#47 Renate Jute – Transcript

Louis van der Merwe
Welcome to another episode of Financial Planners, South Africa. Today I have the privilege to have with me in the studio. Renate Jute. Renate is my study partner. We met this year both tackling the University of freestate Advanced Diploma in estate administration, as well as trust administration. And she has a passion for financial planning, as well as moving this industry forward. Renate, thank you so much for joining me today.

Renate Jute
Louis. Thank you. And thanks for having me. I quite look forward to having this chat with you.

Louis van der Merwe
Before we started, we kind of realized that somehow we are on the same mission in trying to move the industry forward moving away from purely transactional based relationships. But before we get to that, I’d love you to share a little bit of how you got into financial planning. And I know there’s a lot of other areas that you’re also busy with. So please, please share your journey with us.

Renate Jute
Sure. So I actually started on the financial planning journey. Whilst I was involved in trusts, I was a partner in a trust accounting firm. And I dealt with many clients coming through my doors when the trust had already been formed. And what would happen often is they would literally come through my doors and look like back in headlights, they had these documents and they had no idea what was now expected what was now to be done. All they knew they’d paid a lot of money for papers that they were never gonna read and had no concept of how this was supposed to work. And a big part of my role was not just the accounting, but really the guidance and the training of these trustees and breaking that mold of your but it’s my stuff and I can do what I want. And the concept of Yup, everyone must do what I tell them to do, because it’s my staff, and the CO trustees must just nod and smile and sign where I tell them to sign. So it was almost like educating and like realigning with what is a trust versus what you think may be a trust. And then what would happen from there is more and more what would happen is I would start having meetings with people that had been left behind when the main breadwinner was all of a sudden gone. And the rug had literally been pulled from under their feet. And for me, I realized that there was such a need in the market to move away from just the hit and run policy sales, to holding the hands of these people and often felt that there was some sort of a misalignment between what is happening and what should be happening. And by no means am I saying that people are doing things wrong. I’m just saying that sometimes maybe these not the real education people go bright eyed bushy tailed into the learnings of financial planning and you’re going to sell these products and this is what you’re going to do but they are not actually trained with why The what does it look like when someone dies? What does it look like when these products actually come? To be needed? Yes. aquasafe sold their life policy. But why? What does it look like when this product actually kicks in? What does that devastation look like when the person has lost a loved one, when the anxiety kicks in, when the loss kicks in, when the devastation kicks in, and they don’t know where to turn? They actually clueless they, they don’t know who who to turn to who to make decisions. What’s next. And that was what I often dealt with. So yeah, that’s where I end. I sat in my boardroom, the one day and a young broker came in with a client. And this client was not married. It was a youngster he was, I can’t remember. But for some reason, I think he this guy was like, luck. And it type guy, he worked from home. He was in his late 20s. He had no girlfriend even so no spouse, no girlfriend, no children. So I asked him, Well, are you financially responsible for your parents? No. Do you have special needs siblings? No. Do you have any siblings? No. But yet, this guy had close on a 10 million Rand life policy. And his broker was there with him. The broker had brought him to me. So they set up a trust for him. And it was one of these have so many trusts, like ideal client, for anyone to just slap some products onto him. And I said, Well, can you explain to me why you have a 10 million Rand life policy? And he said, I don’t know, ask this guy. And he pointed to the broker next to him. And through my whole meeting this broker in playing on his phone, which was already getting my hackles up, because he wasn’t paying attention to what we were talking about. So I say to the financial advisor, can you explain to me why you did a 10 million rent policy for this person? And his answer was cosy, qualified. Wow.

That was the day I decided I’m studying CFP. That was the day I contacted the Free State University. That was the day I started getting all my ducks in a row. And then at the next enrollment date, I enrolled because I’d had enough of people selling products that weren’t needed. Now, I’m not saying the guy didn’t need a 10 million Rand life cover. I can understand income protector, I can understand medical aid, I can understand retirement provision for this guy. But 10 million life cover that was not needed. He came from a relatively wealthy family. So the family didn’t need his money. But why? Because the broker was earning a commission. And for me, that was not the right product, the broker could have earned as well, a commission on selling him any other product. But it was easier to sell him the life cover and probably the quickest route. And again, I’m not here to say financial planners are doing the right or the wrong thing. I’m saying we should be ethical, we should stand back and go, What is it that we are doing? Are we doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. And that is my passion. That is why I then went into financial planning. And it must be said, I don’t sell any products. I work very closely with financial planners, accountants and attorneys to do high level estate planning, pre death and post death. So I work with families to ensure that there’s liquidity that is proper estate plans before people die. And when people have passed away, I help those families to sort out the estates, I work with the financial planners, with the attorney. So often, attorneys or auditors are appointed as the executors. And they will then come to me and I will walk the path with them to make sure that these things are done because my knowledge lies in accounting, in trust administration and in estate administration. So I have a wide spectrum of the knowledge base that’s required to do that. But yeah, for me, it’s really I think what I see is needed in financial planning is really the psychology of money. The Psychology of financial planning. That for me is the passion that I that my little flag, I’m waving, if I can call it that. And the ethics that goes with it. I really think, you know, at this stage, it’s like, Okay, how many CPD points do I need for ethics? Five? Okay, what’s the quickest I can get it? What’s the least effort I can do to get it? We for me, it’s really isn’t ethics what we supposed to be? Isn’t that? Shouldn’t we be wearing that ethics? Like a badge of honor? Shouldn’t people when they see us come down the street go, oh, that’s an ethical person. I know that person’s got my back. I know I can trust that person. that is so important for me. And that that was a mouthful. Maybe you wanted a short answer. Sorry, I should have given you the tweet.

Louis van der Merwe
It is lovely. And there’s so much that I’d love to unpack the last week I read a headline saying all we fake fiduciary is a fiduciary being acting in someone else’s best interest. And that made me wonder exactly that point that you have, you know, shouldn’t ethics and that fiduciary responsibility underpin what we have? I love how your response was to that client that was sold the 10 million life policies that, hey, I’m gonna go and study and upskill myself, as a lifelong learner, tell me a little bit about that journey and what empowering yourself with additional knowledge brings to you as a as a person, and then also as a person delivering advice and assisting other professionals.

Renate Jute
You’re sure. I think I’ve been writing exams and studying probably for the better part of 20 odd years now. I can’t remember a year when I haven’t studied and, and it’s not about having to have the next paper on my wall. It is really for me, it’s a it interests me. But be it’s always, if I know more about this subject, once I know more, how can I simplify it for others, so that they can use this information to offer a better service. Because if I look at it, my end user client is never really the the actual client as it is for the financial planner, if I can call it that. So the person on the street is not generally my client. My clients are generally the financial planners, the attorneys, the accountants. So for me, it’s more a matter of, I just like to specialize more and more and more. So although it goes broader into estates or trusts or financial planning, I then niche deeper and deeper into certain things. And it’s just because I like to know more. And like I’ve said to you, often when we in our study discussions, I love it when people tell me you wrong or no, this is not the right answer, provided they can say to me, and I refer to source, because then I learned something new, Nothing excites me more than learning something new. Now, I also appreciate that. Not for everyone, you know, not everyone wants to be a lifelong learner, I have such a respect and a value on people that have this passion I have on knowledge and data. Other people have this kind of passion for human relations. So other people will have this kind of skill in building relationships with other humans. I have such respect for that. And if that is your superpower, go forth and multiply. You know, if you can build incredible relationships with other humans, then that is your superpower and do so. But it is important to to always upskill and I think that’s where the CPD is come in. Again, that is why it’s necessary. You can’t just study, let’s say, and I know it’s not just the CFP, I know this other in financial planning, there are other accreditations as well. But if you go and study whatever your your part is, in financial planning, you do have to continuously at least upskill yourself with the latest knowledge, tax changes, financial planning rules, regulations change, laws change. I mean, if we look at and we are studying this now, just the banyo case that has been in the press so often, just that one case has impact on the interstate law, it’s got impact on the surviving spouses act. So it’s got impact on so many different acts. And if you are not up to speed with certain acts that change, how are you going to offer the best for your client. So it’s not to say that as a lifelong learner, that you have to always go and study the latest and greatest or get the, the next degree or the next diploma, but at least be up to speed with what’s happening out there. Read, listen, be part of discussions, listen to podcasts like this. Choose your method of what you enjoy. Choose your field that you enjoy, and do stick to some CPD at least the reason it’s the is to make sure that you are better equipped to offer a better service again to your client. So some will Be, as my husband referred to it Propellerhead academics. And that’s probably where I fall in because I’d rather have my nose in a book than to be with a group of people. But at the end of the day, if you are better with people make sure that the information you give those people is still in line with what is the latest information? Hope that answers what you’re asking?

Louis van der Merwe
Absolutely. And we’re not we are in an industry where you are expected to be the expert on almost everything. And so what you’re saying is that rather partner with someone that might really enjoy that specific field, and manage the relationships, but bring in these teams of people almost, but you have a very wide range of skills. And then you also seem to have gone quite deep. In some of them. You know, you’re the author of a book, you are a award winning business person, you do shows and you speak, you do so much, how do you manage your energy levels during a day

Renate Jute
show? Yeah, I think that’s important. You need to understand what gives you energy and you need to understand what saps your energy. And then I’m a big proponent of understanding your natural flow of energy. So certain people will have more energy early in the morning, other people will naturally have more energy later in the day. I know, for myself, for instance, from about 11 o’clock in the afternoon to about six o’clock, I can sit down and I can focus on very deep focus straight, like high level calculations, no interruptions, and I can literally it’s like five minutes have gone. But I cannot do that kind of focus work early in the morning, I just can’t. So I will do client meetings, telephone calls, emails early in the morning. But I also know I’m not an early morning person where you get people that operate at five in the morning, man I have tried and tried. It’s not me, my brain does not operate in club for you know, nothing, I have tried it. And it took me years to accept that I’m not going to be one of those 4am 5am My husband 4am 430. In the morning, it’s like a Jack Russell goes running around the block, I’m like, seven o’clock, is when my brain is gonna start working. Thank you very much. So understand where you fit in where your energy is, you cannot compare yourself to others. And if you understand that, your your energy comes from alone time, and you’ve been with a group of people they know when to have the cut offs, know when to say no, I think that’s often the thing is people don’t know when to say no. And they feel that it is wrong to say no, but you cannot serve from an empty cup, you cannot be the best version of yourself if you are depleted. So yes, you do. You have to decide what is important for you. And then of course, you know, sometimes the things that for you the most are not going to be things that bring money, or the other way around. If you are driven by money, then the pro bono things may not fill your cup. But if money is not your driver, understand that if you have to do things for money, maybe that’s not going to fill your cup. So it’s a first Know thyself that may be to understand where you will get your energy from. So people will often say, like, I’ve got someone I work very closely with, and now that I’m such a procrastinator, they’ll say to this person, and he used to really beat himself with a stick, I procrastinate. And I said, you know, understand what is procrastination, it is either driven by fear or confusion, you don’t know how to do something, or it’s that fear of taking the next step, or you just have no interest. So where did that come from frame. People wanted him to do things when it fell right into family time for him. And one of his highest driving forces is his family. His life absolutely revolves about family first. You know, he’s like he wants to fetch his goals from school. He wants to spend that quality time with his goals. And they are young. So they come from school, like in mid afternoon type, you know, like three, four o’clock, and that’s a quality time for him. So between let’s say three and six, that’s quality time because after that his goals go down. So if you want him to do things in that time, it’s going to look like procrastination for anyone else. But for him. This is quality time because for how long do you have your little goals before they are grown ups, doing their own things and you know, they no longer Daddy’s little goals? And once he got his mind around that knickers. Oh, but hold on between eight and 10 I do mount of work because now the kids are down the wife’s gone to sleep He, and all of a sudden you can focus. And it was like a complete mind shift for him. And all of a sudden, it’s like, okay, I have all the meetings before three, the admin that do work do after the kids have gone to school, and all of a sudden production kicked in again. So you see, it’s just understanding how you have put together and what is important for you. And remember, that may change from time to time, it may be like that for this year, next year, it looks different again. So maybe that that helps. And maybe that’ll help for people that listen to this. Sometimes we say, easy to beat ourselves with a stick because we don’t look, sound and act like other people, but we need to be who we are in be who you are everyone else’s take.

Louis van der Merwe
What stands out for me is those labels, you know, someone else is saying, Oh, you procrastinate or someone else’s saying that you’re a morning person or you’re an evening? person? And how the benefit of just someone independent someone on the outside gets a well hold on? Is this really the case? You’ve been telling? You’ve been told that thing all your life? Earlier in our conversation you mentioned about the psychology of money. And that’s a passion that I think we also share, that maybe that’s why we get along. So well? Would it be possible for you to share a little bit of your story around around money and kind of how that shaped you as a person?

Renate Jute
Sure. Yeah, I think, again, for me, it was a question of possibly how I grew up and how I saw how people behaved around money. And I actually then did a, I’ve never even told you this, I’ve actually written a, like a little webinar on a program around money EQ. Because what I found was, the behavior around money comes from a very young age, and what we see, and the lack, we perceive those things are ingrained from a very, very young age. And unless we get to deal with it, and understand where it comes from, and the limiting beliefs, the the have nots, the contacts, the, the triggers, and those little buttons that get pressed, and how that then, later on, determines our future behavior. And why we would then do certain things, we when we don’t understand a where it comes from, we don’t know how to deal with it. And we never realized that that’s our driving forces, we never realize that that will push us to do certain things. And we never fix our money behavior. So we will continuously repeat certain behavior, we will continuously overspent continuously self sabotage continuously live on the edge. Because certain behaviors at a very young age create a certain pattern creates a certain feeling in us. It’s almost like that adrenaline junkie, you know that living on the edge. At a very young age, something happens where we get that behavior, and we like that feeling. And if it’s tied to money, we will continuously living the you know, it’s like we always have too much month after our money because we living on the edge continuously. And we don’t realize that it’s a pattern that we’ve created. So yeah, that’s this is something that we don’t often understand. And I think what’s sad is that we go and study something like financial planning, but we’ve never even looked at our own behavior and our own financial patterns. Yet, we are now expected to advise other people on this. And that’s why I think coaching is such an integral part of financial planning. If, if we’ve not discovered who we are, how are we going to assist and guide and help those that we are supposed to do financial planning for?

Louis van der Merwe
I think if you look at coaching and therapy and a lot of the helping industries or professions, they start with yourself first, you know, get to know yourself is the saying that you can only go as deep as what the coach has gone themselves. How did your journey start out with with coaching because it’s something that’s popped up a few times? It’s, you know, a very big theme of these podcasts as well as like financial planners listening to this where do you start gaining coaching skills with a without breaking the bank? Because there’s a lot of courses that can be really expensive. And we actually start seeing a change in how your clients respond to it. Show they you’ve

Renate Jute
got me because I again, I’ve been doing this for so long. I’ve been just on this continuous journey. I mean, my first degree was psychology. And then I realize Hold on, I don’t know, you know, and not all my majors were abnormal behavior. and criminology because I wanted to do a PhD in, in criminal behavior. And I thought, sure, okay, hold on, this is a bit dark. Let’s move more into the light.

Louis van der Merwe
Renata, did you realize that after you finished? Was that at the beginning?

Renate Jute
No, no. I enjoyed it. And I was like, Whoa, this is very interesting. And then I went into trusts after that. And I realized this a lot of criminal behavior or No, No, I’m joking. I think, for me, it’s always been like just an organic move, because I’m so interested in human behavior. But I’m also interested. I’m always interested in why why do people do what they do? Why do we do what we do? How we do it? How does everything work? So my brother’s very mechanically minded, he takes every single part because he wants to know how everything works. I want to know, how does the mind work? How does the human work? And so it’s so interesting when when the two of us are together, because he will tell you how the vacuum cleaner works. And I want to know, How does his head work to want to know how that works? So I think for me, the coaching has been like, almost like a natural add on. And it’s been, yeah, it’s been this self discovery of how do we do better? How do we just do better? How do we leave it better than we found it? So we to start? Sure, I think, probably the first step would be for any person to first go through coaching themselves, because how can you just go and possibly think of studying something, if you’ve not even experienced it? The thing is to find someone that you resonate with, and someone that you can find true value with. Because you also want to know that you’re dealing with a properly accredited person, and not just some Sunni that previously sold homes, and she’s now a coach, because you’re she’s lived a life, you know, because, unfortunately, it’s not as regulated. Yes, you do get the commencer members, and you get the ICR, which is the international coaching registry. And we are currently working on how do we we now currently busy looking at how will we regulate financial coaching? because there’ll be people out there calling themselves financial coaches, you won’t believe it. But they haven’t the first clue about what is financial planning or coaching. So we are looking at how will we regulate this industry now. But, and that’s quite an interesting thing that we’ve gone on now. But I would highly recommend that people start this journey of self discovery. And a way to do that would be if coaching is not within your financial reach at the moment. Start with listening to podcasts, start listening. I mean, if you don’t know you would listen to obviously to this type of podcast. But then also if you want to start maybe just with various coaching type things, find something that you resonate with, read books, listen to audiobooks, if you don’t want to physically read, you can read a book, you can listen to a book, you can listen to a podcast, you can watch YouTube, if you prefer videos, and then start from there and just start building out start doing a bit of research. I think that would be you know, that’s putting your toe in the water you know, if you financially not in a position to just start throwing money at it these ways. In one thing I’ve believed, you know, I was this is I work I can what is it that I want to do? How much it’s gonna cost me Okay, now what do I need to do to make that money? That’s how I’ve always I want to study that thing. Okay, how much it’s gonna cost me Oh, okay, wait, I need that money. Somehow the money just, it’s funny when you put a number to something you make that money I don’t know if you’ve experienced it. But that’s just how it works. It’s energy. Money is energy you’re attracted. I want to expand

Louis van der Merwe
a bit on that topic around money is energy and kind of just your mindset around and I remember reading Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and the thought of not our can never afford that. But the thought of what acid do I need to acquire that can generate this money so that I can buy it? And oftentimes, I think clients approach it the other way around. They say, Well, when I buy this, I’m going to be able to generate more money in the future. From a psychological perspective, which one comes first? In a do you generate the asset first to buy that thing? Or do you do it the other way around investing and I would love to hear your, your thoughts just on on that.

Renate Jute
I’m a big proponent of reverse engineering. The If This Then That principle, because for me, that’s just so simple. I look at I love like, completely complex. So I always say to you, it is it must break my brain. So for me, I go and look at okay, how complex is this thing? And then, okay, so if that’s the end goal, Let’s reverse engineer. How, how do we get the what? What is it going to take? In the ideal world where there are no blocks? What would I have to do to get there? Or break it up into smaller components? And if time wasn’t a factor, if money wasn’t a factor, what would it take to get there? And then you can reverse it. And see, okay, so if I want to buy a car, for instance, what does that look like? What would I have to do to get there if I want to buy a house, because I can guarantee you five years ago, when you didn’t have a car and you want to buy a car, it looked like you would never be able to do it? Before you bought your first house five years before you bought your first house? When you thought about it, it was like, no, never in my life, how will I ever do it? And yet, they you are sitting in your house before you had your first kid. So never, I can never afford it yet, after you have your first kid, I suppose, continuously using, I’m not going to afford this, but it happens. So if you just go and think about the things you need to do, somehow it happens. But if you don’t break it down into something of a reality, if you don’t make it real things, if you don’t make it real steps, why would it happen? Then it’s just pie in the sky. So whatever it is that you really want, because you see the thing is also, if you say, Okay, this is something I really want, once you start breaking it down, and you go and look at the steps. You also then decide, is this something I really want? Or is this just something that I should be wanting, because again, it’s societal norm, it is expected of me because of whatever. How many kids land up in university, because it is expected of them and go and study something that they don’t want to study, then they spend two, three years studying that degree because the parents forced them to do it, just so that they can drop out, and then go and study something else. So you’ve wasted two, three years of Varsity fees when the kitchen of study that I’m not saying the kid shouldn’t go to varsity. But I’m saying do proper planning. So the same thing with a car, the same thing with a house? The same thing with whatever it is this financial thing you want. Go and break down? Why is it that I want this thing? And the yes, if I have this, then it can do that. Can it really? If I buy this property? It’s going to be an investment property. Whoa, and I’m going to make so much money off this investment property. Oh, really? Okay. What if you read other than people trying to sell you investment properties? What have you read to understand the reality of owning townhouses? What have you read on the reality of maintaining properties, having tenants that don’t pay you that actually that you can’t get out of properties? Have you read The Good, the Bad and the Ugly? To actually understand, I’m not talking about Joe property that owns 50 properties and doesn’t abide by the law, and doesn’t pay he stacks. I’m talking about the real story, the real deal. So because we often also lend out our ears, we listen, only you know, is that confirmation bias. We will only listen to get what we want. We want to move then ask 10 people, and nine people will tell us don’t do it. But the 10th guy confirms our bias, and we’ll go with that guy. And when it bites us on the ankle, we’ll go here, but no one told us and all nine people will stand there going, What are you talking about? We all told you guys, yeah, but that guy said I should do it. Second for about motion buyers. So do your research and reverse engineer. And I don’t know for me, that’s always worked. And just maybe I’m just too stubborn. Once I decide that something’s gonna work. The only person that’s going to not make it work is me, when I decide to not make it work.

Louis van der Merwe
I think it’s so brilliant Are you tied that back to financial planning and our limiting beliefs and saying, what changes for you once you have this? Most of the time we rush into saying, Oh, this is what I want. And this is what I think I’m supposed to have. And you just carry on and live life on autopilot. And so what you’re saying is actually spend time digging into understanding what’s behind that. Be it through your coach, be it through therapy and doing that work. And then you will be able to do that with your clients. And so we’ve seen that in our business once we start challenging clients on you know what changes once you achieve this, they start thinking not with the intention of making them make a decision, but for them to just go another level, you know, that extra layer of onion as they’re like saying peel that away. Beyond that away, Renate, you’re busy with so many things, what does the future look like for for your career and then also for this profession that we find ourselves in

Renate Jute
our region start with a profession, I think that’s a lot more interesting. I think for the profession, there’s a definite move towards bringing in the sad ecology more, there’s a very clear move away from planting products. And a very clear move towards bringing in the psychology, bringing in the nurturing, and bringing in the doing the right thing. So in other words, financial planning, not financial product selling, if that makes any sense, if that’s the clear distinction that I want to bring in, there is a definite move towards this. I think the disconnect will be between the people higher up that goes, Yes, but this is a business. And I want to see the bottom line versus the newer guys coming in at the bottom going, Yes, but I want to do the right thing. And I need to come in with a caring heart versus a clanking pocket. So I think that’s going to be where we will need to maybe bridge the disconnect for me. Sure, I don’t know, I can say that I have made or I’m trying to still convince myself, I keep saying this every year and then by March, then the disconnect is there. But I have committed to not study next year. We’ll see by March riverbed one has lost it. I think I want to take a year off studying. But I’m yeah, I’m quite excited about the value of uh, you know, I feel like I’m in a place in my life where I’ve accumulated this knowledge, this passion, this? How do we make this industry better? And I love this industry. I really love this industry. Because there’s so much we can do, there’s so much we can do better. So it’s just, you’re making a great, I think that’s like, how much how can we add more? How can we add more value? How can we serve? I suppose that’s the word, how can we serve better? So I suppose that’s where my journey is going. So that’s what I’m seeing. For me, I suppose.

Louis van der Merwe
Not that clanking pockets versus a caring heart is such a nice visualization. And I’m just wondering, are those two mutually exclusive? Is there a way where hope now you can have both?

Renate Jute
I believe there is. I believe they is. It’s just the that one that like you say, it’s it’s finding a way to have it as not mutually exclusive. And I think sometimes it becomes almost a mutually exclusive. And maybe we should go back to the type of rewards that we offer in the industry. You know, it’s often I don’t know, because I’m not really the the the rewarded type person when it comes to that. But with those kinds of rewards isn’t always like the top salesman type message out there is not who’s had the clients the longest, or who has been able to serve the clients the best it has been who’s made the most money. Maybe I’m seeing that wrong, but I’m hoping that one could have rather a combination.

Louis van der Merwe
And probably a very good definition of what best advice is best advice does not equal highest sales figures. Like you’re saying, having a redefinition of that difference you can make in someone’s life. We recently had one Sydney divine. And he said this is one of the most wonderful industries it’s use words where this is the most lucrative industry in the world. And the money’s not bad either.

Renate Jute
Ah, how stunning is that? And that tells you exactly where his heart is.

Louis van der Merwe
Renate, I want to thank you so much for being here today. Your passion shines through in everything you do, be it your commitment to studying and the difference you make in people’s lives. I look forward to our weekly call and a mandate to chat through the questions and being a study partner. If people can reach out to you and need some advice, maybe some complex financial planning was that panic, what’s the best way to reach you?

Renate Jute
are welcome to email me at Renate on noble group.co dot z I am sure you can also just share that with him and we are all via my website, noble, noble prosperity, dot com.

Louis van der Merwe
Brilliant. We’ll add the links to the show notes. And I want to wish you all the best with the studies and with your business and with the coaching and the long list of things that you’re keeping yourself busy with. Thank you so much.

Renate Jute
Thank you. Thank you very much