FPA Congress Insights #5 – Transcript

Fraser Jack
Welcome back, everybody to another podcast coming to you not so long, but almost live from the Financial Planning Association Conference, Congress, I should say here in Sydney,

Danni Visser
the largest mini series ever, isn’t it? We’re day two, and we’ve just ticked over lunch and there’s about to be some hungry people join us as well.

Fraser Jack
I feel like we had day one and day two, we should add season one and season two.

Danni Visser
We might do that later. That’s a good idea.

Fraser Jack
We are joined by the CEOs, plural of the current associations of Financial Planning Association and the Association of financial advisors. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome, Phil.

Sarah Abood
Hey, Fraser, great to be here.

Phil Anderson
Thank you. Yeah. Hi, Fraser. Excellent to be here.

Fraser Jack
And we are going to kick off talking about the Congress itself. Sarah, this is over to you tell us, you must be very proud.

Sarah Abood
Well, we’re just so excited. The mood is fantastic. I think having so many people together in person after so long, everyone is saying how great it feels to be together again, and there’s 1200 People here. So it’s an atmosphere that you certainly can’t replicate on Zoom. The content has been really well received. I think people are just enjoying that ability to, to get back out there. Get back out network with colleagues and see the latest thinking from around the world as well as in Australia. So the moods fantastic. I’m just so happy at how it’s going.

Danni Visser
It’s your 30th birthday for the FPA Congress as well. So there’s going to be some cupcakes at some stage I’ve heard Yep. Yeah, that’s the important thing. That’s what it’s what I’ve been trying to track down aches and gin. I mean, the gene I tested last night, and that was delicious. I can give that a rave review. Thank you for pillars.

Sarah Abood
That was fantastic. And I think that that Christmas feeling is in the areas where people are feeling like, Okay, we’ve had a long, hard three years, it’s a bit of a new era, we’ve run the marathon and the future is looking bright. And that sense of optimism about the future is really coming through.

Danni Visser
Yeah, we have absolutely heard that in the podcasts that we’ve been having in the chats that we’ve been having with people who’ve been presenting or the advisors, everyone is really excited. And they’re sort of talking about really robust businesses, that perhaps has been that grind. But there’s they’re already doing well, it’s not even going to start doing well. There’s a lot of success that they’re talking about that’s already happened. So it’s fantastic to see that be that

Fraser Jack
the hustle and bustle has certainly been around and for people listening to podcast or the original podcasts that we’ve been doing. The last couple days, there’s been a lot of noise in the background, and there’s been a real buzz in the air. Now, one of the sessions that were has, you know, anticipated and a lot of people attended was the session around the conversation around bringing the two associations together. It’s been a hot topic for many sessions over the last few months. And you know, since it was announced, Phil will go Do you tell us a little bit about the conversation how it’s been going? Obviously, there’s been a fair bit of feedback over that time.

Phil Anderson
Yeah, so the first announcement was the first of September, that’s when we went to the market with the explanation that we’re exploring the prospect of a merger and there’s been a lot of consultation since then, you know, we’ve had individual webinars, we’ve had a joint webinar where Sarah, myself, were involved. We had the FPGA board, come to the AFA conference a couple of months ago, and this time around, we’ve got the AFA board come to the FPGA Congress. And so the discussion the dialogue has been ongoing. And we’ve had a lot of opportunities to interact with people this morning was another opportunity with both the chair of the FBI and the president of the AFA on the stage and answering questions. And it was a decent turn up, there was I think, about 60 people there. And they were engaged, you know, wanting to ask questions and understand the priorities of the new organization, assuming that members approve the merger, which were scheduling a vote at the end of February next year, and there was positivity about it, and a commitment to do it. I think so. There’s a lot of work to be done. We still need to get this to a stage where we’ve got the documentation that’s required to consult with members and then ultimately put it to a vote. We’re we’re hearing positive feedback.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. And so what have been some of the main things you’re hearing within that feedback?

Sarah Abood
Yeah, so a lot of the questions from our members have been around the new constitution and the new name. And that’s really important, because it is partly symbolic of the two organizations coming together. But it’s also acknowledging that it will be a new association. So that that the importance of what the name of the association is keeps coming up, and it keeps being one of the first couple of questions that we get. And that’s going to be an important part of the member consultation, because this is the association of its members. And it’s really important that members feel that the name the Constitution, the way that we present ourselves to the World and the objects and goals that we have are theirs because we exist for our members. So that consultation that Phil was referring to will include an ability for members to let us know what’s important to them about the name. And if they’ve got a name, I’ve had heaps of suggestions.

Danni Visser
What’s your least favorite name?

Sarah Abood
There’s a lot. And we are keeping a name bank, if

Fraser Jack
you like, wasn’t there a risk? That didn’t they do? That was one of the boats that they launched in the UK when it was voting. So we’re not calling Association?

Phil Anderson
I think it was a very, very, very

Sarah Abood
Yeah, no, no, I think we, the importance is recognized. And we’re engaging some experts to help us through this process. So they know what they’re doing. We’re not going to come up with very, very face, we’re going to come up with something

Fraser Jack
meaningful consultation means serious conversation, not just a boat for a silly name.

Danni Visser
So in member consultation that’s been done to date and the sentiment that you’ve heard, what are those really important things that this new association needs to reflect for its members? Like, what are the things you can go look, that’s really important? There’s a lot to be clarified yet. But what are the things you you know, you’ve got to do a lot

Sarah Abood
of chat to the ones that arise with me and then maybe Phil, you can you can talk to the ones that AFA members are speaking on. So for FPA members, the CFP designation is incredibly important. Many of them will put a lot of time and effort and money into getting that designation, and they want to ensure that it continues to be supported, it continues to lead. And that’s, that will be the case. And it’s important for us to demonstrate that. And the commitment to professionalism, the commitment to high standards is incredibly important to our members as well. And they need to see that that is going to continue in the new association. The other kind of linking one, I guess is that we we both get questions about fees, and will the cost of membership change. And the work that we’re doing at the moment is easy, in our view. And from what we’ve seen that there won’t be a membership category that pays more in the new association. That’s pretty important to people in these days of high inflation as well.

Phil Anderson
Yeah, to add to that, I think everyone’s on the same page about advocacy being a priority going forward. And I don’t think we’ve got substantial differences there. You’ve seen that this week with us having consistent views about life insurance commissions, I think at the feedback from our members is probably in the field of making sure the community is maintained. And that sense of belonging to an organization. And that’s not something that in my view is a is an obstacle, it’s just about framing how we move forward to make sure that we hold on to the best things of each Association as we move forward. Professional designations is equally important for some of our members is recognized that the FCA GFP and the chartered life practitioner won’t be ongoing in terms of open programs. But we’re holding on to those professional designations. And we will continue to recognize and promote them so that the value is preserved in them. I think another thing that’s come back from our members is about representation and having that sense that there is someone involved at the senior level of the association that is representing them and putting they’re advocating for the views and the issues that are local. In a broader context. So that’s that’s important. I think more generally, people are just wanting to get on with this and make it happen. And it’s an it’s a process that you need to work through. Yeah, there’s lawyers involved, and there’s documentation. But I think ultimately, it comes to a vote, and then we make it happen if our members approve it.

Fraser Jack
Tell us about that voting process, because it’s quite important that I think people know about it. Yeah.

Phil Anderson
So the plan at the moment is that we will have to EGM is extraordinary general meetings, one for the FPA one for the AFA, both of our organizations, I think we have the mechanism for members to vote via proxy. So if we have the meeting at the end of February next year, then we’ve got to get the documentation out to members, at least 21 days before that, we’ll be doing this in a hybrid sense. So there’ll be the ability for people to come face to face but there will also be the ability for people to participate remotely. And then in terms of proxy votes, once the papers go out. We’ll both be doing this in terms of platforms where it’s possible to make your vote, and you can make that vote at any stage in advance of the meeting. Meeting you just have to nominate who you want to be your proxy and you’ve got the chance to, to make the votes recorded.

Fraser Jack
And talk to me about the levels there. Have. You need 75%?

Sarah Abood
Yes, that’s right. So it’s just a corpse act thing of the members who vote 75% need to vote in favor. But I think we both feel very strongly that we’d want to see a really high proportion of our membership voting as well. So we’re really keen for people to vote. I think there’s a bit of a sense among some members, that it’s a kind of all well, you know, just get on with it. Of course, yeah, that will go ahead. But we do need members to indicate their approval, I think we both keen for there to be a mandate. And that means a really high proportion of our members voting as well. And that’s what we’re hoping for, we really want members to ensure that they they do make sure their voices heard and that their votes recorded.

Danni Visser
So don’t sit on the sidelines. Absolutely not. Don’t be quiet on this matter.

Fraser Jack
That’s the call direction, isn’t it? If if you don’t if you don’t vote because you make the assumption, then you could end up affecting the outcome. Yeah.

Phil Anderson
And that’s it’s an important point. Because the more people vote, the more reflective it is of the views of the broader membership base. If it’s a small number of people that vote then it could be influenced by smaller groups, and we want it to be representative of the of the full membership base.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, fantastic. And then what’s the process after that? If the if it all comes together? What sort of timeline are we looking at?

Sarah Abood
So the transition, there’s a number of things that need to happen after the votes we get, and we don’t just wake up the next morning, and we have a new association. So there’s a governance transition when in the board’s coming together and the way that they do that, the Constitution is adopted. And then of course, all the rules and regs and so on, that are associated with that constitution need to be updated and published. Also, importantly, membership has got to be resolved. And the new association will be offering membership clearly to the members of both associations. And because at the moment, the AFA has a monthly rolling membership, but the FPA has an annual membership. So we need to get that aligned for members of both associations on that financial year basis. So that’ll be a really early focus. It’s making sure that everyone understands, okay, I was Member Type A in the in the previous Association, now a member type be going to log into the portal and upgrade it and hit the button to say, Yes, this is my member type. So there’ll be a lot of communication and information coming out around that membership transition as well. And then once that, that process is complete, then we complete the merger with the AFA finishing off the last the last few issues with some of those legal structures, Corporation pieces and so on. And then we consider the transition to be complete, it’s likely to take some months after the end of the financial year. But in terms of members, the goal is everyone knows where they stand everyone’s members new association by the end of the financial year.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, it’s a really good point your eyes, there’s a lot of work to do in that background with the different structures and a lot of people probably don’t realize how much structure is behind the scenes, for example, the where’s the the charitable foundation pieces or the or the or the other organizations that look at managing the money behind the scenes. So yeah, there was a lot to do.

Phil Anderson
Yeah, that’s right. We’ve got the AFA, that association itself. We’ve got the AFA Foundation, which is our charitable entity which the AFA is the trustee of. And then we have the AFA Investment Fund, which is is our reserves, our rainy day fund, which has its own trustee, corporate trustee with its own board. So there’s all of those things that that have to take place. But ultimately, we want to ensure that all of these entities are included in this. The the documentation that comes out from early to mid December, we’ll we’ll go through this process in more detail. There’ll be an information memorandum. And it’ll talk to when the legal completion date is and the other steps that needs to take place.

Fraser Jack
Yes, it’s a very fairly serious voting to be had as we go through that process. And I wish you all the best through that process. I know that there’ll be a lot of work done to get that through. Sir, I want to finish by saying thank you so much for having us along. To the to the Congress. It’s been like you said the buzz in the background is amazing. And you must be so proud of what’s what’s what’s happened to you.

Sarah Abood
Thanks so much, Fraser. I think this is a fantastic idea to do the podcast. It’s I’ve really enjoyed the couple I’ve done and I think it’s a it’s a fabulous way to get the message out to people who weren’t able to make it this year. Really hoping they can join us next year and thank you for all your sports.

Fraser Jack
Danny No, I haven’t been able to get to a lot of the sessions because we’ve been here but we got the short version of most of the sessions to spring and beyond, we’ve got the highlight reel. So we’ve had a great time. Fantastic. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Welcome back to our series, brought to you from the Financial Planning Association Conference in Sydney. I’m joined with Conrad Travers, thank you for joining me, Conrad.

Conrad Travers
Great to be here.

Fraser Jack
There you are from a business called Tangelo consulting,

Conrad Travers
Tangelo advice, consulting. That’s correct. Yep.

Fraser Jack
It tells a little bit about business.

Conrad Travers
So we set up about three or four years ago, we’ve got a team of about five people who’ve all come out of the corporate advice world. And we’re compliance consultants. So we support licensees b2b, around identifying their gaps. So there could be people policy process and governance, and then kind of rolling our sleeves up and closing those gaps. So it’s really a practical compliance service to support licensees with what they need.

Fraser Jack
Yep. And that’s the annual in licensees of the people that you’re working with directly. Yeah, licensees

Conrad Travers
and wealth businesses, because there’s a few wealth businesses trying to get into advice. So we’re supporting both.

Fraser Jack
Yep. Fantastic. And if he wanted to find somebody how they reach out to you.

Conrad Travers
Yeah, so Tangela consulting.com. That, are you? We’re also available on LinkedIn, and you know, happy to take a phone call anytime. Yeah,

Fraser Jack
fantastic. Now you ran a session, or your team manager session, tell us a little bit about the session that you’ve just come offstage from?

Conrad Travers
Yeah. So we ran a session called controlling the controllables. And looking at some practical tips around compliance. So we looked at it through a few different lenses. The first one, which is kind of interesting is that, in the last few years, we’ve found every single licensee that we know, even though we’re focused on compliance has people issues. So one of the things we say before we start with anything is, have you got the right people? Have they got all mandates in place? Do you do training? Do they understand why they’re doing that? So we kind of covered that off first, there was a lot of questions about that. And some of the attendees were talking about different things that had worked for them. And then we talked about process. So this is about, you know, having a process document for everything that you do, try to automate that as much as possible to try to take risk off the table. And then we had a long conversation about ongoing service and fixed term agreements, as well as file construction. So how a file can tell a story. So that’s one of the main points phrases just coming out of the session is, advisors are great at talking to clients, but really about a documenting it. So when compliance people look at their file, they don’t understand why they’ve recommended what they’ve recommended. So number one tip would be make sure when you’re looking at your fact, find your SOA your file, note that the whole thing works together as a story. So someone who didn’t even know about advice could pick it up and go, I know why you’ve done what you’ve done.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, it’s really interesting part of that. And we’ve done some conversations around the videos, limit of advice, and then being able to then say in some of the tips, economic were advisors are very good at saying or speaking, the advice I’m terrible at writing,

Conrad Travers
when you sort of ask them like, why did you do that, and they talked about it was passionate about that client was, you know, an older client with dementia. So that’s what you don’t see that on the file. So that’s what really what we’re trying to say there disconnect

Fraser Jack
now. Compliance session, but a very interactive compliance sessions. Let’s get back to the beginning the culture or the people part of it, what sort of were the tips and highlights around that piece?

Conrad Travers
Yeah, so the first thing is, have you got raw mandates in place? The second one would be Have you got regular training in place. And one of the practical tips that we gave there was to have a lunch session every two weeks on financial advice strategies, but actually explained to the support staff, why they’ve done what they’ve done. So we often find when we come into a practice, after they’ve sort of trusted us, the support staff will talk to us and go, I don’t know what’s going on, or why I’m doing this. So it’s that old story is like until you explain the why they won’t understand what you know, like the efficiency of what they’re doing. Yeah, that’s

Fraser Jack
the key to a culture of any business, isn’t it to have people come along on the journey, that the patient the purpose, but understanding why, why things are you’re doing it, but also why strategies and what and how those, like when you get into the interactive of certain strategies, and understanding within a fire wasn’t has been done, that everybody knows the benefit of those strategies? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that does it. And so people were the first part, then you talk about process. So

Conrad Travers
process. So again, process maps. And it’s not that hard, you know, just jump in a room with a whiteboard and talk about like, what do we do for new clients? What are all the different steps involved in that, for view meeting, who needs to be involved in the different steps are getting the client to come in the follow up the product performance component, and then putting it on a page and having everyone own and understand that, but then looking at via CRM, what you can do with workflows and automation to make sure that you, you kind of take risk off the table. So we asked the question in the room, how many people have you have done a process document that half had done it, but we said, having something is better than nothing? So let’s start on that journey so that you’re actually also de risking your practice. So if anyone gets hit by a bus, you’re in a much better position.

Fraser Jack
Now I want to ask you about where this leads because it’s great to do it on a whiteboard. And then you know, you know, get the post it notes out and put a little line Yeah, and have a bit of fun with it. But then when you do put that into it document and how do you then, like, keep that and to that you can recall it and everyone can see it. What do you suggest?

Conrad Travers
Yeah, like we’ve got clients who use Lucid Chart, which is like sort of a way to take from the whiteboard into an electronic version. So I would say there could be a good tool that you could use to go, these are the different steps and who owns the different layers. But then beyond that, you probably want to look at an operating procedure that actually builds that out into more depth to say, what do those steps mean? So I’m not talking about a 15 page document, but something five or six pages that actually says this is the step involved in that component. And then on the back of that you can do some really good training with with staff so I can understand exactly what your expectations are around that process.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. Now that easy, easy to say, when you love when you love written documents, some advisors might not. But I think that there is certainly a way that they can do that with regards to just recording a conversation around like, what are the six points they need to make around that Lucid Chart or that visual?

Conrad Travers
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, whatever works for you. But look, the main point is do something. Like if you’re in a place where you’re using x plan, but your some of your files are saved on your mind docs, this is what you picked up and you cyberspace, right? Yep. And you’re using your email, and you’re kind of bumbling along, just take it to the next level about the things that you can control to just lift the bar a little bit, not saying go over and beyond, like from a compliance perspective, but just continual improvement.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. And then let’s get into the zoom in the awesome process. That was all good. Yeah. And tell us about the third part.

Conrad Travers
So ongoing service. So we talked a lot about that. There’s a lot of questions. So there’s a couple of components here. Firstly, make sure staff understand why it’s really important. The second one is, when you have a contractual arrangement with a client, try and limit it to like one or two services that you can actually show evidence of delivery of, from a contractual perspective. If you have all the services that you deliver beyond that, put it in your marketing information, but don’t sign up for that. And then make sure that your CRM proves delivery of those services within that time period is

Fraser Jack
interesting. Because it got really vague, didn’t it? It was the let’s just make it one thing. And they could be. Yeah, exactly. And have you seen that come back to bite

Conrad Travers
practices? Yeah, well, and this is the thing that what ASIC is saying is that the review is the main service. So don’t feel like you’re not adding that much value if you’ve only got two services in their contract, because the client is going to see the advisor as the main point of contact and the value of that relationship. What it says in the contract isn’t that important. But from a remediation perspective, it’s really important. And it’s really important that when they have those interactions with clients, and the review, that that’s really well documented on their CRM, and a really practical tip is a lot of them have access to your advisor is one of the services. And what we would say is don’t just rely on your one 800 Number, actually have a contact in the CRM to say I call this client, and that provided ticked off that requirement. Does that make sense?

Fraser Jack
Yeah. Okay, so So, yeah, good, good. Good. Good point, access to advisor, I think you would see that a lot. How whatever things in there that you think we should be very careful.

Conrad Travers
Yeah, well, the other thing is around fee disclosure statements. And that is probably getting a bit technical here. But we found with there’s a report called RG 636, where they went through the mid tiers, they found 75%, non non compliance. So this is a document that everyone’s getting wrong. And the main reason is like one GST in the way that the platform’s treat that versus how we think of GST. And the second one is how revenue is produced from the revenue companies that feed into external, whatever your CRM system is. So our main advice there is to make sure your FDS is are accurate and correct to the actual fees charged by the client, allowing for timing differences. So for example, the fee comes out at the 13th of the following month, you want to be really careful if you’re producing that report on the 30th of June to make sure that the the FDS is accurate. So I know that’s really kind of in the weeds, but it’s really important.

Fraser Jack
It is a big point. It’s it’s a difficult one, though.

Conrad Travers
It is it is so some licensees, and I know this isn’t great, but they will go back to the fund manager record and go to the actual transaction before the document goes out to make sure it’s correct.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, that’s, that seems like, again, from a process point of view, it’s it’s it’s a long process. Very difficult. And tell us a little bit about the the engagement in the in the session that you had, because I know a lot of people got involved and wanted to share things. Yeah, look,

Conrad Travers
we need to think of a better name than compliance because as soon as you say compliance, like advisors look at issues. But really what we’re thinking about is actually advice process and how to make you more effective and efficient. And so there’s a lot of things that advisors can control right now that they’re feeling just overwhelmed and fatigued about. So one is your attitude. So if you get an audit, and you don’t like the outcome, there’s a lot of like, angst around that. So just thinking about flipping that from a growth mindset perspective and going like what can we learn from this? How can we improve our systems and processes? That’s what the best practices are doing? The lowest performing practices or the ones that are getting like just lost in the mode of I hate compliance. I hate hate. I hate the regulators. And they’re not wrong but they’re also it’s not going to help them deliver a great service for their clients if they want Since

Fraser Jack
it is certainly a logical process with a with an audit, and then there’s an emotional pieces in there Correct. Nobody likes to get a bad marks or nobody likes to get, you know, told that they’re not doing what they should be doing. There’s kind of like a fear that comes over across table.

Conrad Travers
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But we need to break down the s&m component of that, and actually just talk about, okay, on the back of the QA, we’ve got a really good opportunity here to reduce the paperwork and focus on the so work. So it’s quite interesting that Africa say that when they review SOPs, they can’t actually find the advice. Isn’t that fascinating? So, so I think on the back of the QA, er, and Michelle Levy, saying, over to you, you determine how you want to document your advice, that is an unbelievable opportunity for us to go. This is how we want to document that whether it’s a video Soi, whether it’s a six page summary, to say, basically, what are you recommending? Why are you recommending it? And what are the next steps? That’s what we need to really cover off in all the other information analysis that you’ve done sit on file. But that’s a bit of a game changer. If people get the head around that I think all

Fraser Jack
of those things are still valuable to the conversation. So clients want to actually know that information. And yeah, and to be able to say that or put that in, I like to think of the idea that one day we’ll actually have financial plans, not statements of advice. Absolutely. That’s my mission to try and get that and my other mission is to try and change good advice to professional advice. Those are my those are my tips. Hey, Conrad, thanks so much for coming in and chatting with us today. Sounds like your session was amazing. No problem. The deck was really good. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Danni Visser
Good afternoon, everyone. We are back on air still here.

Fraser Jack
Look, we’re on the homestretch.

Danni Visser
We are on the homestretch and we are where we’re trying to find some sort of drink to keep us going. These conversations are actually really exciting. So that’s the energy that we need. Welcome back, everyone. Hello, Fraser. Hello. Thanks for sticking with oh, I’m here episode is in the mini laundry. 30 Well, we everyone will be excited to know that we have Ben Donald joining us.

Ben Donald
Yes. I don’t have a drink with me. I’m sorry. Yeah, you

Danni Visser
were supposed to bring a drink Ben’s the bribe that I got to be here. Thanks for joining us, Ben. Now you have been doing some really important work on behalf of the FPA to attack to address the talent gap then everyone is aware of who is in advice. Before we get to what you’ve been speaking today at the FPA Congress on? Can you tell everyone a little bit about yourself? Because you’ve you’re a bit of a big cheese? That’s a tip. Yeah.

Ben Donald
Well, maybe for a bird a mouse or two? How good a question is that? Yeah. It’s quite intimidating. All right. So everybody, my name is Harvey Specter.

Fraser Jack
Ben Big Cheese Donald.

Ben Donald
Yeah, well, we’ll just stick with everybody. So I work at a company called Austbrokers. Life, we are a specialist Life Insurance Group. In fact, just last week, we cracked a big number is kind of horrible, but kind of great. At the same time, we got $7 million worth of claims paid in one week now. So we have advisors all over the country. Last financial year, I think we did 37 million in claims. And we partner with a lot of financial planners who don’t want to do risk. And it’s a two way street, obviously, for looking after the client. I’ve been in the industry for maybe 1314 years, and to be honest, quite jealous of the professional year program that has been instituted by the FPGA and by the industry as a whole because I remember my first client meeting, and cringe every single time. Yeah, it’s not a great memory.

Danni Visser
All quit growing phase, has gotten a little bit of structure and training and help and a lot of hours training. Yeah,

Fraser Jack
I think as you said that every single person listening to this podcast, cringed at the same time.

Ben Donald
It’s not a decision that we just did. I actually pointed to the lady that’s sat next to me during that meeting, and she had a good laugh, because it was so bad that she actually remembers it as well. If that client is out there, I’m really sorry.

Danni Visser
Isn’t that a fantastic? No, but I think that’s really important to point out because I think as an advisor in a relationship, you’re always hyper aware of being the expert. But that’s very unnatural. There’s a learning period, and we have to be a bit more comfortable. I think, of making mistakes and saying silly things and asking the question in good intentions. Because that’s all part of growing and learning and developing. And I think sometimes we’re also afraid of saying I just don’t understand that term, I should or I don’t know that or can I ask this question? And so this professional year program and year that advisor would spend doing that is such an amazing opportunity to just that permission to be the person who’s learning and knowing

Ben Donald
to make mistakes, to ask questions to, as you say, to say that, hey, I don’t know what I’m doing here. Can you please help me? And I think reflecting on my own experiences coming into the industry, I really, really, really would have appreciated that because I went from being the assistant or the client service manager filling out the paperwork and all that sort of thing and sitting in on those meetings, but not really partaking in those meetings. I was introduced. So you know this has been he’ll be assisting us But that was the limitation of my engagement. And then, you know, fast forward a year, it was right open, there’s the door, go walk through it, the clients in there. And it really was sink or swim. And I think I was resuscitated about four times in the first six months. But it’s worked out in the end.

Fraser Jack
And so now you’re gonna go through the professional year sounds like

Ben Donald
I’ll tell you what, the guy sitting next to me, Michael, he’s 26 years old, and he looks nothing or behaves nothing like I did as a 26 year old, I still struggle today. So yeah, I think the level of professionalism that’s coming from the professional year program is, it’s absolutely wonderful.

Danni Visser
And what is the FBI doing to support that year,

Ben Donald
so the FBI is hosting quite a few events. So on the, I guess, the PR, or the marketing front there, they’re engaging with universities, I think that might be extended into high schools very shortly, looking to grow the perception and the awareness of our industry, because obviously, historically, we haven’t had the greatest reputation. And that’s all sort of turning around,

Danni Visser
haven’t been very loud about it. That’s well, like, yeah, the

Ben Donald
other people have been loud about us not being the greatest swear, my view. And everything that I’m trying to push with my current sort of output into the market is that I think everybody listening who’s a financial adviser, you just sort of need to look in the mirror, lift your chin a few inches and realize that we are absolute rockstars, there’s never been a better time to enter into the industry and the FBI facilitating that really, really well. So they’ve got the py program, which obviously goes through the year, or however long it takes for an individual to complete it. And they facilitate a lot of training, or sorry, they, they put a structure and a framework around that training, they’ve got bits of technology that you as an advisor can use and tap into, which makes everything really easy to record that training and keep a track of what you do. Yeah, because you know, the last thing you want to do as an advisor is more paperwork. And a lot of advisors out there might think now that bringing on a py is more paperwork, the FDA and a few other organizations have seen that that’s the case. So they’re doing everything they can to get in front of that. So the tech already exists to help with bringing on a py. And the message that I would sort of send to a lot of the advisors would be that investing in a py is a sorry, in a person who’s complaining that py is actually a really good investment. Because no matter what happens, the person who’s walking in the door is somebody who’s trying to grow their career trying to improve. And so we’ll be paying much more attention to the processes and the strategies and the engagement of the client than than your average person. And they’ll be doing everything they can to improve themselves.

Danni Visser
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And look, I think, when the professional year was announced, there was a lot of questions, there was probably not as much support because it does take some time to understand where the support is best placed. And you’re talking about, you know, tools that can can manage and keep track of the training and add an x y, we’re partnered with CFS, and we’ve got a space where p y. I guess what are your participants candidates are they’re going through a year, they’re going through the professional year. So there could be an associate advisor doing that. They can then talk with other people who are experiencing that same thing and ask questions in that safe space. Yeah, building like a peer group. Exactly. So there’s, again, like all of these things, they’re industry challenges. And we can all chip in to make sure that that journey for someone starting out who were all very keen to have more people start out in that journey is seamless. And so I think those spaces where there’s live events that are obviously providing that sort of community, one on one in person, and then you can kind of walk away from that. And also, if you are an employer of someone through professional years, I think there’s a bit of a myth that it’s a huge burden. And perhaps it was when when the when you know that that whole professional you kicked off, but there certainly are like we’ve got the CFS tech team inside x y asked like answering questions, not only for PII wise, but also the employers

Ben Donald
pretending to be the

Danni Visser
Facebook questions. So I would say that yeah, your comments here been around saying to practitioners who’ve got those firms and to encourage someone to go through that year. Yeah. So

Ben Donald
the infrastructure, it’s taken, it’s, you know, leaps and bounds that it’s grown on to make it easier and easier. And I think now there’s 1000 students registered with the FPA the moment so the numbers are starting to race. But I’m just what you mentioned before about having a pig or, again, that’s one of the things that I would have to tell you that out of sight, if I’d had that coming through. So that’s, that’s a brilliant.

Fraser Jack
It’s one of the things I said originally when I was young young advisor with a group we had a young advisors club, it was it was really great. Yeah, one of the one of the one of the things that is in the back of somebody’s mind when they’re employing a py is around and this is saying whether they’re employing apprentices in a different type of business, is that you training people up and you really want those people to stay. And so I think there’s a, you know, there could be a bit of a scenario where there’s a hot demand for newly qualified people to come into it. What are your thoughts on it? Yeah,

Ben Donald
so you cannot deny that there’s a lot of large institutions that are offering large amounts of money. And I think the way that you sort of To demonstrate your value back to the professional year, individual is build a culture with and build a rapport. Because you’ve got a year basically, at a minimum, you’ve got a year to build a level of connection and engagement with the individual that would make them want to stay on. And if they’re, if they’re learning from you at that pace, they’re getting exposure to clients, you’re having open and honest conversations about that individual’s growth, about their contributions, shortcomings, whatever it might be, then I think invariably, those people that want to go are going to want to stay on with you. And even if you go, like, let’s, let’s go the worst scenario where you put in all this effort into an individual, and then they, you know, after 12 months, or whatever they want to go somewhere else. Again, I’ll just go back to the fact that the person who’s in your company is an individual who is self motivated. And they’re not rare, but they’re, they’re not the most common people, those individuals that actually want to strive to grow, they want to improve themselves. So they’re paying much more attention. And they’re making that extra effort. And what you’ll find as an advisor, let’s say in the first couple of weeks, you teach them how to fill out a certain type of form, you’ll find that if you or somebody else had to do that form in a couple of weeks time, you won’t see the return on investment and having that person come through the ranks and almost pay like your assistant is, is something that pays off really, really quickly. I

Danni Visser
think it’s a really good point that you will you just you made a something that clicked in my head with you take on someone who’s in that professional year stage, you’ve actually got a whole year, probably more likely to have that person for a full year and be able to invest in their development and also build that build that rapport. And it’s interesting when we speak or people tend to say, look, I’ve moved on or I wasn’t happy, or an advisor will say like made all this investment into someone they just left. Yes, that does happen. But a lot of times the second question, Will did you have that employer employee value proposition? And then the answer is no. Yeah. And the open and honest, transparent conversations are so important, because they are ambitious. And they kind of need a reason to stay. And if you’re not having those conversations, and there’s no expectations, or you’re promising things, I think the biggest piece of feedback when we were talking to professional year, people was that I was promised this stuff that didn’t actually eventuate. But there was no conversation around. Maybe it made sense that it didn’t eventuate but it just wasn’t spoken about. So all the promises, then I started Yeah, nothing came to fruition. And I was kind of just left thinking, Well, why would I? Why would I trust this employee employer relationship, which is, I don’t want to invest into it, because it just, I was told things that didn’t eventuate. So I think that conversation is really important and not over inflating what you can offer someone.

Fraser Jack
I think I think there’s another thing to that too, and that we’ve all been around now for a number of years within the within the profession, some more than others. And but you know, like, you might work with somebody very similar. You work with somebody, and then you work with them again, somewhere else, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, you’re you’re mentoring them into a position, and even if they do leave, they might be leaving to get to experience somewhere else. But then later on, you might find yourselves I come back together. Yeah,

Ben Donald
I think as an advisor, if you, you know, you talk about the value proposition, right. So we’ve all we all tried to relate that back to our clients in terms of a client value proposition, I think you’ve got to do the same sort of thing as an employer as well what the value proposition is to a young person wanting to come in. But be honest with yourself in terms of what you’re promising them but then as an advisor, look to the resources around you. So the FPA has got a great program. You know, x y is obviously got a great program as well working with CFS, there are lots of institutions in there. And pretty much every stakeholder in the industry at the moment is looking for ways to improve the supply of advice. So as an advisor, reach out to your peers and find out what they can do to help and provide support in that area.

Danni Visser
Because what are the figures out there? We need? I mean, I’ve heard a lot of figures thrown out there. But 2000 advisors is what we need as an industry to replace the current need in firms that are looking to recruit another advisor, two to 3000. It fluctuates between that but there’s a huge number, right? Everyone needs. There’s no

Fraser Jack
that’s just a catch up to where we should be.

Ben Donald
Worth 30,000 At one point, yeah.

Fraser Jack
Crazy. Hey, thanks so much for coming on and chatting us with the podcast and about the people of Hawaii. I really appreciate you coming in and sharing what happened in your session today.

Ben Donald
Thanks very much, guys.

Danni Visser
Thanks Ben