Scale Up Series #1 – Natasha Janssens – Transcript

Episode details

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, money, clients, day, started, advisor, workshop, book, learning, understand, business, financial planning, australia, women, sorts, financial, create, financial planners, thought, talk

SPEAKERS

Natasha Janssens, Fraser Jack, Clayton Daniel

 

Fraser Jack 

Welcome to the x y advisor podcast. A global community of financial advisors sharing and learning with one another to drive the positive evolution of financial advice. To get involved, go to x y advisor.com. Or simply download the XY advisor.

 

Clayton Daniel 

portfolio construction of risk management tasks that take you away from where you need to be building relationships with your clients habit instead investments can support you by creating bespoke investment solutions. Outsourcing portfolio and risk management creates efficiencies enabling you to focus on fulfilling the ambitions of both your clients and your business. This podcast has been prepared with tears based on sources believed to be reliable and opions. Honestly held at the applicable day however, it is general information only and we accept no liability for any errors or omissions Be prepared without taking into account the particular objectives financial situation or needs of any investor investing involves risk including the risk of losing capital. It’s important that before acting investors should consider their current circumstances objectives and financial situation the information is appropriate and is to them and consult financial and tax advisers investors should consider PDS available at Aberdeen standard.com before making any investment decision products issued by Aberdeen standard investments Australia limited ABN five nine double 0212336 for Episode Number 204263

 

Fraser Jack 

Hello, welcome to this episode of The X Y advisor podcast. My name is Fraser Jack and I’m joined with me by the founder of women with since Natasha Jensen’s How are you?

 

Natasha Janssens 

I’m well thank you. Thanks for having me.

 

Fraser Jack 

Oh, fantastic coming along. And let’s let’s start with you don’t let’s start with your history and where you were. What why you got into this game in the first place

 

Natasha Janssens 

is my story. It’s been a bit of a evolution. So what you may not tell based on my accent is I’m not a true blue brawn, Ozzy. So I actually migrated to Australia three weeks after my 18th birthday when I fled a warzone in the old Yugoslavia. And he ended up coming here, which had always been my dream to do so but you know, funny how things happen. And as always say careful what you wish for. But I ended up coming here right after I turned 18 and sort of had to hit the ground running with sort of finding my bearings in Australia and sort of learning how to navigate a very different financial system to

 

Clayton Daniel 

what I grew up in.

 

Fraser Jack 

Well, and so tell us about that was that you by yourself or with your family?

 

Natasha Janssens 

It was by myself. So um, yeah, it was a string of circumstances. But I was living in the old Yugoslavia. And in the late 90s, there was a lot of political unrest there. And one day, we were getting bombed by NATO. And so my mother to protect me because we were obviously living near the Capitol, and we had a military airport near us. So we were a main target. So she put me on a bus to sort of leave Belgrade as a way of sort of keeping me safe. And from there, I ended up sort of always being one day ahead of the bombs, and eventually found myself going further north until I crossed the border into Hungary, and few days later found myself locked out. Because the place had been shut down. We’re talking these days, a lot about lock downs and things like that. But for us back then it was for political reasons. And yeah, no, I found myself sort of stuck in Hungary, not knowing anyone in Hungary having unlimited money on me, and not really knowing sort of what to do next. So as luck would have it, my dad had a couple of years prior to that in working in Canberra. So that was the last place really, that I knew. So I focused my efforts on figuring out how I could get here. And yeah, after a little while, I made my way onto a plane. And here I am still in care. But

 

Fraser Jack 

Wow, that’s an incredible story and one of absolute, you know, uncertainty, which is kind of what financial advisors are going through. Now, there’s this whole that that’s not i’m not saying it’s directly comparable, but it’s this, there was a heck of a lot of uncertainty around where you’re going to land and what the outcomes gonna be.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Absolutely, unlike every experience, it’s all relative. But it certainly showed me how much we can achieve when we have now the choice. You know, I had always dreamed of coming to Australia, but on paper, it’s not something that ever looked like was going to be a possibility for me. So but I was just so desperate to sort of get to Australia and to create a better life for myself and my family and my future children, that it was always a massive dream of mine. And with that in mind, that meant that I was desperate to sort of cling on to any slight opportunity, you know, that might arise. So, even before we left Canberra, I had sort of pursued additional studies and I had insisted on during the tertiary entrance exam, which there was no reason for me to do it. Because, you know, we thought I could never afford to come back to study in Australia. But it was just one of those things that I was like, but I just I so desperately want to come here. And I’ll just take any, any inkling of hope. And as it turns out, it was all those little seemingly insignificant decisions and opportunities along the way that I took, that ended up sort of paving the way to make it possible for me to come here. So I always say to my clients, you know, don’t dismiss your dreams and your passions, because if you have that front of mind, then you’ll start to see opportunities come towards you that you otherwise would have dismissed. It’s the same way that I’m sure any one of us when we bought a car was give the example I bought a golf a couple of years ago, until that point, I never realized how many white golf sir on the streets, it’s just, you know, I filter that stuff out. But now because I was focused on it, that’s all I could see. And to me, really, it was the same thing with opportunities for coming to Australia and opportunities for starting a business as well.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I love the reticular Activation System, which notices things and deletes and, and, and gets rid of stuff that you don’t need. So this is an amazing period of your life, obviously, you didn’t have a choice in the way but you then you had to completely start fresh, you had to you know, you had to really put yourself out there to go and create new networks and start again, tell us about that.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yes, so I had when I came here, funnily enough, I started off with studying software development, because I at the time, I was just like, I’m just gonna do whatever it takes to come here and software developers behind the mine, and I went, yeah, go for it. Let’s go and do it. So, you know, it was everything about the journey of where I am today, it was just such a gradual evolution. And yet now when I look back on it, it all served a purpose. And everything happened for a reason. It’s amazing how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. So I fell very much into an accounting career. Because again, that was very much. It was a combination of things that I was good at, but also driven by immigration requirements and those sorts of things. But now, when I look back on it, coming from a country that was in such political and economic turmoil, you know, we had so many so many unpredictable events happen. That it through, developed to me that determination to understand the banking system more, because what I found was that we sort of had, you know, the people who were closely related to banking, who, you know, were creating wealth, they were sort of going well, and then there was the, you know, general public that was really not seeming to have as many options or not much say in sort of what was going on. So I learned very, from a young age to sort of have a curiosity around money and to sort of want to understand how how this financial system works. So one of my earliest money memories is, in the early 90s, in Yugoslavia, we had at the time hyperinflation, I mean, now, these days in Australia, we’re talking about low inflation, or, you know, risks of deflation, we had, you know, very much the opposite thing happening, and that no sooner Did you and your salary than it completely lost value. So it was interesting to see how people were navigating that environment and how they were surviving. But it also taught me that in times of stress, then people will become desperate to do anything to make their money grow or to survive. And that led them to places of being vulnerable to sort of being exploited and taken advantage of. No, no case in point in that was that a private bank had opened up in Yugoslavia, that seemed to be the answer to everyone’s sort of prayers, in that they were offering like these massive sort of interest rates on your saving account, we’re talking like, several 100%, right. And people were so desperate to put their money in that the lines were so long, you had to camp overnight, just to get into deposit your money into this thing. And what happened not long after that, was that it turned out that it was a Ponzi scheme. So those who got in early and got out early, they made a tidy profit. But everyone else ended up losing the money and in some cases, losing their life savings. So for me, that was a massive life lesson, you know, already there about diversification and not just blindly following, what everyone else is doing and all those sorts of things. But it sort of started to sort of foster that sort of curiosity about wanting to be closer to the banking system and understand how everything works. So now when I look at it, it’s no surprise that even though I started with accounting, I eventually landed in the areas of financial planning, because you know, everything was sort of And then position to sort of lead me to get to where I am today,

 

Fraser Jack 

it’s no surprise to me that, you know, knowing your story, and then knowing what you’re doing now and understanding that how focused you are on helping people in a vulnerable situation.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Absolutely. And this is sort of why I’ve taken a very different approach to, for example, someone like Scott paper, you know, barefoot investor that we know has made a massive impact on people in Australia and getting people to take notice of their money. But I’ve always felt, again, that it’s really important for all of us, you know, as advisors, but also with our clients to encourage that critical thinking and to make sure that they understand how everything works, and the reasons behind even if we’re making a recommendation, you know, one of the reasons behind that, so that they’re not just blindly following, you know, on a path that someone else has laid out for them. Because, yeah, there can be a lot of risk and danger even to doing that as well. Yeah,

 

Fraser Jack 

I like the way you said, you know, you mentioned the critical thinking aspect of it. And, and is that the basis, I guess, for everything sort of that you do and teach at the moment?

 

Natasha Janssens 

It absolutely is. So and a lot of it even quite often I’ll find clients coming to me sort of wanting to know, what should I do with my money? What should I be doing at the agent stage where I am? So it’s been a combination of not just teaching them how to sort of think critically, and how to sort of piece that puzzle together, but also to give them that space and permission for them to figure out what is it that’s really important to them? What is it that they want to do, rather than what they should be doing. And you know, and we see a lot of that in Australia, we’re talking about the tall poppy syndrome, you know, everyone sort of being successful, but also wanting to sort of fit in with everyone else as well. So I spend a lot of time trying to get people to figure out what it is their own journey or in their own path. And then we can sort of piece the puzzle together as to how we go and get there. So I always say, if you make sure when you get financial advice that you clear that you’re asking the right question, because otherwise you’ll get the right answer, but to the wrong question.

 

Fraser Jack 

I love the right questions, compensation. That’s that, you know, that’s the definition of coaching to me, you know, it’s coming from, what should I do? or What should we do to what can we do to, you know, what would you want? What do you want to do and allowing the allowing the client to be able to get the information and make some, some form quality decisions based on just using really clever questions?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Exactly. And I think, you know, we’ve come a long way. And advisors talk about I mean, I’m fairly new to the financial planning profession by comparison. But I know a lot of financial planners now talk about, you know, goals based advice. And I’ve gone that step further, as far as talking about values based advice. First, figuring out the values, the things that are really important to us that we’re really passionate about, then we’ll go and break down the goals that sort of evolved from that of what we want to achieve. Because otherwise, what I found is clients will go and create goals. But sometimes they’re limited goals, just based on what they think might be possible for them. And very often, it’s sort of just Well, I’m just doing goals based on what will make other people happy, you know, so that I don’t disappoint other people also that I fit in, and I keep up with what everyone else is doing. So always take it back to, well, what are the values what’s most important to you, and then we can build from there?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. You’re certainly singing from the same hymn book when that one that and the other thing is to, you know, values, create, create goals off the back of values, and they’re certainly not yet financial strategies until well down the track. But let’s let’s have a chat about what you’re doing. Now, you sort of you’ve got a few different aspects to your business, sort of start by just telling us about your business, where it’s located and how you work nationally.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah, so my business is based in Canberra, although these days I say it’s just sort of it’s based online, it’s where everyone is. But I started off a company called cyber financial cyber being actually a Serbian word, which means owl. So when I started off, I wanted to help people, and especially young people sort of to own their home and to be more proactive with the way that they manage their money. So save, I was focused on that sort of bird’s eye view and the owls wisdom and all of that. So I became obviously I’m an accountant, but I became also a licensed mortgage broker, as well as the financial planner. Because these days, there’s so much red tape that was like, Well, if you wanted to talk to people about all of that, well, then you have to be licensed about everything. So that sort of ended up leading me down the path of also doing mortgage broking and financial planning at the same time. But not long after I started my business. I also got pregnant with my first child. And that was really when the new brand of women would sense and perhaps even the secondary business that I came to be, because what happened was I started networking more with my mother’s groups, and that introduced me to the whole sort of idea of Facebook groups and online networking. And what I found was that There were a lot of women who were really wanting to take control of their money, they wanted some financial guidance, but they didn’t really know who to turn to. And they actually found financial planners and even accountants to be very intimidating. So there was a lot of fear of going, which to me as an accountant caught me by surprise. I didn’t realize that, you know, that was sort of blocking them from going and approaching a professional to sort of get some guidance on it. So in absence of that, they would ask in their mother’s groups. And of course, we know that financial planning is heavily male dominated. So that meant that, you know, there wasn’t really quite often there wasn’t anyone in these groups who was qualified to give them the guidance that they need? So with their input, I said, Well, how about we set up a separate group where we can talk about, you know, financial matters, and all of that. And from there, we started to do catch ups at a local cafe in Canberra once a month. And we talked about mortgages, and super, and all those sorts of things. And then when it started to spread, I had women from interstate asking, How can we become a part of this? Can I buy your slides, I can’t get to camera, but I really want to know what you guys are talking about. And so I thought, well, and we had women who weren’t mums who said, Well, I want to be a part of this, too. So yeah, it just sort of grew from there. And I said, Well, in that case, let’s take this whole platform, let’s put it online, and let’s make it open to women everywhere. And that’s how women would since came to me

 

Fraser Jack 

wonderful. So from somebody who, you know, wants to take any slither of opportunity and turn it into something that’s helpful for people Congratulations, but also born out of the fact that, you know, like, trying to provide some scale around this conversation around, you know, being able to offer one to one services to, you know, to your potential clients, and then all of a sudden, you’ll be able to help a lot more people at the same time as trying to, you know, raise a family.

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right, yeah, it’s funny, you’re gonna talk about how all the pieces of the puzzle ended up fitting together, because one of the greatest things that I ever did, surprisingly, was learning and studying software development. You know, I found that that really helped me to get better at breaking down a problem to really get to the core of what it is, and how do I sort of fix it? And how do I get from A to B. But also, that introduced me to the whole idea of business efficiency, and business analytics, and all of that. So how can we be more efficient? And how can we support more people? And in these days, how do we use tech to do all of that? So it all sort of culminated together to sort of helped me create women with sense and then to start learning. I mean, I then fell down the rabbit hole of trying to learn about funnels and webinars and Facebook ads, and how do you do all of this so that you can actually start to make it work and make it profitable and make it efficient at the same time?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, there were some fantastic technology out there that can help people and you know, you don’t have to be a software developer to do it. But it’s certainly a good to understand these things. Don’t tell us about women with sense too, as a community, just sort of give us an overview of what it looks like, as a community, because obviously, it started off as a Facebook group, but it’s grown to so much more.

 

Natasha Janssens 

So it’s, how would I explain it, I mean, it really is a very supportive, and it’s an online and virtual community. So obviously, there is the Facebook group. But I’ve also been very passionate about during, when we were able to sort of live and face to face events, and, and webinars and, and those sorts of things purely from the point of view of doing anything that I can to just get rid of the excuse of saying, I don’t have the time, and I don’t have the money to look after my money to get it, how do we go and do it. So that fit into my love of travel as well. So I was able to start doing workshops in Canberra, and then you know, go to Sydney and get a Melbourne and hopefully, you know, once COVID and lockdown is over, we can sort of start to extend it even further. But what I do love about it is that it’s very supportive. I know, in a lot of groups, you know, there can be a lot of judgment, that can be a lot of bullying, and that sort of thing. And I haven’t really seen that, you know, with this community, everyone is really helpful and supportive to each other and respectful from that point of view, which is, which is a really important thing, because we attach a lot of emotion to money. And that can be a lot of, you know, shame and judgment and guilt and all that that comes from it, we really don’t need other people to go and pile on. But the beauty of the internet being what it is, is that it also enables people who wouldn’t normally reach out to support to go and do it because they have the option of anonymity. So you know, they can go and send me a message or we can post something anonymously on their behalf, so that they’re still getting the support from everyone else without no one, you know, really knowing who they are. And the amazing thing that happens when people share is you start to realize it’s not just you, you start to realize everyone else is facing the same challenge. Everyone else has the exact same question and suddenly, the stuff that was blocking you as far as saying but it’s only me who has a tough or it’s only me, that has this silly question or whatever that starts to dissipate. And it makes them feel that much more confident and empowered to sort of go Okay, well, if that’s not a silly question, maybe now I can go and ask this. And it’s amazing what happens from there. Yeah, it’s

 

Fraser Jack 

breaking down that taboo, isn’t it about money and not being able to talk about and that and to be able to do it in a way where you know, to start with, nobody really knows who you are, or where the group of intellect community is fantastic. And all these minor stepping stones along the way, because it doesn’t just stop there, obviously, you know, it’s going to go somewhere else. And it could even lead to, you know, somebody walking into a financial advisors office.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Absolutely. So it’s this is the sort of stuff that really, I don’t know, lights me up, it makes me excited to get up in the morning, because you realize that you’re making a real difference to people’s lives. And they’ll say, Well, you know, because I heard about this, or because I read that I’ve now gone and managed to avoid facing bankruptcy, or I’ve managed to go and leave an abusive relationship, or I’ve managed to go and invest for the first time and actually, you know, feel excited by and understand what I’m doing rather than, you know, feeling fearful about it and sort of wanting to jump out the second it goes wrong.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. And it wasn’t a Ponzi scheme at the same time.

 

Natasha Janssens 

No, that’s it. And that’s, you know, that’s the challenge. And I think, oh, gosh, our role as financial advisors and educators is just going to be ever growing because the financial domain and technology is evolving so quickly, so that we’re now going to have to be well in our clients are going to have to be even savea to sort of know, what’s an app that safe. And what’s the platform that safe to invest through? You know, oh, gosh, there’s a new app, which now is a Superfund, okay, is that a safe thing for me to be going and putting my money to, you know, the number of times that I’ve heard people say, Oh, I went and jumped into this thing, because that marketing was so good that, you know, the message just got to me, but now I’m really second guessing that decision. So yeah, it’s gonna be challenging, but that’ll keep us keep us happy and employed.

 

Fraser Jack 

Exactly. Now, you mentioned the workshop earlier, which I think is a really unique way for financial advisors to sort of scale up what they’re doing. And in a way, how did you go about organizing those workshop? How do you get people along? And what sort of tips to give to financial planners thinking about doing workshops? You know, assuming that we’re COVID, safe, and all that past that?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah, that’s it? Well, because you can, you know, thankfully, these days, you can do a workshop virtually as well. But there’s such a different energy from people being in the same room together that I didn’t really appreciate, until I wasn’t able to do it, you start to see the difference in how people engage online versus face to face. But look, I had never really done workshops before, it was one of those things that, you know, we did very small ones, when we Mouritsen started with it, like 10 or 15 people. And then I ran events where we had like over 100 people going through it. So each of those was a real sort of learning experiences to Okay, what’s the dynamic? How does that presentation flow? What questions work well, and how do you engage best with people to sort of find the right size for it. But I did find that it was a challenge to get people along to it. And this is one of those things where people want it. And everything that I’ve built, it’s always been with everyone’s feedback to say, Well, you know, is this something that you’re asking me to do? Yes, absolutely. Because the same thing with the online courses, as well as with the workshop as to how hard it is, to get people to as much as they get Yes, this is an I love it. And yes, I’m there for and you get Okay, well, we’re selling tickets, and it’s in two weeks. And again, yeah, tell me if I can make that. And to me, that was the biggest surprise that I thought, okay, they really work this, you know, and I’ve done it in so many new different ways. But it’s really hard these days, to get people to commit to something and to show up, when we all know it, how many webinars have we signed up to that, you know, we then we came for it, we have every intention to come to it. But you know, a work meeting or something else got in the way. So, to me, that was the really the biggest surprise and the biggest learning. So I think if you’re going to start out with doing a workshop, it’s always worthwhile to sort of start small and test it out. Because a lot of the structure of the workshop, you’re not really going to be able to gauge until you’re in there with the clients and seeing how people respond to the activities and how they interact with it. I think it’s also great to have people that you can partner up with so that you can support each other and sort of leverage of each other’s networks just to make it easier to sort of spread the word and get people along to it. But I think it’s a really great way. It’s a great way of delivering value to lots of people. It’s a great way of making things cost effective. And it’s a really great way of building those relationships and getting clients sort of getting them comfortable with you and getting to know you before they take the next step of working with.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s a really good call about getting other people into to present I’ve seen some, some planners do some really good work in that space where they’re getting other individuals in and and teaming up and all inviting them works and coming along. And that way, they’re really you meeting in, you know, your cross meeting new portions of people, just on this idea that, you know, people have this fantastic intention to show up and then something else is steals the priority and then becomes more important. How have you overcome that? In a way? Is it just a matter of getting more invites out there? Or how have you have you made the turning up and showing up and paying the cost of priority?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah, look, there’s a few things sort of tricks of the trade that you won’t learn along the way. One of it is, is that if there is a webinar or promote promotion, you have to give people a time frame to make sure that they act, I used to make the mistake in the beginning of you know, doing a fantastic presentation, and then going, you know, whenever you’re ready to work with me, I’m here, and that I learned that then people will sit on that and not actually do anything with it. So I think it’s really good to have a special offer or something that’s going to entice them to go, you know what, I have to make a decision, and I have to do it. Now. The other thing as well, that I found is like getting people to actually pay for something that’s a way of getting them to commit to turning up to it. Because the danger with free events, for example, is that because it’s free, I haven’t had to make any sort of real commitment that I’ll show up, show up. And that’s what we see with webinars, it’s free, it’s whatever. So I’ll just sign up to it. And then I’ll really five seconds later, I’ll forget about it. So to me, even if it’s a low cost event, or something about getting them to actually purchase, it will make sure that they go and commit to showing up and putting in the time and effort.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yes, some good tips there. And also, you know, you mentioned that the time frame or giving people a reason maybe even selling out, not in a limited amount of seats available. I suppose that’s also good when you’ve got a smaller venue.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yes, exactly. So, and this is sort of where it’s about getting the messaging, right, so that you get them excited, and you’re building up the anticipation for it. Even simple things like a fan, where do you direct the traffic for it? I know people often when they’re promoting events, they’re directing people straight to the website. The challenge with that is, once I’ve gone and looked at your website, it becomes really hard for you to go and remind me to go back to it. So things like if your network is on Facebook, as mine is a lot, I found that by promoting an actual event within which the link is there, people then mark it as interested. They’ll have it there as a placeholder, and there’s opportunity there for me to continue marketing to them, and getting their interest getting them to share as they start seeing more people interested in it, that’s now going to drive that fear of missing out. And it’s the social proof. Oh, well, this think this is a worthwhile thing. So I might go along to that. So there were all, you know, little things that I just had to learn through trial and error and saying sort of what what took and what didn’t? Yeah, that’s

 

Fraser Jack 

really interesting using Facebook, for those types of events and see who’s who’s interested in or more, or maybe in the moment, you know, get their email addresses or give them more information. That’s, that’s really cool. Thank you for that. And also, when it comes to charging, sort of talked about, have you done some research on a price range or in a length of time that you’ve got the the eventful

 

Natasha Janssens 

I have, and it’s really interesting, I used to come in. And I had this belief that it had to be as low cost as possible, because it’s so unaffordable, so hard for people, and we need to make it as affordable as possible. And in actual fact, what I found, I actually found that easier to sell tickets to events that cost more, then the low cost ones. Now part of that may well be that because it’s low cost, people assume that they’re going to be sold to, or they assume there will be poor quality and those sorts of things. You also then look at what’s the demographic that you’re targeting, as well with that in that often if it’s too low cost, it’ll attract those that are just trying to get as many freebies as they can, but then weren’t ever really interested in going and becoming a financial planning client or something like that. So again, it becomes about trial and error. But at the end of the day, it’s that key message, you know, it has to be, you know, there has to be a clear, motivated reason, they have to be clear on what is in it for them. What am I going to get out of going this, like, it’s great that the speakers are experienced, I expect no less, that the speakers will be experienced, but I need to understand how is my life gonna change because I’ve gotten instant, this hour or this day with you. And this is where I really love social media from that point of view. Because tools like Facebook, make it very easy for you to test your marketing message and start to see in like real time, what is resonating with people and what isn’t. So you can go and take a campaign you can test an image. And quite often what I’ll do is I’ll have the same script, but I’ll just change the first line. And it’s amazing how much even just that first line had changed. How many people were going to come to this event versus the number who sort of went Buy it and sort of walk path. So you know, even if, regardless of where you’re marketing it, I think it’s useful to utilize social media in that way, as far as just market testing and sort of getting that instant feedback before you go and build a workshop or start really marketing that event.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fantastic tips. And I do like the idea of pricing for value to show that there is going to be value in the workshop, not just pricing for trying to get bums on seats. Thank you Now Now let’s talk about so you run the workshop. And obviously, the workshop that you’ve ran is the, you know, the money power workshops, the show the Wonder Woman, whatever you call it, the Wonder Woman money power works.

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right

 

Fraser Jack 

there off the back of the book that you’ve written. Want to give us a quick chat about that?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yes. So gosh, I can’t believe it’s already been two years, my goodness. So two years ago, I self published and released a book called Wonder Woman’s Guide to money, which was really aimed at, you know, the modern busy day Wonder Woman, the women that are juggling so many things that we say I don’t know how she does it, she’s a wonder woman. And the challenge for those Wonder Women is that it’s hard to find time to deal with financial matters, because it’s like, there’s so many demands on their time, something has to give, and the easiest thing to give is something that’s not immediately pressing, you know, things like are super well, I can, you know, that’s a fair way away, I can just go and do it that another time. So I thought, What’s another way that I can get these these women engaged and get their attention and get them to learn about money in a very easy and time efficient manner. So the book became it. And then off the back of that, what it really did was free me up to talk more about in the workshops about the psychology of money and how we make financial decisions, because, as you will know, you know, financial IQ and financial EQ, they go hand in hand. And prior to having the book I sort of was, I didn’t even realize that at the time, but I was a bit restricted and sort of wanting to teach people as much practical information as I could. So it’s almost like embodying them with all this information that can become overwhelming. But having it in the book form sort of meant that I could say, well, you can just reference the book, and go and check out the chapter on mortgages. But today, let’s talk about something even more exciting. And yeah, and so that’s sort of what fit into the Wonder Woman’s money power workshops. And yeah, I’m really thrilled with how that’s been going.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Now, a couple of quick questions on the book, as in if somebody wants to write a book, talk us through that self publishing process. lol, did it take you to write up? Did you just lock yourself away? Or was it something you’ve been working on for a while?

 

Natasha Janssens 

It was really interesting, because I’ve been saying for a little while now that I was going to do a book and even now when I look back on it from me committing to actually doing it, it the entire process, it took about a year to go through it because there were a few rounds of edits. And then you go through the whole cover design and all that by the time it’s published. So now that I know that I was like, wow, you know, lucky, just as well that I did did it when I said I was gonna do and I remember when I started on the journey guy, oh, you know, I can knock over a book in a month. Yeah. Maybe I couldn’t, but the quality of it where there would have been two views.

 

Fraser Jack 

A blog, maybe?

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right. So and that was a thing, every single time I had a sort of deadline to get back to publisher with the next round of it, it was always down to the wire, because I was always, you know, there was so many other demands that I had client work, and everything else or time would just run away from me. So that’s why I was really glad that I had committed to it and actually engaged someone to support me with it, and was like, Alright, well, now I have deadlines, there has to happen the other way around. But what worked in my favor was that I already had a ton of content. You know, I had a whole lot of blogs that I’ve been running for years, I had online courses that had been transcribed, so all of the information was there, which meant that I was able to get someone to start to just cut it all together. And then just with each round of edits, it just became more and more refined. And then finally it became a finished book. So I’d say if you’re thinking of doing it, absolutely, just be prepared for the time involved. And also be clear about why you’re doing it. So for me, it was about a getting the information out to the clients, but also because I wanted to take the next step of starting to do corporate workshops and corporate staking and those sorts of things. So that book was a tool to help me in that process. If you’re doing it because you want to become a Scott pike best seller. You know, just again, that’s fine to have that goal but then recognize that Scott pipe had, I don’t know how many people know it. He had previously self released a book I think 10 or 15 years ago. So but he didn’t have a list. He didn’t have the audience. So he learned from that and then spent years building up the list so that when He, next time released it, it sort of went gangbusters. So you know, as we say to our clients be clear on what it is and why you’re doing it. And then you can line up with the ducks from that. I see too many people wanting to publish, because, you know, we might think that it’s a way then either of quickly raising our profile or making money from the book sells. But really, these days, there’s not really any money to be made. Unless you are a Scott paper style sort of bookseller, then you’ll be raking in the millions. But otherwise, it’s there’s lots of other reasons to publish the books. But it’s not necessarily as profitable adventure as someone might think,

 

Fraser Jack 

yes, I think I’ve heard that before a few times, you’re not you’re not doing it to sell lots of copies. Now, you mentioned that you had a couple of online courses before the book, and then you had a list the transcriptions done from those tell us about those online courses.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah. So the first course which very much fit into the book itself is called Making Sense of money. So it was a 12 week online program, which really is financial planning one on one, so getting people to go from the stages of goal setting to then managing their cash flow, and then prompting them to go and look at all the other areas of their finances like reviewing their life insurances, their estate plan, their superannuation, and putting a plan for investing. The other course that I did, which was a low cost sort, of course, we used to call it as a tripwire was sentence instability, which is just a two week, money mindset and budgeting course, are really aimed at those people who are struggling with their cash flow and budget, just talking them each day through one simple thing that they can do, just to help shift their spending habits. So it might be something like going and reviewing and journaling, just keeping a journal of where they’re spending their money day to day so that they can understand what habits they have, we might not even realize how much we are creatures or habits until we sort of put pen to paper and have a look and go Oh, wow. Okay, so I do spend this amount every morning, you know, going and having a coffee, and then meeting friends for lunch and so on.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, wonderful. Now, you’ve obviously done some pretty intense online marketing stuff, because just the just the use of the word tripwire tells me that you’ve done some really intense stuff. So for those that don’t know what the tripwire is, obviously, it’s just a product for, you know, not necessarily for profit, but to try and get hold of someone like it’s a small, very low cost easy decision, the very first product to purchase before you sell them the next course.

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right. So it was that whole idea that, you know, how are you going to build a list? So you start off with, you know, having something valuable, that’s free that you can offer to people in exchange for the email address. And then I was really just experimenting with, you know, how do we then go about it. So there’s those schools of thought that say, Well, you know, straight after they’ve done that, you want to encourage them to make a purchase from you. So you might make it a $1, or a $7, or something like that course, or an E book that they can purchase just to sort of get the ball rolling from that point of view. So yeah, I’ve spent a lot of time over the years, just getting an understanding of how that works. And just really learning it for myself and, you know, taking joy in experimenting, and testing and measuring, which is ultimately what the

 

Fraser Jack 

tech these days enables you to do To test and measure. Now, I just want to also mention the fact that you’ve done an amazing job on naming your products. And when I say production, your courses, your book, those sorts of things you haven’t once measured, mentioned, you know, a financial strategy, or, you know, a type of product, you know, we’re not talking about superannuation, and we’re not talking about investments, we’re talking about some really smart, you know, Sense and Sensibility, making sense with money real consumer focused, or you know, that the whole user experience scenario things that the consumer, the end user is actually, you know, thinking in their own head.

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right. So again, these are not things that I knew sort of starting out, but I did spend a lot of time and understanding the branding and the marketing message, and you know, what the business is going to stand for, and really understanding the clients and you know, what’s the best way to engage with them. So if they find that, you know, and it’s even down to how I present myself and the clothes that I wear, and because again, if I understand that my target market is, you know, feeling intimidated by you know, someone in a suit and financial matters, well, then the worst thing that I can do is come across to them like that. And if I use words like superannuation and missing and things that are freaking them out and triggering them, that’s really not going to encourage them to go and take the next step. So yeah, I spent a lot of time learning how to effectively communicate, and even have that translate into the way that I write the blogs and articles these days as well. It’s not the way I would have written it once upon a time, but I’ve learned how to speak in a way that will actually resonate with with my clients rather than it resonating with me and my colleagues.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, exactly. Right. Now, you mentioned blogs and articles and obviously you produce a lot of blogs and articles how long you’ve been doing it for and how often do you publish

 

Natasha Janssens 

Goodness me. So I’ve been doing it since the very beginning. So since women with since launched in 2016, I’ve just been a content machine. These days, I do a lot of podcast interviews and media interviews and those sorts of things as well. And all of that has really helped with the business’s online presence and Google rankings. So these are the things that started to happen. Before I even understood what SEO was. I just thought, What is a way that I can start to reach more people and get more of a message in the community. So I focused on, you know, responding in new utilizing websites like source bottle, where, you know, journalists will often go and call out for media comments. So I was very actively engaged on that. And now it’s at the point where people know me. So now when they’re asked to write an article, they’ll think about me and give me a call and say, I’m working on this, would you mind to contribute? So during all of that has really helped a lot with the online presence. I know. A lot of people are focused on, you know, they’d love to be on radio or on TV, and I’ve done all those things. But what I found is that those sorts of interviews are great for the ego, they’re not really good for growing your business. Because, you know, again, someone hears about you on the TV, whether or not they’re going Google is a different thing. But having blogs and constant articles that are going to be shared in places where your name and your business name is quoting, that really makes a big difference when someone goes to Google for that particular area of advice, the topic of it thereafter, to increase the odds of your name popping up and being found.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, this is a really interesting one that the value of the link, right because obviously read a blog, it’s very easy. There’s a highlighted piece there, it says is Natasha, and you can click on that and you move through but you’re absolutely right. If I’m, if I’m driving in the car, and I hear it on the radio, or even on a podcast, it’s very difficult to then stop and remember what it was I was supposed to be googling.

 

Natasha Janssens 

No, that’s right. So it’s, again, it’s one of those things that we go and spend so much time doing, I remember when I first started in business going and putting out an ad in the paper, and we just sort of assumed, oh, someone will see it. And the first thing they’ll do is they’ll take action. But that is not what happens. And when I think about myself, how many things do I hear about an a marketer to? I don’t always, you know, drop what I’m doing to go and do I have to have been prompted a few times. So that’s sort of where that brand awareness and making sure that you know you are writing articles, you’ve been quoted by different people, people are sharing that information. If it pops up, then enough times, then when they reach the point where they are ready to take action, they’ll remember and they’ll come to you.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, so I always come back, he keeps coming back to this critical thinking idea, right? Is it? Are you doing? Are you doing this, you know, TV sock slot for the ego? Or are you doing it for a connection and somebody to actually get to click back and start a conversation with you really

 

Natasha Janssens 

interesting. And they’re all lessons that come from experience? You know, I just used to assume all well, if you’re on TV, how many more people see you, you know, that’s got to be the ticket. And then you do it and you realize, oh, gosh, I didn’t even get a single phone call. Okay, and then you talk to other people, and you’re fine. Oh, okay, they had the exact same thing happen. So you know, the only way really, that you’ll learn any of this is through, you know, trial and error. So again, don’t, don’t put yourself down if you’ve gone and tried something I know, again, on social media people go on, but I don’t have much of a media form following or I did a Facebook post and no one clicked or engaged on it. That’s okay. A lot of what we have to understand is that you do a Facebook post, if you only have 100 people following probably only one person saw that. And once you learn the stats, and you realize, well, only 3% of people who see something will actually take action, well, then it’s not about you, it’s not your fault that you did a Facebook post and no one engaged with it. It’s just the numbers didn’t stack up.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s a really good one to remember the 3%. Now, I know that you’ve got a lot of calculators on your website, I just, I’m just interested to see, when people come to your website, do they engage with those calculators? Is it something you’ve seen, like, traffic on from your website? Is it I’m just trying to think of my financial advisors point of view to have calculators on their website?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah, look, it’s a handy tool that all later go and point clients to and direct them to because the main idea behind women with sensors, I want it to be a go to resource so that if there was a problem you were trying to solve, if it’s financially related, I want you to go there to go and fix it. But it’s not the thing that will drive traffic to. And it’s really fascinating to see the sorts of articles and things that people are usually picking up on, but often searches around properties such as around budgeting, those sorts of things. So it’s usually those blogs and articles that tend to have the highest click rate and the most traffic going to them rather than the calculators but I still think that it’s valuable to have those things on there. Because once they’ve consumed some other content, hopefully then this their calculators are helping them spend more time and continue to engage with you.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, the calculators to me seem like a smaller part. The actual physical calculation seems like a small part then the emotional decision making piece that needs take place in the mind. Really? Yeah. I wanted to talk about the being the certified money Coach, what sort of led you into that? And how did you go about it?

 

Natasha Janssens 

So I had been looking for something along those lines for quite a while now. Because the more I worked with clients, the more I became curious about learning more about behavioral economics and behavioral finance, you know, because I thought, gosh, I’ve sat with these clients, I’ve told them what the answer is, you know, they’ve gotten asked for something and there’s still no getting taking action, you know, they wanted to switch super funds, or they wanted to have an insurance policy. And here it is on a silver platter, and why aren’t they taking action, what’s going on? So I started to learn more about the psychology of money. And I thought, I really want to be trained more, you know, properly in how to do that. Self Directed myself a lot through books and all that, but I want some more formal training. And I couldn’t find anything in Australia. Obviously, there were life coaches and life coaching certifications, but nothing specifically around money. And then it was actually my colleague, Leisha Dell, who reached out to me and said, she’d been doing work for the money Coaching Institute in the USA, and that the founder of it was coming to Australia to do some training. And I thought, absolutely Sign me up. Like, I’m all there for it. And truth be told, at least for my business, it was the best decision that I made, because it was literally like the last missing piece of the puzzle. And once I started offering that coaching service, together with sort of the financial education and financial planning components, that just made things flow so much better, because it meant that when clients came in, and they had a financial problem, or they had a particular goal that they were trying to work towards, we’re also able to impact very quickly, things along the way that may have been sabotaging their progress or fears that may have been holding the back so that now you know what now they’re actually going and following through and it’s really fantastic to see

 

Fraser Jack 

you I know in that program, there’s a lot to do with the idea that you know, everyone’s different. And there’s a there’s a number of different archetypes of different ways people think and then based on the way that they are should be, you know, you should be approaching in a different way to give us a bit of an overview of it.

 

Natasha Janssens 

That’s right, so the program is based on, first of all, helping people to understand how our habits are formed around money, which really, for all of us is formed through childhood and the experience that we observed around us. So if as a kid, we saw mum and dad arguing over money or feeling stressed about money or hiding from the debt collectors, that’s going to have a massive impact on us as children, which will then go and take on through to adulthood. So the program starts with getting people to understand their own money history and helping them start to pull out and identify those patterns of behavior and patterns of beliefs that are starting to emerge. And then we help them to group those emotions, as you set rightly say, we talked about in terms of archetypes. And what that does is helps the clients to a group those patterns of behavior and an easy way to understand, but it also makes it a lot easier for us to sort of distance ourselves from it. Because if we identify ourselves as being you know, a particular archetype, it then becomes very easy for us to judge ourselves, we get defensive, and we sort of want to push it away. But when you start to recognize that, you know, and talk about in terms of what’s an archetype, it’s not you, it’s just a pattern of behavior and makes it a lot easier for people to understand and a lot easier for them to address. So the main premise around money coaching is that if you want to be financially successful and progressive, you want to bring out the traits of what we call the money magician, which is the part of us that not only are we hard workers, and in money coaching, we talk about it as a warrior, the warrior is that hard working archetype. But the problem when you’re a warrior is that it can be hard to stop, you can become a workaholic, or not knowing when to let go. But the magician is equally sort of dreamer, and warrior, we talk about dreamers as being those artistics, the creators among us. But finding that balance where not only do I have a clear vision for what I want to achieve, and I’m willing to work to go and get it. But I have a sense of belief and comfort that I’ll actually be able to go and do it. And that’s a hard thing to sort of get clients to get to that point because they may be hard working or they may have a goal. But then it’s either they’ll fall into a victim sort of pattern where they’ll say yeah, but and there’s always going to be another problem. Or we’ve all come across the what we call the innocent archetype, which are the people that just struggle to make any sort of decision. And in the end, they’ll get too overwhelmed and they’ll bury their head in the sand. And we talk about it. We also have the tyrant archetype, which are the people who are very much about that status and the control that money gives them. And then we also have the full archetype which are those who make very impulsive decisions and the four might be, you know, they might have a tendency towards retail therapy or something like that. But it could also be gambling, it could be being impulsive with starting up a business, the business failing and then then diving right into the next thing. The other power with you as a financial adviser understanding these characteristics and patterns of behavior that clients that are conform into, if you can go and recognize that you can adjust the way that you talk to them about money, and you can adjust the strategy they to better enable them to actually follow through and achieve their goals. So if you understand that someone, for example, grew up in a home, where they had parents who had an alcohol or a gambling addiction, and now they’re fearful of ever losing money, if you have an appreciation for that you can better help them to structure their finances in such a way so that that fear and anxiety isn’t such a trigger for them. But the same token, if you know that there’s a client that really struggles with making financial decisions, you approaching them and giving them five different things that they have to go and do right now. Look at your super, and the insurance and all of that you will overwhelm them. And then they won’t do anything all over again. So it’s a really powerful tool. As a starting point, I would suggest looking up Deborah price in the money Coaching Institute, she has a couple of great books that are also aimed at individuals as well as couples, just to help you understand more about the psychology of money and how that is sort of represented in the way that we we manage our finances day to day. Yes, I’m

 

Fraser Jack 

very, very valuable insights there in the last few sentences. And I think planners will be able to turn around and look at this. And listen to that and say I recognize all those things in different clients from time to time. And it could it could just be that you know, sometimes sometimes it the fool and other times they the magician, but thank you so much for sharing that now. Um, what have you got planned for the future? Where you know, like, obviously the last, you know, you’ve done so much over the last couple of years from now sort of looking forward to 2021? What are your thoughts and plans on the future? Yeah, so

 

Natasha Janssens 

I’m one of those people, I struggle to sit still I like to be busy. So I’m from a women would sense point of view down the track, what I’m really interested in doing is rolling out some more couples coaching around money to help people to navigate and minimize the arguments that they have around money. But I’m also working on a very exciting project at the moment, which is a sort of what women would send spin off, you might like to call it, which is called advice with sense. So it’s all about looking at how do we bridge the gap at the moment that’s there, not just from an affordability of advice point of view. But I feel like there’s a gap at the moment between consumers and advisors. And so on the one hand, we have consumers that are constantly wanting more value they’re wanting more engagement from from their advisors and more of an ongoing relationship. But at the same time, the poor advisor, I would say we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, there’s been so much red tape, so many changes in regulation, the costs of running a financial planning, business are growing exponentially. So again, I can’t be everywhere at once, like, how do we go and do this? How do we keep our clients happy, and you know, stay afloat and stay stay sane. So the idea there is that advice would send Swan support financial planners by basically instead of the advisor having to become an expert and create an online course and start driving that online community engagement, will be able to do that for them and run a VIP client service, that then basically maintains that relationship for them so that then at every step along the way, when the client needs the advisor support, they sort of get directed back to them. Whereas at the moment, they’ll sort of go off into the ether, they’ll land into a Facebook group, they’ll be told lots of different things. And who knows, then you know what they’ll end up doing with that information. So in this way, you’re sort of managing to sort of maintain that relationship more directly with them and better support them on their journey. So yeah, you different,

 

Fraser Jack 

there are a couple of great points that you write, you know, your clients are going to join Facebook groups, they are going to be part of the conversations outside of the the advisor. So it’s always good to be able to then offer that and then know what’s coming in at it. And also that not all planners and advisors are great at building online courses, they might be just that the thing they want to do is just spend time in front of their clients. And so to be able to outsource that, or really just bring something that’s already created as a great idea.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Oh, thank you. Yeah, look, I mean, I found the same sort of thing. It’s practically a full time gig going and doing all of that. So when can you manage to do that? And not just with creating the content, but getting confident and comfortable with speaking and, you know, being engaging in the way that you deliver the content and communicate that that in itself is a piece of work and not everyone you know, some of us and I say us as well. I’m always an introvert a while to sort of get comfortable speaking in front of the camera. So, you know, what do you do in those cases? You know, how, how can you be everywhere at once. So hopefully this will help to support everyone and sort of start to bridge some of that divide. That’s been their

 

Fraser Jack 

brilliant thing. You know, the touch if somebody wants to continue this conversation, what’s the best way they can get hold of you?

 

Natasha Janssens 

Check out my website, women with sense.com that are you on there, there’s a contact us button and you can drop me a line or if you like Tasha women with sensor Comdata you and you can send me an email directly.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. And if you ever listen to this podcast and you wanted to join a conversation or be part of it, then jump over to the x y advisor app and start a comment or conversation and we’d be more than happy to jump in there and and comment and be part of it. So Natasha, thank you so much for giving up your time and and sharing with us today. Your story what your incredible story, by the way. Really appreciate it.

 

Natasha Janssens 

Yeah, my absolute pleasure. I

 

 

really enjoyed it. Thank you.

 

Fraser Jack 

Well, there you have it, peeps, another episode of The X Y advisor podcast coming to you. It’s Fraser Jack here. And of course, I’m here with Emily and we’re about to do some shout outs. Hey, Fraser, how’s it going? My

 

 

favorite day of the week?

 

Fraser Jack 

That’s pretty good time of the week, isn’t it? We get to put some praise on people and enjoy it.

 

 

I love it. I love it. Okay, first shout out for today goes to x y advisor, Chris Smith, he just popped a really great discussion. And this has come up multiple times in the past. So I love when this gets repurposed or rehash that he has said he’s finally looking to revamp his ongoing services packages after about 10 years of not necessarily giving it too much TLC. And he put it out to the community. And he wanted to know what what is everyone else doing? What are other advisors doing to well their clients and create a really great ongoing experience. And there’s already been a handful of great comments. So shout out to the advisors, Dylan, Martin, Clint nice, and a few others who have already shared what they’re doing at the moment. And it’s just a real testament to that whole concept of collaboration over competition. I talked about it all the time, but to see it in action, where advisors aren’t recreating the wheel, and helping each other out is awesome.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, absolutely. And there are some really interesting comments on there. I’m keen to find out a bit more about some of the the surveys that have taken place. And of course, you know, my favorite idea is just to start a podcast I think, might be a little bit biased here. But podcasting for your clients is a great opportunity to add to your your yearly proposition of what you provide to your clients. So anyway, big shout out to Chris well done Maple sounds like a conversation and to everybody who got involved.