The Art of Trust #4 – Transcript

Fraser Jack
Hello, and welcome back to the series on the art of building trusted relationships of trust is an unconscious feeling which is felt by somebody. And building trust is complicated. And with as we look at the research, in this final episode of our series, we hear from our speakers about the feeling of somebody acting in your best interest. Paul, let’s get into the conversation. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us on this the fourth episode and fourth and final episode of our series, we’re talking about the concept of the feeling that you get when somebody is generally acting in your best interest.

Andrew Inwood
This is a really interesting part of trust, frozen is probably the most important part of it. It’s the idea that that you are aligned with someone that someone who you are working with is absolutely part of your tribe and absolutely representing you and working for it. In the trust research that particularly the stuff which has come out of Michigan by David McNeil Whistler is referred to as benevolence. And that doesn’t mean giving a means aligned beliefs. So the concept of having a line believes is really important. And one of the things that we’re always looking for when we’re looking for people to provide services for us is that the idea that they’re going to be working with us in our best interest. And this is, I think true of every service provider, it’s why we have I have a favorite dentist, I have a favorite doctor and I have a favorite financial adviser, because I’ve known them for a long time. So repeated behavior. And reliability is really important in that construct. And we’ve talked about that before. But knowing what they’re going to do and how they’re going to act under pressure also becomes really interesting. The idea that you’re paying someone to expend energy to transform you and your life means that they absolutely have to be treating you individually and act in your best interest. The moment that you get a sniff of the idea that you’re just part of a cohort, or you’re part of a group or that the person isn’t caring about you, then your behavior starts to change. Now this is really important to financial services, because to really, really critical drivers in this one’s demographic and one’s economic. So the demographic one is that we’re getting the fastest growing group of old people that were ever had in the world. So the number of people turning 57, which is the most common age of retirement in Australia is rapidly rising. And so as you approach that 57 year anniversary starts pay attention to your money for the first time for a long time, the data says that about five years out, you start paying attention to it. And then five years after you repay, you’re paying a lot of attention to it. So they get a decade of people paying a lot of attention to the money prior to that you don’t care because you’re in your accumulation. And after that you don’t care because he used to living on what you used to living. So the act of accumulating is a relatively homogenous, which means it looks the same. So you’re focused on price, you focus on record keeping a little bit on service. But as soon as you start to D cumulate. It’s really personal. It’s heterogenous. And that’s the time that service and intimacy become really important. Being able to articulate really clearly to your planner, what you want to view planets be able to reflect that back to you. And constantly come back to you and say when you came and spoke to me, you said you wanted or said you were trying to achieve. And this is what I’ve done to deliver on those kinds of things and being able to stay in touch with you on that basis. The data on this is pretty clear. You’ve got to make that conversation and anchor on that conversation in about every 90 days and keep reflecting back to people that you’ve listened to them and that you’re delivering against their needs. Now, understanding that people’s needs will Change, understanding that when you first get to know people, they might not be as honest about their needs as they might necessarily want to be. And understanding that if you’re working with a couple, those needs might not be aligned, those things become really important to understand. But that’s really critical. So one of the big groups of things that you might be doing when you’re first starting building relationships with people are starting to really understand what their drivers are, what motivates them, really understand what their, what their intentions are, and then reflecting that back to them, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to believe that in the same things as them, they might be saying, I want to give all my money to the People’s Front of Judea, and you might think that’s insane. But that’s their need, right? So you need to be able to reflect that and deliver against it. And make sure that the people understand that you that you’re involved in it and making sure that that’s happening, making sure that you can constantly anchor that not say to them, Why are you doing that you’re an idiot, that’s a bad thing. And making sure that people sort of can see evidence of the behavior that you’re giving them the year alone.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, this is a really important thing that, you know, I’ve heard people say all the time, people don’t want to be heard, you know, and you want to demonstrate that you’re listening in you, you can hear what they’re saying. And then we overlay there’s a lot of technology out there these days that have gone from the fact find meeting of really sitting down and listening and asking a few questions. And just going deeper and deeper to online fact find, you know, pretty details and information in here. How do you see that changes in well with, you know, going more online or digital, for fact find versus, you know, spending more time in this space of really just sitting down and just having conversations about so there’s

Andrew Inwood
a couple of core themes on this. And I don’t want to get too overly baggy about this. But the digital systems of understanding what people are actually doing are getting better and better and better. And I know that you’re into this, you understand that the new computer aided systems which are coming out of the US. And interestingly, China are actually getting better at picking up on stated beliefs versus revealed behaviors and understanding what’s going on. So I think there’s a bit of that’s going to happen in the future, I think that the advisors will get better and better training on actually asking the questions and understanding what’s going on. But I think that people who had come to advice from a technical background and want to work in a technical background, will either pass off that role to somebody else, so that they get to do it. And I think that will really good at start putting those people and their beliefs into cohorts so that we can satisfy satisfy them on mass, everyone we talked to before about Dunbar’s number, the net number of relationships, I think we could hold one time is 150. In the last 12 months, the number of clients that are good advisors, God is gone from about 124 to about 152. So at the moment advice is full, we’re going to achieve scaling advice, we have to find ways to satisfy people on mass or get a lot of advisors really quickly. So one of the ways that we need to be able to do that is to be able to actually have benevolence on mass. And the only way we can do that as understand people’s drivers on mass getting scale and that hasn’t yet been satisfied. We’re still doing that individually in hand to hand. But I think that there are systems and processes coming down the pipeline that are going to work in that space. And my expectation is that the platforms will be the big players in that space, if they’re not already starting to think about.

Fraser Jack
So in order to do that I’m in my immediate five immediate idea goes straight to if you’re looking for drivers on mass, you then work out the drivers and you put people into categories and you say, hey, all you people are, you know, Collingwood supporters, if you want to use that analogy we used earlier, or whatever it might be and then using all of you people, you’re all of you like this, you’ve told us you like that, and then being able to do it that way that yeah,

Andrew Inwood
so you wouldn’t ever tell them that because people were reflecting on they hate the idea of being caught up or being stuck into cohorts. But the way in which you would do it is simply understand the drivers that satisfy those cohorts and start to reflect that new communication. And there are already systems that are that are actually doing a doing that quite quite effectively and that governments are actually doing it. And if you want to look at that, you can have a look at the Nudge Unit in the UK and the Nudge Unit which is in Canberra who operating that space. The Nordics are also very good at the nuttiness. One of the ways of thinking about this as though there’s a bunch of presentations that you’ll see, which is about intergenerational Generation X, Gen Y, Gen, Zed, et cetera, et cetera. I think it’s a poor explanation of the way in which people behave, the possibly a better way or a richer way is is breaking people up into behavioral cohorts that you can make that as fine or as gross as that you want to the post union analysis says that there’s kind of four big behavioral grow horses, people who are controllers and people that want to control every aspect of their life. There’s people who are externalized as people who want to display every act of their life, there’s people who are coach seekers that want to actually just seek help all the way through everything. There’s people who are worriers, who want to who want to worry about what’s going on. If you can break that people up into those kinds of those kinds of cohorts, you can start to reflect what’s going on. Controllers tend to want to manage things themselves. So they want digital access, and they want to be able to do it. They want to be able to trade and do all those things themselves really interesting. Well, they also tend to be wealthier because they benefit from education and doing all those kinds of things. So some recent work we’ve done in the high net worth. area shows how much they want everything to be online and they can do it. They want to be able to trade themselves, which of course, is difficult, but that’s the way it is worry is simply want to pass control to somebody else, they don’t want to do it, they don’t want to engage in it, they’re just worried about it. And all they want at the end of the day is to know that it’s safe. So if you look at the stack, and while controllers want the ability to see their information online and play with it, worriers clearly want the ability to do understand that they’ve got good income security.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, it’s interesting. And I love the idea of, you know, segmenting those people within your existing client base and be able to send them different copy. You know, if you want control of this, then blah, blah, blah, we’ve got the thing for you. If you’re worried about that, then we’ve got this, you know, so to be able to look at what the communications that you’re sending out on a regular basis, because we talked about that. And then be able to control then what that what those what the words are in that email all the

Andrew Inwood
other way to think about it. And this is a really interesting way to think about it is just say, Well, who do I work best with? How can I put 150 controllers in migraine because I work really well with controllers, I work really well with people who want a number in every sentence, I might work with really people who are timeframe every since they tend to want less of an emotional relationship with me, they want a fact based outcome based relationship with me, whereas warriors want to cuddle. So I mean, they’re the they’re the kind of polar opposites are in the kind of behavioral scheme. So understanding that who you work with, some people are great with words, I’ve got a friends who are advisors who are unbelievably warm and friendly and approachable and have an avuncular relationship with their clients, but also got advisors who are my friends who are, you know, who are just, you know, kind of right brained hard assets, just just the numbers, and their clients love them for that. So you, you know, trying to satisfy both is hard. You can only have 152? How many of the 152? Can you have that look most like you that you find personally this is the satisfying the wealthiest, because that’s going to drive the integers for both of

Fraser Jack
you. Yeah, thinking exactly right. It goes back to what your authenticity is, and what how you want to be? How will you want to behave? And because the idea is that you’re going to behave that way for a long period of time.

Andrew Inwood
Yeah. And you also find it easier. Fantastic. Andrew, thank

Fraser Jack
you so much for being part of the series, I really appreciate your insights and, and your references and your research in all the other people like humans that have come before you and done this research that you just happen to know, know, all that information. So it’s been fantastic to have you along. Really appreciate it.

Andrew Inwood
Oh, it’s my absolute pleasure. I’m always interested in this idea. Because, I mean, I think industry is really important, the better we get at it, the more people we can help. So thank you.

Fraser Jack
Fantastic. And if somebody wants to continue a conversation with you, what’s the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Andrew Inwood
Just email me. I’m Andrew at core data.com. Today, you and I tend to respond. I’ll try and be as reliable and as authentic as possible. My responses.

Fraser Jack
Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jane. Thank you for joining us again, in this the final episode of our podcast series, The Art of trust. In this episode, we’re talking about the feeling that people get when somebody else is acting in their best interest. Welcome to the conversation. Hi, Fraser,

Jane Ryan
thank you for having me.

Fraser Jack
Thanks. Fantastic to have you along. Now, let’s, let’s dive in here. Tell us a little bit about what your thoughts are around what you know what that feeling is and how that comes about, well,

Jane Ryan
this is the right thing to do. So people that are not acting in someone’s best interests always surprises me. Look, again, a part of that conversation piece with clients is explaining to them if you are in this current position. And after some conversations and some research, I come back to you and my recommendation is that the pathway is moving forward. But we’re potentially going to to move off a little bit. For different reasons. It might be a replacement of product or change of insurance or changes to their, to their contributions to superannuation, for example. It’s explaining if they want to get into the technicalities of it, the deep sense of technicalities, but it’s explaining about here’s the reason why I’ve recommended it. Here’s the benefit. So we’re always talking about advantages and implications, because that’s very important that transparency around that is important. But this helps to get you know, let’s go back to what those original goals and objectives were. And and if it’s been over a period of time that the strategy has changed, and we’re still linking it back to those goals and objectives. And perhaps over time, the goals and objectives themselves are starting to move a little bit. This is why this is the best option for you. And I’ve considered these and these, this is the reason why that doesn’t work. So it is about really laying laying it out. And you know, I talked to two people about I call it the salad bar of advice and I say you may have come to me because you weren’t talking to someone about superannuation and they were all talking about how certain funders performed or how this has happened and why I that’s happened or they’ve seen something on the TV. And it’s about explaining all of that information. So answering, you know, those initial inquiries, but it’s about ensuring that they’re on their pathway, and then on the pathway of somebody else, because I, as we spoke about before, where I encourage people to, to tap into, to my knowledge, and if they’re going to send me a text at 10 o’clock at night, because they heard something, or they read something, that’s fine. And I’ll explain what that is. And that’s, you know, this is not in your strategy. And this is the reason why, or it actually is in your strategy. But we’re calling it this, remember this, this is what we spoke about, so that I have to arm them with all of the information that is acting in their best interest is them walking away saying, firstly, I’m, I have trust in Jane or I feel that I can start to invest some of my trust in Jane. So it is them feeling vulnerable about the trust space. But it’s also about them saying, I feel I’m in control of this, it’s not Jane being in control, she’s putting me in control, and we’re going down the pathway together.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, well, so much in that I really love, I really love the fact that when you start talking about that, you have this, this belief in your voice, as in you, you know, you know, undoubtably what it is that you’re talking about when it comes to the, you know, the advice, or the product or the conversation or the salad bar, and just being able to and I love the salad bar analogy, too, by the way, but just I think I feel like some of that, all that stuff that you just said, comes through in your mannerisms and your tone and the belief that you have in what you’re saying?

Jane Ryan
Yeah, look, you know, it’s, it’s important that because people think they, you know, they’re coming to you for this, they have an objective, but I was explained that I have these little light bulbs going off in my head while we’re having those conversations around. Oh, so you came to me about that, but you just mentioned there, so I’m just gonna park that. And so that’s why I say we’re going to talk about the salad bar of advice, because you might have come to me about superannuation, but maybe we’re also going to be talking about some legacy planning, because you’re going to send your kids away to school, or there is an expense for braces, or you, you know, you want to help the kids out with cars, or you want to go on a holiday when you retire, or there’s certain things that you want to do. And so I’m I’m going to include all of that in that advice piece. And these are the reasons why because it’s in your best interest that you are informed about it, you’re well informed about it, and you can make some decisions around it.

Fraser Jack
Jane, thanks. Thank you so much for coming on, and sharing all of your thoughts and ideas and wisdom with us all. Really appreciate it. If somebody wants to continue the conversation with you, what’s the best way for somebody to reach out?

Jane Ryan
Well, they can they can contact me through my website, Fox wealth advisory.com.au. I’m on LinkedIn. I have a Facebook page for Fox wealth advisory. I have an Instagram page for Foxworth advisory. So yes, I welcome anyone to continue the conversation.

Fraser Jack
Wonderful. Thanks very much.

Jane Ryan
Thanks so much, Fraser.

Fraser Jack
Welcome back, Anthony. Thanks. Now we are talking about the concept of the feeling clients get sometimes conscious, sometimes unconscious of that somebody is has got their back, they’re acting in their best interest. And we you know, we have this concept of best interest that we’ve had for a long period of time. But tell me a little bit about how you talk to clients about that, or how you behave in that way to to demonstrate to clients that you’ve got their back,

Anthony Jones
I guess it’s really interesting that, you know, when all this sort of best interested in things came out, because I guess my philosophy was was Well, Well, isn’t that what we’ve always been doing? Like? Isn’t that what we do? That’s our job. And look, I know, there’s always been some people that may or may not, but I think that happens everywhere. So it’s not not endemic just in our industry. But I think again, just some of the things we’ve talked about previously about just going through things like a process explained to people what to expect, how we’re going to operate, et cetera. I think that that starts that demonstration process. And then it’s up to us to then I guess, deliver that value and explain that value that we’re adding to the client so that they feel that in fact, we are acting in their best interest and it has been well worthwhile than them coming in. And as far as that’s concerned, I think in the last episode, I talked about just ringing clients at random out of the blue don’t wait for your old to raise its note first November time for their review. Things happen. You know, during the year, things happen all the time. I mean, good example, at the moment, I’ve got a client who is quite unwell. I probably ring him every couple of weeks just because I want to see how he’s going. And he greatly appreciates doing that. And, of course, you know, I don’t have to and you know, his review is not due until whenever it might be but I think you know that then sort of permeates and through You know, people, their friends, other contacts I’ve got, because I know that, you know, I know, fortunately turned out to a funeral one time, and a lot of people come up to me said, I really appreciate the time that you spent with such and such before they passed away, and we sort of did that, do everything we possibly can. So I think that those sorts of things really demonstrate both to the client and also to others that you are caring for the client, they’re not just a number on an ongoing C type of arrangement, and that we are there to sort of help them as best we can. Yeah. And

Fraser Jack
also, there’s, you mentioned in one of the earlier episodes, the concept of you know, best interest as in, you know, we don’t charge a fee, if we can’t show additional value, I kind of think about this in two ways, you know, people are in a better position by mentally as well, you know, like all confidence wise, or relationship. They feel like they’ve got to make customers got their back, that puts them in a better position. But then you’ve also got the financial side. So there’s like two sides to that conversation.

Anthony Jones
Yeah, absolutely. There is an I think, yeah, the financial side is fairly quantifiable from an objective point of view. Then on the other side, I guess it Yeah, that becomes very subjective as to what is required, as far as that’s concerned, I think often, you know, sort of people say that, you know, you sort of read a lot of press, and markets have sort of come down. So you know, people appreciate you, you know, being then having their back, et cetera, et cetera. But it’s interesting that if, you know, we get very few phone calls during these sorts of periods, and I sort of put it down to, you know, we’ve tried to prepare clients as best we can, for that potential eventuality without saying, hey, this will happen. So often sort of challenge ourselves saying, Well, you know, do we really need to be there for them? Is that there’s the fact that they know that we’re there for them as important as actually doing something at the time. And I think that’s, it’s probably a really interesting sort of, you know, certain research someone could actually do on that, because I think we all assume it, yes, it is great, you know, we’d sort of tell clients don’t sell out or don’t do this, and don’t do that. But if we sort of looked at it, it only a small handful of clients would actually have a ring, and we talked to them at that particular time. But that may well be, you know, just something sending something out might be that at least they know, hey, I’ve heard from you, I know that you’re looking out for me. But we also give clients that expectation that look, we don’t control markets, and we can only manage their risk, we can’t really control, you know, outcomes. As far as that’s concerned, we’ve just got to make sure that they’re comfortable with, with those outcomes and, and the way they’re positioned for what their objectives are into the future.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I like the word dumb, comfortable. I think, you know, making clients comfortable is a very, very important part of it. And obviously, especially when markets are doing weird things going up quickly or down quickly. Now, you mentioned the concept of, you know, a couple of times hearing from them hearing from you hearing your voice, you would have spoken previously about the concept of email versus conversations, where they do get to hear your voice, say over the phone, tell us a little bit about how important phone call that to you over emails,

Anthony Jones
oh, my God, I think, you know, if we, if we could, if you had to choose one over the other, you’d get rid of emails tomorrow. I think they’re a convenient excuse a lot of times to have communicated or, Hey, I’ve contacted the client or whatever the case might be. But, um, uh, we’ve had clients that have been with us for four years, and you know, well before emails and, and well after, and, you know, we still spend a lot of time, you know, I spend the bulk of my time I try and eliminate as much as possible. And just emailing lists can be something that’s fairly sort of simple. Or if I get an email off and even call and say, look, I can put this in an email, and I’m happy to, but it’s probably quicker for me to explain to you the answer to your question. And it’s just a great, you know, great, you’ve don’t find anything out on email, whereas you just having a general conversation, how you’re going, or how’s the fishing trip? Or how was a holiday? Or how was this? How was that? It also sort of does, it gives you that great opportunity to demonstrate that you do care. I think, you know, most advisors do genuinely care about their clients. Sometimes. Maybe it’s sort of expected, but I think just to be able to sort of if you’ve got that opportunity to talk to someone, and outside that, as I said, I think previously just outside that normal review shedule just ringing someone and seeing if everything’s okay, is all it needs sometimes and it can only be a Sunday, a few minutes, clients don’t want to spend, you know, hours on the phone with you. You’re not necessarily their best friends are just sort of seen that they sort of think are you still there for me? And you know, because it’s like anything out of sight out of mind.

Fraser Jack
Here really interesting. I think also, I mean, it’s good, it’s good to be able to communicate via voice to somebody but also to listen and for them to feel like they’ve been listened to. Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony Jones
And because often, you know, I know myself, you know The way you’re writing emails can sometimes be very structured and very formal. But you know, when you’re sort of talking to someone, you could throw a joke in there, or you can make sort of light hearted. So things about it. And sometimes you can communicate that in a language to the client that’s a lot better, or specific to them, rather than just a sort of formal email. So,

Fraser Jack
yeah, I couldn’t agree more user voice. And I really love the concept of, you know, just focusing on that concept of demonstrating that you care about them and making sure that they can get that through whatever means or conversation is,

Anthony Jones
you know, I mean, that’s what we’re our job is, I think, I mean, at the end of the day, the number of strategies we can put in place for the average client, you can virtually put on one hand is not a lot. And I don’t think once you sort of have that knowledge of, you know, strategies and those sorts of things, I don’t think it’s overly difficult, I think the challenge is making sure that you’re able to communicate that in a very simple way to clients, because that’s what they’re there for. They don’t understand all the laws and those sorts of things. We need to do it simply. But we need also to do it in a way that really meets what they want to achieve, rather than saying, well, well, because sometimes you can optimize something to the nth degree mathematically, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best thing, you know, for that particular client. And until you spend a bit of time and you understand them and those sorts of things. And it’s going the extra mile, sometimes I’m I got called out to a client a few months ago. And I said, Oh, okay, yeah, more than happy to drop out and see. And all they wanted me to do was to be able to help them download their COVID certificates, because they couldn’t do it. And often, I find, particularly with some older clients, they’re actually embarrassed sometimes to ask their kids to do certain things I’m I’ve, I’ve had to scan medical reports, because they didn’t want the kids seeing them and send them off to specialists and those sorts of things. And they’re the sort of, I guess, the things that you do, and you sort of start to realize that, you know, people sort of do rely upon you for a whole range of things other than superannuation strategies and retirement strategies. And that’s really part and parcel, I guess, is our role.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I think it’s interesting to be able to find those moments where you can go the extra mile and just keep an eye out for them.

Anthony Jones
Yeah. And look, there’s always an opportunity. I never forget, several years ago, a client she’d broken her leg, and she had to get some documents to tax accountant, By four o’clock that afternoon for a lodgement. And, and she was panicking because she couldn’t, she didn’t, I just said, that’s fine. I’ll just drop her and pick them up and drop them into the city for you. Because it was 10 minutes out of my time. And she couldn’t believe that you’re gonna do something. And I said, Well, I said, now we’re the full river full service advisors are out here. So but you know, that sort of, it’s probably almost building up some of those little brownie points in a way. You know, I Yes, it does demonstrate. But it also means that, you know, we are going to make mistakes down the track or things aren’t going to work exactly the way you want. And I think that’s another thing too, is that when things don’t work out, I think you’ve got to get on to it, you’ve got to be very upfront with people. Because as we always said, Bad News never gets better with age. And I think it’s actually a great opportunity to demonstrate that you are looking out for people. I don’t think anyone expects anyone to be perfect. And often, you know, sort of sweep it under the rug and hope it never gets found. But you know, sometimes being very upfront and going through that process can actually add a lot of value.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, absolutely. Because let’s face it, not everything’s an easy conversation and not everything just goes smoothly. So it’s about leaning into those leaning into those moments. Anthony, thank you so much for coming and sharing with us on this podcast series. If they want to continue the conversation with you what’s the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Anthony Jones
Well, I am on LinkedIn, not a massive user but definitely on LinkedIn and our websites WWW dot Templeton’s dot com that I do that so it really appreciate it. Excellent. Thanks. Great.

Fraser Jack
Thank you for joining me again. Hello, Fraser. Welcome back. We are talking about the clients the feeling that clients get when they know that somebody is acting in their best interest. Thank you for being part of this conversation. What are your thoughts around the concept of how do advisors get to that point?

Anne Fuchs
I think the if the advisor was able to play back to that reflective listening, where they where they can show through their words, and then the deeds that they know the client’s heart and their what they’re worried it like if they can say, you know, I know you’re worried about, you know, this, this and this happening and that you worrying about how much longer you have to work for and how what you’re going to do about your rental property or how your cash if they can actually replay back to the client. The stuff that they’re actually the worries that have brought them there because ultimately someone’s going to a financial adviser because they’re worried they’re going to make a poor decision about they don’t know what to do. So, to play that back, we’ll give the client in my experience anyway. The highest degree of comfort that the advice they’ve been given is actually going to be really good in their best interest, it’s going to work and take that worry away.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. So it really, it really leans into the concept of listening to what they have quality and understanding what they’ve said. Thinking about it, playing it back to themselves taking the time, I guess that moment of time, let’s just quickly jump in and say, I’ve got the answer for that, by the actually taking the time to try that on themselves.

Anne Fuchs
Yeah, I think that’s you nailed it, and one that active listening will, you know, you and I have spoken in the past, over many years about phonology, that sort of science of actually understanding people’s emotional relationship with money. And you know, different cultures have different beliefs about money and their discomfort or comfort with investments, bricks, and mortar, cash, all of these things. And so, you and I also both know, there’s only a set number of strategies that advisors use in relation to whether it is accumulating into retirement retirement, you know, there’s a set number of strategies the power is, is actually the adviser. embedding the that person’s personality and emotional relationship with money and demonstrating they know how they feel about it, what they’re worried about. That’s the game changer, game changer in my mind.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. And you mentioned the the mentioned the word concerns and fears in the clients in the inside the clients head there, what, what are some of the ways that advisors can really get to understand the clients and, and I know you and I have spoken about, you know, some horror stories were in the client, where advisors haven’t really thought about, you know, what’s in scope, what’s, what the fee is going on. So the client did

Anne Fuchs
that. Yeah. And then ultimately, they’ll, they end up with a complaint in my, in my ear. And in these in these days, and times where the access to information, financial information, the internet, it’s so easy for people to get online and research. And we have had members call where they go and see a financial advisor, and they get the SOA and they go on, you know, they go and research this super fund. And that’s super fun investment performance. And if they don’t like the look of it, they’ll do nothing, which isn’t, it’s a lost opportunity. Because I know, you know, the data show, certainly here at Australian retirement trust the advisor, the members who are getting for regular advice are in an ongoing relationship, because they trust that relationship. They’re the ones that are making better decisions. So I think ultimately, advisors need to be thinking about, really that that risk profiling, the members level of comfort or client’s level of comfort with taking risk and change, and investments, financial literacy, these are the things where the adviser can win or lose trust in a heartbeat.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, and you mentioned that the concept of change being a fighter, and we sort of covered off in some of the previous episodes, you told a story. You told me a story a while ago about some members that have called out don’t go through those

Anne Fuchs
Yeah, just members where they’ve, where members do, if there are research trusting that they’re super fund is a is a big deal. It’s thick, 65% see that as one of the most important that their money is safe with their super fund. And because, again, just in my experience, there’s 2 million members here. Financial literacy is poor Fraser it’s really poor. And so therefore, if they’ve got their Superfund they’ve had it for years, that people don’t like change, they’re quite risk averse. And so they get worried when things and then they’ll call us and say, Oh, this advisor is recommending I do this, I don’t understand what’s a managed account. I don’t understand why. And so I just think, Oh, that’s a real shame. Because to mine, I love seeing advice, or seeing external advisors, work and advise our members, it’s because as I said, they’re better off off the back of it. They’re much better prepared for retirement than those that aren’t. And but what happens is the members instantly lost trust, in my opinion, in the advice profession, when that happens, they’re very unlikely to go and put their toe in the water again, for some more advice, and guess what they do? They do nothing. And then you’ve got one, one more Australian, who was not as prepared as they should be for retirement. And that makes me sad.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, we all know that financial advice is worth nothing if you don’t actually implement exactly

Anne Fuchs
and that’s if and that’s, that’s, you know, that’s not uncommon.

Fraser Jack
Yep. Yep. Tell me about from the your brains point of view in the work that you’ve done with the advisors, and working in the best interest advisors because I know that there’s been a long history that you’ve done work with financial advisors, and, you know, with working with those advisors to help those advisors in their practices.

Anne Fuchs
Yeah, well, I think trust I mean, if we’re talking about trust, let’s be honest, if I think back in 2015, there wasn’t a great deal of trust for advisors for some super back in the day or any Superfund I’d like to think we’ve come a really long way. And ultimately, it goes back to again, the the whether it’s the adviser the institution, it’s being able to demonstrate you know that That person’s worries was challenges. And as a superfund, we’ve got to be able to demonstrate that we know most small most advisors, a small business people, enormous regulatory burden, crazy regulatory burden, it’s, it’s really hard and expensive to provide financial advice. So if we can’t demonstrate that we understand about understand that, care about that and play it back and show what we’re doing to try and improve it, think is what the advisor won’t trust, you know, won’t trust the US as an institution. So I think it’s this whole value chain of trust, isn’t it, and you’ve got to show, you’ve got to be really honest about the stuff that you want to improve on what you want to do well, but again, playing back what’s important to the client? Is, is everything.

Fraser Jack
Yep. Talk to us a little bit about the philosophy because, um, you know, as a former member fund, we’ve always been able to talk to that as needed by members of the essentially the shareholders,

Anne Fuchs
yes, they are. And so it does the members, other members of the shareholders of the place, we do everything. And I know that sounds like a cliche thing, but it does prevent, we’ve spoken about transparency in a previous episode. And it does, what it does is you’re not having to worry about you can walk away from those decisions, that might be a bit gray from an interview, is this the right thing to do might be really profitable. But how, how does does this pass the analysis? Does this past the front page of the newspaper test? Is this? Does this feel right? Or does it feel like we’re profiteering on that? And that’s, I guess what’s particularly great about it, it also just makes sure we we don’t have to sort of second guess, who was making decisions for where I think it would be hard, you know, would be hard. I’ve worked in the retail industry, and I used to grapple with it a lot. Which is why I guess anyone that knows me knows I’m definitely home working in profit for member well, because you don’t have to think about that. You’re different masters. You’ve got one master. It’s those people as 2 million people and we’ve every day pay my salary. They pay my team salary, so we need to really work hard and honor it.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, fantastic. It’s certainly as I love that exciting, is it the right thing to do? And it’s always good to say I love asking that one of the kids from time to time when they

Anne Fuchs
because you can do it doesn’t mean you should do it. Exactly. It’s something you’re proud of.

Fraser Jack
Yes, exactly. Right. Very good now and if somebody wants to reach out to to anyone, if your team was probably what’s the best one

Anne Fuchs
I’d say just jump onto the website, Australian retirement trust.com.au. There’s a whole advisor section in there. The team has photos of their all their contact details. That’s probably the easiest.

Fraser Jack
Fantastic, thank you so much for coming along and joining me in this conversation.

Anne Fuchs
Thank you for having me, Fraser.