#8 Lisa Linfield – Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, business, clients, financial planners, financial planning, money, person, life, book, podcast, lisa, learn, teaching, question, started, decision, corporate, years, world, helpers

SPEAKERS

Lisa Linfield, Louis van der Merwe

Louis van der Merwe 

Welcome to the financial planners South Africa podcast, a show dedicated to driving the positive evolution of financial advice, specifically in South Africa to join a global community of financial advisors, sharing and learning with one another to drive the positive evolution of financial advice. Head to x y advisor.com. volumetrics is thrilled to bring you this podcast in support of our common passion, people and the evolution of wealth management. A Global Business links precision investment management to expert financial advice through partnerships and technology. portfolio matrix is an authorized financial services provider visual, interactive, meaningful, productive for values underpinning acid map, a financial planning platform loved by advisors and their clients. This episode is proudly brought to you by Alan gray. They say it’s important to live for today. Although that might be true. We can’t forget to plan for tomorrow. There’s a lot of left of all, Alan gray is an authorized financial services provider. Visit w w w dot Ellen gray.co today to learn how we build long term wealth for clients. Good afternoon to yet another episode of financial planners, South Africa. I’m really excited for my guest today. Her name is Lisa Lynn Feld. And she is a woman on a mission. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today. Ali, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being on your show. If you’re in South Africa, and Lisa hasn’t popped up on your radar, I’m not sure we which rock people have been living under because you have this really successful practice. You’ve got a podcast that’s on a mission to reach a million women. You’ve got a book that’s out. How on earth do you get time for everything? And

Lisa Linfield 

it’s an interesting question. Um, I don’t know, I guess, I guess a lot of it relates to how you prioritize your time. And I, I love my clients that I see face to face that whose finances I manage. And I also have this passion to teach people. So I kind of I guess, trying to integrate the whole thing. I don’t know, I have these three amazing, beautiful little girls. And you know, my husband. And so we just find the time I guess, you know, I’m learning a lot about time management at the moment. Let’s just say

Louis van der Merwe 

I love that you saying that kind of priority management almost more important, and then you know that time takes care of itself. Absolutely. Say you’re a certified financial planner. But you didn’t start off this journey straight into financial planning. Can you give us a brief background of kind of how you got into financial planning in the first place,

Lisa Linfield 

Louis, that is a crazy story. So I have probably the most Higgledy Piggledy Piggledy career known to humankind. I am a my first undergraduate degree straight out of school was that I’m a physiotherapist. And I knew immediately that that wasn’t the right thing for me. And but I was on scholarship. My dad’s business had gone under and I was on scholarship. And so the choice was get a university degree on not nothing at all. And so I committed to it, and I got it. And I got an opportunity at the Sports Science Institute in Cape Town. It was kind of like that moment of do I move to Cape Town? Or do I follow my passion, which is business and money and finance and things like that. So very soon afterwards, I moved into banking. I spent a year practicing afterwards, and I and then I moved into banking. And that led to effectively a 20 year, find a career in financial services. And it was fun, and it was amazing. And I love my colleagues and I worked in the UK and I work for Citigroup and I, hey, FX Bank of Scotland and I did these amazing things. And I traveled and then I came back to South Africa. And I joined the financial institution here and I worked for nine years there in the bank. And it was fun, and it was great. And I followed an amazingly inspiring bus too to life and Investments company. And I guess it was there that I really got close to it. So whilst I had managed large business units, and I’ve been in charge of sales, both overseas and here in South Africa that took financial planners into the round that were part of this the force effectively. I’d never really kind of got one on one and got close and intimate to financial planning, and then undertook The beacom honors in financial planning from uj. And I totally fell in love with it. So I am. Now there’s a word for it some fancy word that someone was telling me the other day. But as a person who loves learning, so I have quite a quite a few degrees. And I’ve attended a number of institutions around us around this little world of ours. And this to me, was just the most useful thing I had done. And every single time, I’d learned something, and I phoned someone up and I’d say, Hey, you know, you’ve just gone through a divorce, or you just, you know, have minor children or something. And I felt that I could use it. And for the first time, and you know, I always talk about one of the signposts in life that helped us know where we should be going, is synchronicity. And at that time, the synchronicity, a lot of things converge together. And I really wanted to start my own business. I had one of those kind of real aha moments when I had managed to attend one of my eldest daughter, Jesus netball matches in an entire season. And I thought to myself, well, what happens when the 20s come? Am I okay? To say to my girls, are what one of your NATO matches every three years, you know, because the three goals one a year, and I just couldn’t, the whole thing wasn’t resonating with me. And I was getting that midlife crisis, or whatever they call where you want to have a life of purpose. And I wanted to change people’s lives. And so I, I fell in love with the content of it, I fell in love with the potential of changing people’s lives. And I fell in love with the idea of being able to run my own business, where I could work every hour in the evening, or Saturdays, whatever. And I could go guilt free, and watch my little girls as they progress through life. So I guess it all came together. And yeah, it was a it was a phenomenal transition. And I’m so glad I was brave enough to step off the corporate ladder and the corporate paycheck, to start my own business,

Louis van der Merwe 

you’re well done, I’m taking that leap. And it’s interesting to me to think that, you know, often we think of these two as mutually exclusive, you know, you can either go and change the world, or you can get to see your kids grow up. But you found a way of combining those two, was financial planning, you know, your only option at that point, or was it kind of a clear, you know, this is the route that I’m going to follow to be able to get to these dreams, because it feels like these these, like pivotal decisions that we make in our lives, you know, like you had to say, either Capetown, or this degree in finance, you know, and picking financial planning, was that the same type of decision?

Lisa Linfield 

No, I guess, you know, that first major fork in the road was, I had a weekend to get back to get back to them. The the team was going to support to African Australia, and they were leaving on a Sunday night. And so effectively, I had until the Sunday night to get back to them. And so it really forced a decision. And sometimes we actually know what the decision we need to make is, but time and people and noise, what I call in my book, the world out there, steers us on a different path. I mean, you know, who, like they were one, I was like, the one out of 100 people who had actually submitted things, and I shouldn’t have got it because I was the youngest than the least experience. And the world out there would have told me don’t give up this amazing opportunity, that just for that one moment in life, trusted my gut that this was not what I was born to do. The decision to do financial planning was a very different decision. You know, when you’re older, and you’ve got kids to support and you’re making a large, very large corporate paycheck, you know, to give that all up, you have got to be very clear on as a family unit, as to if this is a direction that works. And you’re not I mean, that that uj program, I took it over two years, because I was full time working. And I was a mom of three kids. And I, the minute I started talking about it. From that moment, it was about a year before. So from the beginning of the semester, first semester, all the way through to the end, it was about a year. And john and i had always had a vision of our future that would be non location dependent. And then we would have the ability to visit our girls wherever in the world they live, that we would have this freedom and flexibility and, you know, in my husband, fortunately, has been in banking or isn’t banking and really understands the wealth management business. But I also think, Louis, that it was, as I said, the synchronicity over that year, many many things came together and it always the hardest decision Is the decision of that first step, once you make that thing, that first step, things fall in place, but so much cannot fall into place, you cannot even see the possibility until you make that first step. And it’s what they call the leap of faith. And the reason why it’s a leap of faith is because if it was so easy, if we knew if I knew what this was, it would be so easy. I mean, it would have been an easy decision. But at the time, it wasn’t an easy decision. And I and I write in my book about about this moment. And what I did was that I had worked to remove myself from my leadership position, and then consult to the company I was working for for a year and a half day capacity. So I could start building my business. And I talked about this in the book where I had went into the HR directors office, to kind of do the first transition, you know, from permanent to contractor. And she had these cards in her and they were coaching cards. And I said, What do you do with this? And she said, pick a card, actually pick three, and one of them will stand out for you. And the card that resonated me was, what will you think about this decision in 10 years time? And I absolutely without a shadow of a doubt knew that in over a 10 year period. I would never regret that decision. Yes, in a one year or a two year when we’re having to cut our costs, because we’re starting up a new business. And we’ve got half the income that we used to have, yes, there many times that I did and knew that I would just question the decision. But over a 10 year period, I didn’t wouldn’t. And then on the very last day when I handed in the laptop, and I was no longer consultant, and I was going to start on my own journey, I went and did the exact same thing. I gave her my laptop and gave him my access card. And I pulled the card out of this pack of 52. And I got the exact same question. What will you think about this decision in 10 years time? And that is, you know, I don’t know who the first person who said it was. But there is the saying that says we always overestimate what will happen in the early periods of time, short periods of time. And we underestimate what will happen in the long run. And that question about the 10 years was the thing that focused me because I knew in 10 years time, my goals would have been whatever, 14 and 18. And I knew I would not have ever regretted backing myself to start this business.

Louis van der Merwe 

Short strikes me that this transition that you went through is something similar that financial planners would typically guide clients through, right being able to make that decision, during the groundwork, saying let’s prepay this Launchpad for when you go on your own. And then also just, you know, motivate a little bit and say, look at the bigger picture, take the 10 year view, did you have someone in your life other than your family that was kind of a cheerleader in your life rooting for you? Or is that just an internal drive that said, Hey, this, this is really what’s important to me and what I need to get to?

Lisa Linfield 

It’s so interesting. So because, you know, I think I think the ultimate person were was myself and and my partner, and my husband, john, but I definitely got a coach through that transition period. So for that year, when I started it, and before I made the decision, I sought out the most unbelievable coach, and she was a really difficult process. It was a really difficult process. And then, you know, it’s just, it really helped me to kind of kick the tires with someone who wouldn’t let me not go deep into my motives and make sure, you know, I talked about in my book, the difference between good reasons and real reasons. There are many good reasons that we can all give. But what are the real reasons because unless you do the thing based on the real reasons, the minute trouble hits, you’re going to run away and hide. So I definitely sought an external coach. And in actual fact, in every one of the places in my life where I feel stuck, I will always seek an external coach, because I think that I personally, am a person who needs to think things through with someone and I can do a journal a lot. But then there’s a point at which I need to speak to someone. So they was and but then also, you know, I had the most phenomenal boss and he just said to me, You were born for this, you know, and it was his like, I guess last I created a vacancy in his team. But it was Yeah, I was have always been surrounded by really great people. But at the end of the day, you got to do it yourself. You know, everyone else can steer you in the right direction but and everyone else can know that it’s a great fit and all of that went and can cheerlead you. But you’re the only person with you in the middle of the night. You’re the only person with you were on the first day you sit at your, your big empty desk with absolutely no clouds and you go know what, and you know, and that’s the challenge is that you truly are always you’re the person you spend all your time with. So you’ve got to get your thinking right, and you’ve got to really be clear on your whys and things like that. And then when I started working on as well, which I started by Six months after I never had, if you did one of those business plan things, I would never have had a business plan that included teaching a million women about money. But when I did do that, what ended up happening is that it created such a deep sense of purpose, I had such a passion, and I do have such a passion for the really dire retirement situation of most people that it just kept spurring me on, and it just kept going. So I think you have to, at the end of the day, be your ultimate cheerleader and your ultimate voice of reason. Because at the end of the day, the world out, there truly doesn’t pick you up in your weakest times, you are the one that picks you up and your faith, you know, that’s it,

Louis van der Merwe 

that’s so true, you know, you can have these external forces that help you. But ultimately, you have to keep going, and you have to align yourself, I just got an email newsletter earlier today, talking about you know, we have to do self gay so that we can help other people, if you don’t work on yourself, and you know, work through these difficult things and align your values and your goals, then we can’t be trying to help other people to do that. So the work starts with yourself and a lot of your your book called deep grooves, talk about this process that you can you can go through. But before we get to the book, you mentioned that you launched this podcast six months into into your new financial planning firm. And I’m wondering, you know, before we get into the kind of the purpose, how much of a distraction, could that have created? Or did it turn out? You know, actually, this was fueling and these two pieces work together? Because oftentimes we have to grapple with is like, Is it going to be worth it? Or is it going to distract me from my actual goal within the business? How did you? How did you unpack that?

Lisa Linfield 

theory? That’s such an interesting question. Did it distract me? Because often hindsight is a bad memory. So I would say it was a distraction. I think there are many times where my passion for teaching people has distracted me from building my business. It never distracted me from my client, because obviously, you know, when your business is six months old, you don’t have as many clients. And so, but I guess we have been lucky is that the two have grown together is that as the you know, when you first starting these things, I mean, it’s like riding a bike, you’ve got to think about everything. And it’s all very, you know, conscious, whereas now my podcast is kind of happens. And I’ve got people who support me and things like that. But I definitely think my teaching business distracted me from doing sales and business development. What, but the paradox of that is that it absolutely has been a massive sales and business development generator for my business. So I think timewise, you could say, it might have been a distraction. But, you know, there are clients who I know, have come to me because of the release of a new, you know, every time a new podcast comes, I put it on the LinkedIn, and then someone who used to work with me, 10 years ago goes, Hey, I just saw your thing on LinkedIn. I see you’re a financial planner, can we get together and have a meeting? So it is definitely me. My two businesses are completely and utterly symbiotic. In a sense that my one on one experience with my clients feels the things I’m thinking about that I then teach to my working women’s wealth audience, and then my workroom as well, the audience will ask me a question. And that will feel something that I’m thinking about for somewhere else. So it all kind of it definitely, it definitely is some Bartek. But I had to work a good balance between them. And that was really around getting the processes in place that makes it flow a lot more quick and a lot more easier. I mean, there’s not kidding, it’s still three, four hours a week, if I’m doing nothing else besides podcasts are still three, four hours a week that I’m investing in the in podcasting. So it still it still is a time investment. But it’s never for one minute think that it is a distraction. I see it as completely and utterly fundamental to my brand. And to me and to my personal growth and also to my discipline of sharpening my sword for my trade.

Louis van der Merwe 

That’s brilliant. They say that only 10% of marketing work that you don’t know which thing to sent, right. So it ended up that this podcast actually was fueling your business and like you saying, you know, you’re Top of Mind with your clients and potential clients. But that wasn’t your main goal. Right? It wasn’t to to generate new business. It was this kind of reaching a million women specifically. And I want to talk about how you created that big, hairy audacious goal that we we often call it what was that process like you know, or is it something that happened? Post you Starting realizing a this is what I’m going to aim for Kind of, yeah, what was that process?

Lisa Linfield 

So it’s interesting, you know, if we were to go back to the business plan, the business plan, so you always have an idea. And then you try to post rationalize it. So my post rationalization was my wealth management business, I work with people who have money to invest, and you have wealth. But there is this entire population of amazing human beings who don’t even know where to start. So I never started working women’s wealth, as part of my brand building force, Southern pride, my financial advice business, because as a pure strategist, and I mean, I spent number of years doing strategy as head of strategy when I was 24, for a 6 billion pound company. So strategy is kind of one of my lifelines. And the strategy was, you have a top end wealthy market,

but who,

Lisa Linfield 

your brain works hard, and it’s one on one, and it’s high end, high touch service, and then you have this huge scope of human beings who are never going to get access to great advice. And then those two don’t overlap at all. But a you can’t afford the business model that supports that. So how do you create give them access to this information in a way that is cost effective. So you can see all this post rationalization once I had that idea, I built my own little business case, just to go through my thinking, and my target markets, and my service model and all this, you know, great logical stuff. So to be totally honest, I never started a podcast to build my brand. That just was completely because the two were so disconnected. In fact, I actually worried that it would destroy my high net worth brand. But having said that, at the end of the day, it came down to passion. And I really have a heart for women, particularly, the single mums are the primary breadwinners, I had this picture in my brain, once I was praying, and I had this image of these woman carrying, like, you know, the oxen carry these huge big yolks and huge big heavy things on their shoulders. And, and there’s just this unbelievable issue, particularly in South Africa. And all of these children, over 65% of children that are born without a father on their birth certificate. And I read that stat in this was a 2017 step and heard that and I was like, who is helping those poor women raise these children. Because the minute a father cannot step onto a birth certificate that shows not supporting that not putting their hands into the back pocket. So I think it was just like, I just knew that I couldn’t serve them one on one, I can’t afford to serve them one on one. And so I needed a broadcast medium. And I there was no way I was going to do videos, they were all starting at the moment. But I mean, then you got to do your hair and your makeup and all that stuff. And there’s just not a hot chance. So it was podcasts. And that was kind of hard how I did it.

Louis van der Merwe 

It’s so interesting that instead of tackling the way advisors get remunerated, or the business model that we serve, is that you actually say, you know, what other methods can we use to reach an audience that we don’t necessarily want to serve. But there’s this kind of altruistic element to it that I think our clients could also be attracted to. And I want to spend a bit of time, you know, thinking of what’s the best way to serve these people, because it is a massive issue in South Africa. And I think of transformation in servicing the unserved and giving access to proper financial planning, not just the product distribution side, like, what are the things that surprised you from having these conversations with women that don’t have access to financial planning? What like, what’s the burning need from that target group that that we’re missing?

Lisa Linfield 

Wow, that’s a fascinating question. So let me go on how do i think is best to serve them? The honest answer, I think, is through corporate funded programs to employees. So I will often get asked by corporate to come in and speak to the lowest income earning people and and put together series so my philanthropy is that I teach home helpers about money. So people who earn less than 10,000 Rand about money, so they are earning an income, but it’s just less than 10,000. Right. So I think that’s the first place to start. So you know, there are a whole lot of people who have a deep heartfelt passion for creating jobs and employment, that’s not my lane, I don’t stick in that lane. My lane is about teaching people how when they get that random dollar in their pocket, how to manage it, and and how to get out of this incessant cycle of debt. And, you know, leave for me, if you want to solve poverty, you’ve got to solve for data because you know, address that I can buy can be bought by a person who earns 4000 grand a month that I will pay half the price that they will pay because they but I don’t date. And then. And it’s not just the exorbitant interest rate, that’s the lowest part of the cost of debt, the major part of the cost of debt is the monthly fees that come off the account. And when you do an APR, including all the monthly fees, it’s just you just want to cry. And you can then understand why because someone who earns a fraction of what I earn pays double every single time, if not more. So, I’ve come to the conclusion and like, I’m not the most imaginative person. So I fully stand out there that there are people with far better ideas, but I can only speak on my behalf is that the work that I do with corporates to coach their employees who are under financial stress, or to give talk to the employees, when the corporate basically pays you a nominal amount of money, or offers you the opportunity to go and do philanthropy by teaching that is where I think that we can make the most difference. Because the bottom line is, for most of them, they’re forced to be there, because and then the content is so gripping. And you literally can change your life by giving up an hour of your time to speak to people who are the cleaners and the lower income earners, you can absolutely change their lives. And there is nothing more stimulating than that. So I for me that I think is the path is through the corporates, because the time is, is satisfied in their work day, they all happen to be at work, you know, and that’s where you can teach them and and i think it then comes down to Okay, well how do you then use creative ways to grab people’s attention. And they’re fun and wonderful. And amid the my best conversations come from my home helpers that I that I have. I mean, we love from our belly. And it’s just it’s such great fun, it’s really great fun.

Louis van der Merwe 

I think what we’ve experienced is was that that trust automatically transfers from the employer, to to you as the financial planners, and oh, this is someone that our employer brought in, to help us to actually really care and they want us to work better with our money. What are the conversations that have surprised you from these sessions that you maybe didn’t expect to going into them?

Lisa Linfield 

Me, I think the first thing that always surprise surprises me actually is an indictment on our own industry. The first thing that surprises me is why isn’t the person doing the employee benefits, offering this as part of the service? And that for me as something is something I really struggle with? I don’t I personally don’t do employee benefits. So I’m of no competition to them whatsoever, because it’s just not a field I am going to be in. But that saddens me, why are they bringing in another person another financial advisor to help the lower end people, low income earners, you know, with this, but the things that surprised me, you know, work Lee, to be totally honest, how much data is and how much of people’s salaries go into debt. What breaks my heart is the amount of strain these young people are the people 30 years and under who are the first person to ever have a university degree in a proper job, and they’re supporting everybody. And these poor little people are about to like collapse, because it’s like, the goose that lays the golden egg is slowly being throttled in this process. So the amount of debt really kind of gets me. But I love the youngsters, I love the ones that have just come like they had first job. And they’ve used their first paycheck to buy their fancy. I mean, I was just talking to a bunch of graduates, I do a few graduate programs. And they all look like they’re come out of school because they won’t let the same dude with the same trainers, whatever these techies were, these things were clearly the way in, and I asked him how much it costs, and they tend to be 1500 I nearly fell off my

chair. I was like, I’m never

Lisa Linfield 

gonna spend that much money on some casual trainers, you know, to go with my jeans, you know, that give me the 200 pairs. So yeah, so it’s always, the definition of wealth always surprises me. And I guess it’s a societal definition of wealth. You know, one of my greatest teaching tools ever has been my 100 chairs. And I will always find even in the graduates, it doesn’t matter what population I’m talking to of low income earners, there will always be someone there who’s got a fancier car than me, and the look of horror on their face that I actually drive 100 chairs and I’m financially free, is, you know, it’s just always and this might be my best teaching tool to challenge this assumption is if you are wealthy, you must drive fancy cars. And you must wait like, I mean, the shirt I’m wearing at the moment is from two words, and I think I bought it about like 15 years ago, and so they’re challenging those assumptions. And that’s why I say it’s so much fun. We get to laugh, we get to think and then I’ll say it to the geese have to have 100 years, but have you been to 20 All countries in the world and they’ll look at me and go, No. And I’m like, you see, that’s what I choose to do. So it’s these things on assumptions, you know, what assumptions are you making, the assumption you’re making is that personal display of money will make you feel worth more, or whatever it is, you know, there are all these assumptions that we’re making around retirement with my helpers, you know, their biggest assumption is that their children will look after them in retirement. And then you’ll always have one gogo, who says, My children are 45 and employed, and I’m the one that still supporting them at 68. And their children. So don’t make that assumption. You know, there’s always a wonderful gogo, a great teacher, they’re great examples, and they teach each other and our job is just to facilitate that conversation,

Louis van der Merwe 

I love that they’re actually teaching each other and you’re facilitating the end of removing those limiting beliefs. And there’s so much of the coaching element that comes through in what you’re doing and saying, hey, you just need to be there and start the conversation. And in being in the financial planning industry, and, you know, maybe being guilty of the same things, I think the fear is that maybe I don’t have the right tools to be able to serve these people based, like what you saying is actually just use stories and unpack these things and just facilitate it and jump in and, and start somewhere, instead of just, you know, doing nothing, or maybe working with the clients that you think or there’s someone that’ll do it more income.

Lisa Linfield 

Lee, there is not a person in the financial services industry that doesn’t have more knowledge, then at least half the population of any country you live in. You know, we just do by the nature of that we actually even understand what a budget is, most people don’t even understand that concept. We understand that when you take things, when you borrow money to buy a dress, you’re going to pay more money for their dress, then the person next door to you that doesn’t borrow the money, we understand the concept that life happens or other things we can call it, but life happens and you need an emergency fund. Like it. This isn’t rocket scientists. But the question is, the whole thing is to go in with the humble learning attitude. I have learned more about life, I’ve learned more about the world and also more about the impact that I can make, by just showing up, you know, there’s absolutely nothing I mean, my own helper bag scans for everybody or risks for everybody, you know, it’s it, it is just the most, it doesn’t require everything, it requires you to just show up and facilitate the conversation and ask for real life examples. You know, we all have such a gift in this financial knowledge, it’s the most unbelievable gift that generations of poor people have never had access to. And you can give this gift for free because it pops off in your brain, it doesn’t require much to do it. And most of times you don’t have like, you can’t whip up a PowerPoint screen. Because sometimes you’re underneath a tree in the middle of nowhere. You know, you can’t, it’s just about conversation and about sharing, and about worries and fears and also being human, you know, and that’s the reality is is and laughing at yourself. Because once you laugh at yourself, then everybody else laughs at the craziness, you know, and we’re all a bunch of free people sometimes.

Louis van der Merwe 

Being comfortable sharing that fruitiness is, is great. Yeah, I can definitely see that love for learning shining through. I’m wondering what the response has been from your, your client base, right? You’re paying clients, when you give back to the community and you’re on this mission? Yeah, I’d love to hear what what they say about that.

Lisa Linfield 

That’s such an interesting thing. Because you at the end of the day, a relationship with paying can’t is about trust, and how well you manage and listen to them and their needs, you know, and then manage manage their money. So I don’t think it would add my add any value if you weren’t delivering on your, your SLA with him. You know, I don’t think so these things are additive when things are great in a relationship, but and it definitely makes a difference. You know, I’ve definitely had clients who say, I chose you because you help other people with their money. And, you know, people who aren’t as wealthy and things like that, um, but it’s not really something I will bring into if they happen to know about it. They happen to know about it’s not something you know, a lot of my clients are old and they don’t see the Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever the post is they don’t you know, it’s just part of my account if it comes up or and is appropriate in my conversation with him. You know, I always offer my clients first that they help us come on to my courses and things like that. So they know I’m doing it. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I mean, you’d have to ask my clients that I don’t really solicit feedback as to whether it impacts I’m sure it does, and I think it does, and I think it’s part of the package, but it’s totally in line with my value system. And that’s the thing is that I think if you’re trying to do these things to brand bold in inverted commas, and it’s not in line with who you are, then I think people will see it as a sleazy scam, you know, it just is in line with who I am, you know, it’s, it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t surprise people that, you know, I have all these crazy things going on, because it’s just, you know, I have a love of learning, I have a love of teaching, I am deeply passionate that my clients are financially free. So what I learned from my clients, I teach my clients and I help them to be financially free, it’s totally in my brand to go and learn from whoever, you know, the helpers or whoever teach them and one thing to be financially free. So it’s congruence. And I think that’s about life, and also getting all those you really don’t, I guess I don’t really mind if it’s something that they like or don’t like, which is why I’ve never solicited it is just what I think is my ability to give back. And we live in this world where we all have to give back in whatever our way is. And this is how I do it, you know.

Louis van der Merwe 

So it’s not being everything for everyone. It’s saying, you know, who’s my tribe, and these are the people that I want to help and want to work towards.

Lisa Linfield 

Absolutely. And you’re gonna have many tribes, as I said, I’ve got, I’ve got this amazing base of high net worth tribes, and then I’ve got the whoever happened to be with at the time, you know, I mean, I am that painful person, who will talk about a world at a dinner party,

Louis van der Merwe 

I get an invite again.

Lisa Linfield 

But you know, I just, I, you know, if it’s contextual, and you know, the thing is, my friends, or will come to me, and ask the real questions of life, you know, and maybe that’s just me, maybe I’m just far, very interested in the real estate of people’s lives. You know, one of the things that fascinated me about becoming a financial advisor is how many people I knew before I became a financial adviser that looked like they had their houses in order, they drove fancy cars, they had beautiful houses, you know, their kids will look perfect, and all that, and then I started to do their money. And I was like, not so much underneath, you know, and then you hear what’s really going on. And it’s such a deep privilege to be able to help people at their real point of need. And maybe that’s where I fit into, into, you know, the liquid all sorts packet is that I’m the one that that’s where people come to, I don’t know,

Louis van der Merwe 

Lisa, can we unpack that a little bit, you know, saying, someone might look from the outside that everything’s in order. But yet, when they start engaging with a financial planner, there’s these things that come up that actually, you know, they could feel guilty about? Or, you know, it must have been a really difficult step to take to actually deal with a financial planner, have you found that there’s ways to ease that process to say, Hey, this is a safe space? or? Yeah, have you? Have you experienced any any of that,

Lisa Linfield 

I think the real challenge is to suspend judging people, and just to accept where they are. And that is a real challenge. You know, we all by nature, I think that our way is kind of the right way. So not living a life of date, not paying all that money in interest to the banks, so that you pay for the banker to sit on the beach, and not do all of that stuff, like we get it is about trying to find a point of connection with the person and to say, Hey, you know, like, there many things I struggle with, you know, I might have my finances kind of under control it. And yet, you know, it takes me a lot to make me go to German, and you know, forego my chocolate, you know, so I think it’s just about seeing that all of us have parts of our lives that aren’t quite as they seem to everybody else. And, and it’s about creating that trust and about listening and about really deeply understanding. And, you know, I’ve got a long way to go on that whole coaching question versus, you know, leading people and all that, and I’ve done all the courses and things like that. And, but it’s just part of that safe space. It’s part of that authenticity. And it’s also one of the biggest things I’ve learned is that I’m not everybody’s cup of tea. So I’ve also learnt learned that part of my own style is that I am very direct. And I hope and I’m telling you, I’m sure 100% sure I don’t achieve this all the time. But I strive to achieve a balance between empathy and care, deep care and concern for my clients. And honest this is hard is you know, you I had a client the other day, who who had 600,000 Rand saved for retirement and she was retiring in two years time or three years time, and she wanted to To use 40 to 50,000 Rand a month, well, she just doesn’t like the no way I can do the math that that’s going to be okay. You know. So, I am very direct, and some people don’t like that. But I believe for me a trust relationship is based on both empathy and trust. And then I think it’s also just about, you know, there is a privilege in holding a CFP title, there’s a privilege that says, I have the ethical, and the technical skills and the experience to be able to hold this conversation. And, and I think all of that comes together, who you are, your value system, how you interact, and then the the level required by your profession to step up and show up in a way that’s meaningful for clients.

Louis van der Merwe 

Yeah, reminds me of the medicine. You know, when you go to a doctor, they have to explain to you what the impact of this illness is with this diagnosis. Yet, sometimes we want to sugarcoat it and say, Oh, no, you’ll be fine. And we’ll figure something out. And how do you relay that information when the client might not be okay? And when you’re saying you only have 600,000, grand hope for financial planners listening? How do you How did you handle that discussion? You know,

Lisa Linfield 

when I was first, in my very first year of starting my business, I went to the investment conference in San city, and I said myself one goal, which is to find all the people with the gray hair that I could learn from, and I literally went and hunted them down. And I asked him, every one of them the exact same question, how do you tell a person they don’t have enough money to retire? For me, as an overachiever from corporate this was the most difficult thing because I built these beautiful PowerPoint pictures, because I don’t believe people can cope with the amount of information we throw at them. So I’m a management consultant. by one of my original trainings, I worked for a big five consultancy. And I then built these beautiful things that I put huge amounts of hours and effort in. And it didn’t matter how much I did, when I gave them this answer that they were so far short of retirement, it was scary. They were always upset with me. Now, as a, as an insecure overachiever. You know, if I’m doing a phenomenal piece of work you like, it’s usual to say, oh, my goodness, this is a phenomenal piece of work. And you never got that reaction from clients, you know, so one of the very first things I had to learn is to value is that delivering this message is never going to be comfortable for your clients, it’s never gonna be a great experience, where you walk away feeling great, because you know the implications of that. So it is, but as well as it’s never gonna be a great experience for you. It isn’t earth shattering, absolutely monumental experience for them. And so, for me, it’s about delivering it in simple terms. So you know, 600,000 is 1250 1000s equals 600,000. So it’s translating it into easy math, easy maths, you know, it doesn’t matter how many times you can sit, then go compound interest in growth, and this and that, and the whole Dude, you know, like, that’s going to just switch people off. You know, it’s simple, easy, clear things of this is, this is the issue. And in reality, it’s just part of growing, I’ve done the best way I can, to present the information in what I call human speak, the easy to understand language and words, that people can really get a clear picture of what’s happening for them, you know, and that’s that, I guess, I welcome anybody who’s got any better way of telling people that they don’t have enough money to retire? Because you see, one of the things that happened to me early on in my business is that I used to do mergers and acquisitions. And so one of the things I did when you start a business, you buy a book, so I bought a tiny little weeny book of 10 clients, and none of them had ever heard the message that it didn’t have enough money in a way that stuck with them. So I’m sure if I asked advise, I bought those 10 cards, and she would have said she’s told them a million times. But all of them told me it was a complete shock that they didn’t have enough money. And when I said you’re living off 25,000 a night need to live off 7000 like I gave those numbers very clear to them. It took three years for most of them to change their ways, but they’re now have changed the way some of them lived. And that’s absolutely fine. The thing I never want to be is left when someone looks at me like those cans look to me like this is a something new, you know, this isn’t, you know, like we all make our money. choices and life is difficult. And so money doesn’t always work out how we think it should work out. But if you know what you’re growing into, I think it’s easier. You give your clients more choices early on in life to change the trajectory. It’s very hard with one or two years left to retirement to change the trajectory. You know, and I guess that’s what you believe. I don’t really use Tell me if you’ve got a great way of telling people

Louis van der Merwe 

you know, that they told them without them realizing what this advisor is saying. And oftentimes, we don’t use human speak, right, we use technical well, charts, and you’re gonna run out of money on on this date, I think the only thing that I would add to that conversation is having some element of support system or, or some hope, because without hope, you know, it can feel like this, this is the end.

Lisa Linfield 

Right there, the very first course that I designed, you know, when I went into creating online courses, I naturally thought that, you know, my my business plan had, I was going to create a course about savings and debt and investments, like all the kind of minor lines of financial planning. And the very first course I created was a 94 video course on how to start a side hustle. Because of exactly that, you know, because I started in 2017, before the zoom world and all of that stuff, people didn’t know that you could earn money by filling out surveys, or you can earn money by talking English to Turkish pilots who have to know English in order to land a plane anywhere in the world. Or you can I mean, there are these amazing ways. So I still have a download on my website of Yeah, I think it’s nine different ways to make money sitting on the couch. And it’s a free download. And that’s exactly so I’m totally with you. And you know, the thing about life is that, that hope is so important. And, and for me it’s use, we’ve got to look at expenses, but the most important income that all of us should be looking at how do we get people to work in their passions to make money. And trust me, I mean, in the groups that I’ve been in since 2017, there’s been a person who is a multimillion dollar, and his entire audience is those people who listened to aeroplanes landing, you know, the like radio thing, and the knitting world. So when I built my side, hustle video, I took knitting because I can’t knit I have no interest in knitting, I never want to knit to my entire life. And I proved to them that I could build the business around knitting, this knitting world has got so much it’s such a great niche, and you target knitting for grandmas with first babies, and you will make billions. And this was the whole thing was, how do you you know, it’s very hard for most of the people in the South Africa and in the world, their money goes to education, educating the kids medical expenses, food and the transport to get from out of a city to inside a city every single day. You can’t say to those people will stop your cappuccino, they’re not having cappuccinos. You know, like, it’s you really can’t take cut expenses, because they’re living off the bone. There is only one alternative is sit and brainstorm with your clients. What you can do. So I mean, the women in one of these capitals, had never hadn’t worked for the last 25 years, she had a beautiful house, she was phenomenal at her house and she loved her flowers, there was always flowers. And I say to her, why don’t you go on a Saturday or Sunday, and work in a shop and support and do all of that. So you brainstorm these things, there are many ways to increase your income. And you don’t even have to leave your couch.

Louis van der Merwe 

Just another example of how you don’t have to come up with the solutions. You know, you can learn from your clients, like you’ve been saying, be it you know, your wealthy clients, people running out of money, or people just starting out earning a really low salary. And I can see this passion that shines through. We mentioned your book a couple of times, like maybe let’s just chat about that, you know, you’ve you’ve been doing this podcast, you’ve got a financial planning business, you’ve got a family, and then you throw in a book.

Lisa Linfield 

The book is is actually as a result of the podcast. And so I go through this journey and I leave corporate and I’m so used to the rules of corporate you know, corporate is an extension of school and university where there’s like a system you work hard you do well your boss says you’re wonderful, your colleagues, your wherever you get promoted, you get an increase, or if you don’t like the rules are quite simple. And then you start your own business and are my shattered soul. There’s, there’s nothing simple about a business every night. Remember, like you got to learn how to bind a financial plan. You know, like, have you ever used a binder? I mean, that thing goes off all over the place. So I went through this massive journey. You know, one of the most difficult things was how do I charge for my service? How do I price Lisa, you know, and it brought about a whole bunch of things. Actually, I’ve got faulty thinking, you know, my thinking was, if you didn’t say yes, then you didn’t like me or you didn’t think I was good enough, or whatever it is. But 90% it’s got nothing to do with Lisa, the human. It’s the product this that I’m selling, I’m not selling me, as a human, I’m selling me as I’m selling the product, my knowledge, my experience, my whole packet. And so I had to learn to separate Lisa, the human from Lisa the product. And it was a mess of thing. And part of like, it was I just went through so much change. And I realized that my thinking habits were stuck. And so as I learned, and as I researched, and, you know, I said, I love learning, I really love learning. So I did courses and read books, and did all this kind of stuff. And I came up with ways to change these patterns of my thinking, Well, the first thing I had to realize was that my thinking wasn’t what I thought the truth was, wasn’t really the truth. You know. And, and I think that whole journey led me to, to see it also in my clients you cannot say to someone is, people often don’t need knowledge, they need to change the way they thinking. So let me take an easy example. I know, I need to exercise four times a week.

I know

Lisa Linfield 

that chocolate and triple caramel, ice cream are not my best friends when it comes to being healthy. You know, there are many things I know. But I still don’t change my habits. So that’s the same as people with money. They know that income minus expenses is what they have to say for the future.

Like,

Lisa Linfield 

it’s pretty as simple as that, like there is not any rocket science to this whole thing. But the question is they don’t. So then our our challenge is what, how is their faulty thinking working, that this is what they’re doing. And that they spending too much that they’re not saving that they does, you know, sometimes it is knowledge, but nine out of 10 times people know they’re spending, the reason why they don’t come and see financial advisors. And the reason why they don’t actually know what the monthly income of their retirement is going to give them the day before they retire, is because they’re actually scared of the answer. Because they know it’s not enough. So any I worked out that anything that I wanted to change in my life, and my clients who wanted to change in their life, came down to changing those thinking patterns that keep you stuck. And then once you start changing those having a clear vision as to why you want to change, looking at the same person seeing what it is that you really want to do. And then this last final thing of what are the different tools that you can use, because you know, I mean, I went to med school, sure, like 30 years ago, the body of medical knowledge has doubled and tripled and quadrupled a million times since then, you know, and what they know about the brain these days, you know, you just got to learn how to do the brain science and you can hack your brain to time change. In theory, in practice, you need the whole thing kind of piece of the puzzle. And what I found on my journey was that there were a million books out there, one on habits, one on goals, one on this one on that. And I have to read them all. And so what I wanted to create was one book that had all of it in thinking habits, goals, everything that you could possibly do as to how to change and live the space life. And that was kind of why I did it.

Louis van der Merwe 

So deep grooves for anyone listening, you can get it on Amazon, it’s available on Kindle, you can order the book in any good bookstore, I would imagine. And that’s a highly recommended, it’s one of those one of the top ones to listen and read at least, alongside with books like you know, advice that sticks by more or summons. These are all things that are helping financial planners and people change their habits. And more and more what we speak about is these limiting beliefs and these things saying actually, the technology and the information is important. But you know if that was the only thing we need, we’d all have six packs and be millionaires, but you will not find me I’m very baby. Lisa, this has been so much fun for someone wanting to reach out to you. What’s the best way they can do that?

Lisa Linfield 

So I have a website, Lisa lynfield calm and that just leads you to everything and I am on social media. And you can listen to my podcast working as well, which is available on any podcast platform you can think of brilliant Thank you so much. Thanks Leigh. It was lovely chatting to you.