#42 Ben Charlton – Transcript

Louis van der Merwe
Welcome to another episode of Financial Planners, South Africa. Today I have with me in the studio Ben Charlton. Ben is a certified financial planner, and loves lifestyle financial planning, we are going to have a wonderful chat about all things technology niches, what people should be doing. Ben, thank you so much for joining me.

Ben Charlton
Oh, thank you for having me. It’s an absolute pleasure to be here.

Louis van der Merwe
Before our call, we were just discussing discussing setups and getting ready for a virtual first world. And when you mentioned that most of your client interactions are now kind of starting with virtual and stays virtual. Was that always the default? For you?

Ben Charlton
Sure. That’s a interesting question. I think, I mean, I always love face to face, you know, it’s always great meeting or somebody shaking their hand. But I just think as as progressed, and things, there was a lot of people that are working sort of maybe after hours, different, different times. And so it kind of evolved a little bit into a bit of a necessity, so I can help a lot of more people, you know, not in a nine to five environment, for example, you know, and I think it’s just kind of grown from there. And now it’s just amazing that you can be sitting in Durban and helping someone in Joburg or, you know, I could go to Thailand for a weekend still be helping somebody and enjoy Vegas, or whatever the case is.

Louis van der Merwe
Yeah, your location independence makes a massive difference. We have people dialing in from all over the world, and you don’t even know it been, you have a very interesting niche, and you deal predominantly with doctors. And now you have a special story around this can can you share that with us?

Ben Charlton
Yeah, that’s, that’s a very interesting one. So it was kind of during the COVID. As COVID said, in, in, I was trying to think there must be a way of, of doing financial planning and doing things differently. And a lot of people talked about having a niche, you know, all those marketing experts say have have a niche market. So I didn’t think for a while it’s like, well, what niche? Can I can I do? What would what would I be good at the obvious one would would have been doctors, because my dad’s a doctor, my sister’s a doctor, my wife’s a doctor, but actually ran in the opposite direction, because I know how much doctors are harassed by like, financial advisors, and people trying to sell them things. And so they hate financial advisors, you know? So if I go to a bride with my wife, and people ask, what do you do, you know, I just say I’m a car salesman or something, because it’s, it’s worse than getting worse, it’s like, I’m a financial advisor. But I kind of changed a little bit over time, because I had such unique insights into what happens in the life of a doctor, you know, and, and those are so so crucial things that you can, you can actually then help people, you know, to forward plan, you know, not being reactive planning, because you know, what’s coming up in their lives, you know, I’ve had I had one client, or they’re coming to the end of internship, and I said, you know, you’re going to be 27, next year, going into community service, you might not actually get a post, then what happens? You know, sorry, they’re finishing come serve, and they’re going to get a medical officer post. And I said, you know, up until now, it was three years of working is all been guaranteed. So what happens if you don’t get a post? And this they’ll ask, they’re like, Wow, I never even thought about that, you know, we were able to plan, you know, for two or three months worth of expenses as a backup, in case you didn’t have a job in January, renews, you’d probably get something along the way. But what if, you know, first of Jan, she was unemployed. So I think that’s the amazing things you can do. And clients love when you Nishan to inter market because, you know, their progression, you know, their love, sometimes even a little bit better than in them.

Louis van der Merwe
That makes complete sense. I mean, for someone to reach out to a specialist dealing with, you know, the person that might be going through the same life stage might be similar challenges. Are there things that you see, are very unique, specifically dealing with with doctors that you probably won’t see in other occupations, or

Ben Charlton
I mean, I think that, like the common thing that would be similar to other occupations is obviously like the GPF. And that’s also, you know, as its own little thing to understand. And so it could also be completely foreign to other other people. So I think that’s, you know, understanding that is actually quite important. But I’ve also noticed, especially doctors, when they’re getting older, they because I think being a doctors is a bit of a calling. You know, it’s it’s who they’re who they are. So they don’t actually, if you don’t if so if you talk to him about retirement, it’s almost like a foreign concept. There was a there was an end in Devon the other day, I think he retired a month or two ago and he was 92. You know, So, you know, like, they don’t they don’t think about retirement. And so, so what are we doing the, but maybe you’re going to help them to step down or to think about things in different ways. And so I think those things are maybe slightly different ways in other in other occupations. It’s very, you know, at 65, the company beats you out. But also, I think there’s, I think, with a lot of my female clients, they it’s very interesting, because they obviously earn a lot of their own well, especially in government. And if you don’t marry a doctor, it’s actually a very big shift in earning between husband and wife. And then how do you navigate that as a couple? I mean, it’s so those have been some amazing conversations that I’ve had with clients. Because I’ve been through it myself, you know, my wife, Angela. And I’ve gone through all the struggles as a guy thinking like, how do you? How do you navigate this? How do you lead a family and these kinds of things. And so I’ve been able to then bring that as well into into my experience with clients, because I’ve lived it. And I think that’s also quite unique in a in a doctor world, if that makes sense.

Louis van der Merwe
While Ben, there’s so much I want to unpack, can we start with the overconfidence, bias, and it’s something that we see, when we do thinking specifically with engineers, and someone that’s very successful in their field, they tend to say, well, if I’m successful in my occupation, I’ll be successful in investing, I’ll be successful in you know, financial planning, and in other areas of my life. How do you tackle that?

Ben Charlton
I think a lot changes with age and a bit of experience I find with a lot of the younger doctors they know everything. Before they even started work, they just they get because they get approached I think by a lot of the other banks and other people in the last year varsity and giving them iPads, giving them this like, treat them like royalty. So they almost like walking on working on a when they come out of Varsity. Some of them have bought a car before they’ve even got their first paycheck. You know, that’s how much they’re given. So they’ve got this Aki say, massive overconfidence. But as I get older, I think, you know, debit orders, start hitting, and laugh sort of happens. And I know numerous stories of people who are driving these, you know, German cars, and maybe got a puncher or two, and it just sits in there, at the doctor’s quarters for till the end of the month, until they got some money to be able to replace the tire, for example, you know, so I think those things kind of humble you a little bit. And as they get older, they sort of realize what, what, you know, what’s happening, they realize that the money isn’t never ending as they thought it would be. So I think it has become quite a humbling experience. But at the start, it does take a bit of time, I can

Louis van der Merwe
see how it’s valuable seeing things that can go wrong, and almost using that as analogies and stories to say, Hey, this is this might not be you, but is something to think about. What do you see shift when someone actually sees Okay, hold on, Ben has, he has some experience in this? Like, what changes in the client? And in that relationship view?

Ben Charlton
I think it’s, I think it’s massive. You know, there’s some people who think he just kind of maybe I wouldn’t have given them a lecture, but you know, they’re sort of like, okay, you know, because they want to almost like live the life that they’ve always thought about, you know, that Instagram laugh. But when someone one, like get it. I mean, like, everything sort of changes. And it’s such an amazing thing. Because when I’ve had clients dealing with with her, and then they should got married now she brings a husband in and other sort of like, now we got to do finances together, how do we do finances together? What should we be doing? And then you having great discussions with them? Not that, that I’m the hero, but I think I feel like tomorrow to be like a guide and throw the question straight back at them and say, Well, how do you think money should be done? You know, how do you want to do it as your family? And they started to pack it? I mean, the conversations that you start having with people now around money, they don’t they’re so scared to talk about it, it’s more open. And then when things pop up, the first thing they do they get a WhatsApp, Hey, Ben, this has happened or what should I be doing here? And say, hey, let’s let’s discuss it. Let’s go through this. You know, say, Hey, Ben, if I do this, how will this info how will this influence our plan to, you know, go overseas next year? Or how will this influence as paying for a deposit for our house? You know, we’re having such amazing conversations, enriching conversations. So yeah, the shift is just it’s not about a product or a way to invest or what you invest in, it’s, it’s just about them in their life, you know, and that’s, that’s just amazing.

Louis van der Merwe
Sounds like the conversation channels between you and your clients are wide open, and that they feel comfortable reaching out to you. Tell us a little bit more about how your clients or prospective clients can Medicare with you.

Ben Charlton
So yeah, I think doctors say that they do work at weird hours. So I think you’ve kind of be available and, you know, they’re not going to sit down and read an email, you know, if you come up and put amazing plan together, it could be perfect. But they’re not going to sit and read it, don’t have the time to do it. And so I think just being open, I mean, obviously WhatsApp is very easy. voice notes. I mean, so many plans have been have been a plank accomplished over voice notes, I mean, and discussions and, and things like that. So that and then obviously, meetings and one to one, or, you know, virtually sitting down and actually booking time. And even in that, and having most of those kinds of meetings would be say, afternoon to evening time, because that’s when they’re, when they’re free, that’s when they’re available, they can’t just suddenly stop at 10 o’clock in the morning. Like, oh, I’ve got a patient on the table, oh, hang on a minute, I need to go speak about to my financial advisor, you know, like, they’ve got stuff that they’re doing, literally life saving work. And so I think being available in the evening for those kinds of things also makes it makes a big difference, because they need to sit down and talk about their finances, they’re so busy, they don’t actually have time to do anything. So, and you’re also kind of forcing them in a way to sit down and think about it. Which is, which is great for them as well, because otherwise, it’ll be like I’ll do it next week. And then next week becomes next year, which becomes sort of never, you know, this year with my wife, even with with things like hpcsa, you got to register for you got to register for this, you got to register for this course, and just kind of keep track of everything. It’s so difficult. I mean, the last thing you want to do is sit down with somebody to talk about your finances. So being available in so many different ways, I think makes a massive difference, you know, for them to get hold of you.

Louis van der Merwe
So have you had to change the structure of your work day to cater for this because you’re mentioning kind of meetings in the hours. And that makes me think of, you know, almost the old days we would meet someone at their house. And you know, you’d sit down and discuss what policy would would suit for them. The industry in large, I think has leaned away from that. But you’re leaning in, you’re saying hey, let’s make it easier for for the client. What is your normal workday when meeting with clients look alike.

Ben Charlton
So I mean, I’ve tried to structure my day slightly later, if that makes sense. So I’ve got morning time to be at home. So I can can make the coffee in the morning, get the wife have to work and she’s happy. And I’ll start my day a little bit later. So maybe around 10. And during my admin, there might be one or two meetings that I’m attending might be industry things or and things like that. But client meetings are predominantly then in the evening. So it’s fine, because I’ve been shifted my day to look like that. And so for me, even if I’m meeting at eight, nine o’clock at night, it’s like four o’clock in the afternoon for me if that makes sense. So, yeah, so it’s it’s a little bit of a shift. But you know, I was never a morning person to begin with. It works.

Louis van der Merwe
You have the control. You can you can move this you can move timezones, you can you can work for, from from a different location. Exactly, exactly. You spoke about the money, conversations are getting easier, you know, often think that money is a very difficult thing to talk about, it’s almost easier to talk about sex than what it is to talk about money. And it’s, it’s still, for a lot of people, it’s taboo. But it sounds like your client base is opening up to these money conversations. Tell us a little bit more about, you know how that’s different from maybe some of the older clients or older generations that you’re serving. I think

Ben Charlton
I think this new generation, or the younger generation, they, they’re eager to learn, and they want to understand, you know, they, it’s not that they they’re lazy, I think you know that they’re eager, but they’re just unaware. And if, you know, we learned maybe a lot of things, maybe from our parents, or maybe we saw things from our grandparents, but I think a lot of the people now and a lot of the demographics that we’re dealing with, you know, maybe they’re the first educated in their family. So who they looked up to, you know, to, to learn about these financial decisions or how things work. And so I think that’s exciting, because then you can help people, you know, from the beginning. They’re asking you, even if it’s from simple things to like, what is a balloon payment? How does that work? Is it better to do structured this way or structured that way? You know, and talking through those things, and that will help as well then to build up to the bigger things, saying, you know, what is your future retirement look like? What are you trying to do with your life? Where do you want to go? What holidays are we going on? And I think also just being genuinely interested in people, makes it makes them massive difference, because you know, there’s it’s all very well to say, Yeah, I want to go on holiday next year. And that’s your goal. You know, so Okay, well, where are you going? Like, oh, actually, I’ve really always wanted to go to Zanzibar. So like, okay, cool. So how much do you think that’s going to cost? You know, how long you’re gonna go for one of the floods going to be what you’re gonna do when you get there. And so they start, they start then thinking about it, they start believing it, they start seeing it. And then you can say, Cool, well, let’s start working towards a plan, you know, they start working so that in two years time, you can be going to Zanzibar. And so I think there’s a combination of all of those things, just people are genuinely interested. And they want to do the right thing. They want to say like a fire movement, but you know, that kind of, I guess those things play a part. But I think it’s just a lot more people are just a lot more aware, that makes sense.

Louis van der Merwe
You speaking their language, and you’re getting them excited about the things that they want to achieve. Someone said recently that when you’re working with someone planning their retirement goals, that you should be asking what is a Tuesday morning look like? You know, you want a very clear picture. And it sounds like you incorporate something similar in your goal conversations, for financial planners that want to get in this type of goal conversation. What advice would you give them to maybe make it run a little bit smoother?

Ben Charlton
So it’s a good, good question. Because it’s something that we, we think about, and we and we’ll refine and we try go well, probably processes, you know, so often. So it’s a very, it’s a very difficult question to, to answer. But I think I think it’s trying to get to the core of, of what they’re really looking for, if that makes sense. And it’s not, that’s not always an easy thing to do. But you got to try and take off all those layers of onions and get to the real point of what’s what’s at the heart of it. Because I think a lot of luck with the doctors, they, a lot of them that I deal with, they say that they want to open their own sort of maybe clinic or some say, their own hospital, they want to give back to the community, because that’s a very core of what what they’re doing. And I’m at the face of it. I’m like, that’s impossible. You know, okay, that’s, that’s a dream. Okay, what next? You know, what color do you want? You know, like, that can be very easy to look at that. But what is what is the chord? What are they trying to say there? You know, and as you asked him, but deeper questions, it’s like, they actually want to have an impact in what they’re doing. They want communities to be affected, you know, to have health care, access to health care, they want to see community being uplifted. And I think that’s, you know, you got to ask a lot of questions to get to that, which is, it takes a bit of practice. But yeah, I think when you when you unlock that, and at the heart of what they want, that opens up so much for you to talk to them about. And for them to share.

Louis van der Merwe
An image of peeling the layers of the onion is is wonderful bolt, Bacharach talks about a question that he often asked is what’s important about money to you? And then someone would answer and then delving a little bit deeper in what why is that important? And, you know, why is that? And so kind of not not stopping and going deeper and deeper and deeper? When do you know when it’s time to stop?

Ben Charlton
Yeah, that’s, uh, I’m laughing because I was just thinking to myself the other day, it’s like, she’s, I don’t think I quite get deep enough. I’m still I guess, stuck on layer three, I feel like I’ve got two more layers to go to. And so, you know, as call Richard say, you know, he, he tries in every meeting to make somebody cry, then he knows that’s the end point. You know, like, that’s, he’s got to the point.

But I think, you know, you can sort of, maybe sometimes even in a meeting a meeting, you don’t really understand, you think you’ve got to the, to that point, but I think when you sit back and you sort of reflect on the meeting, you can actually then pick it up as well. So I don’t think you always have to get right to the bottom of the core. If you peel back one or two layers, you can sort of understand a bit more, you know, of that person. But I mean, yeah, I think like I said, as an example, you know, someone can come in and say, I just want to be financially secure, you know, and sort of cycle or what does that mean? To you? And so I want to have enough money so that we can do the things we want. Like, okay, well, what do you want to win the money to be able to do? And he keep asking, asking that actually, that the you know, she the wife wanted to just be able to have time with the kids. So only maybe work mornings and have the afternoons off, like what they’re really looking for. And that’s what the heart of what they want. And and so I think clients don’t know how to phrase things. Or maybe they try and say things into like a financial planning way. You know, I want to be financially secure. And that could mean anything to a whole lot of different people. And so I think we’ve got to just try and unpack it a little bit so that you understand what they are trying to relate to you. And I think then then you’ve been you know what, what it is you’ve got to that final layer.

Louis van der Merwe
It’s this almost hyper personal question in stead of just, this is something that I expect you to, this is the answer you would expect me to give and kind of a copy, copy and paste. This planning does get very personal. And it sounds like you deal with a lot of stuff that traditional financial planners would not do. How do you create the boundaries around your relationship where someone might just be passing on more stuff than what you need to take on or what you’re comfortable taking on?

Ben Charlton
I think it’s very important having in structure and a plan in your process. So you know that, you know, this meeting, we’re covering this in this meeting, recovering that in meeting three, we’re doing this. And so, in a way, setting boundaries there. So that you can you can keep the meeting also then on point. And, also, I mean, you’re asking the questions as well, you know, they’re getting direction from you. And I think you can never ask too many wrong questions, because a client will never share anything that they don’t want you to know. You know. And so if you start going and also in the wrong direction, then they’re not gonna lead you in the wrong direction, and they’re gonna lead you. And so I think then, as well, it’s important for you to know, whether you’re trying to get to, and so having so also not just asking questions, for the sake of asking questions, you know, I think there’s gotta be, there’s gotta be purpose and a point behind behind the questions. You know, am I learning something about that person? Is it’s gonna help to get them there. We’re not just asking us, or how was the rugby on the weekend? Who the support, you know, like, that’s, that’s all kind of surface level sort of questions. But if you know why you’re asking where the conversations going, what we’re going to achieve out of it, and it’s all part of your process, and it’s leading to some sort of point, I think, then you can be in a very safe space along their journey.

Louis van der Merwe
How much of that comes through experience versus training? Because I’m thinking that your discussions in your your first couple of live meetings probably didn’t look the same?

Ben Charlton
Yeah, I think a lot of it does a bit of trial and error, I think mostly, you said, I was just saying, Oh, I’m gonna try this today. And, you know, sometimes clients don’t come back like, Oops, okay, that didn’t work. And then you just tried to tweak it, and you try, something’s up. But I think it’s also you develop a relationship with the clients. And you can ask them for genuine feedback, or say, Hey, how did you? How did you find this? Or some of the clients, you have a good relationship with? You say, I’m going to do this with you, I want you to let me know, how does it feel? What was it like? What did you feel at the end of it, and you just getting this constant feedback, and tweaking things, because those are your and that’s another great thing about working with a niche is because if that’s your ideal client, then they’re gonna tell you how you feel how they feel, then they’ll be able to relate how other people in the in the field are gonna feel as well, you know, or similar kind of people. If that makes sense.

Louis van der Merwe
He also becomes very valuable feedback to you. In the coaching world, they often talk about, you know, asking someone, what do they expect to get out of this conversation? And then, at the end of their conversation, look back to say, well, the client misses line, you said you expected this? Is that what you got? An oftentimes the answer is no, I got so much more in this kind of book ins to the conversation.

Ben Charlton
Yeah, yeah. I think you make a good point. I mean, it’s so important to understand what is the client want? And what are they looking for? And that’s a question that we ask a, because we might not be the right fit for what they’re looking for. Or envy, we got to also know what they’re trying to achieve. And if you’re going in a different direction to where they’re going, then you’re gonna get into problems, probably sooner rather than later.

Louis van der Merwe
What are the red flags been that you look for in clients to say, Hey, this is someone that I’m going to run in the other direction? Is there anything that comes to mind? Yeah. Other than

Ben Charlton
like, I think we we’ve got a process that we’ve that we’ve set up and that we take every single client through. And so if a client doesn’t want to run through that process, then we won’t take them on. Because we know that it’s just going to, we’re not going to get anywhere because they’re not willing to go through the work. You know, they’re not willing to go through the journey. We’re just going to clash heads. And so it’s not worth it. So if they’re not willing to go through our process, then then we’re not going to take them

Louis van der Merwe
to being when you say we we had there couldn’t have held on as one of the early episodes at client K and you recently joined the team. So can you tell us a little bit without peeking under the hood? What that process looked like joining them and how well or how difficult it went

Ben Charlton
in joining them or in the process is that we take a client through and

Louis van der Merwe
joining them specifically that

Ben Charlton
it does it does very interesting one because I accepted my job offer before I even met Derek.

I remember signing the contract and then we happen to be in Krieger at the same time. So I met him in Kruger. And it is very different to I’d ever seen because I’ve only met in a virtually so I’ve only seen the top half of him. I was like, Oh, he’s got legs. So it was such a strange. But yeah, it was great. I think we’ve, you know, I think we’d seen each other’s you know, things online, our posts, are, we were kind of speaking in a very similar language. And then we chatted a few times, and even actually spoken to me a few months prior, and it’s like, hey, you know, have you thought about maybe joining us, and I kind of just laughed at her, you know, like, and carried on the conversation. And then things came to, to be and yeah, it looked like it’d be a great move. And so I just did some, some due diligence and check them out. But yeah, and as you know, well, I live in Durban. And they’re based in PE. So like, again, that’s also like, how does this work? Yeah, so I work I work virtually, from Devon, and then PE. So the first time I flew up and met the team, I was like, hey, hey, everybody, this is this is me. But it’s been great. I think, learning how to go through the process, to see how they’re doing things. And then also adding in a little bit of my my flair to, to how things have been going and make, you know, not that there’s anything wrong, but just saying, hey, how could we improve this? How can we make look at this, let’s maybe bring a bit of technology to these things, let’s let’s look at this, let’s look at that. And I think that’s been a it’s an amazing combination, when you have sort of an old established guy, as well as you know, some young, young blood theory sort of get in there. And I think you can actually do so much because you’ve got the experience and the energy to balance everything out.

Louis van der Merwe
Ben, what did the conversation look like with your clients? And how did that guy?

Ben Charlton
So I just, it’s interesting, because my, my relationship with my clients, it’s always been, it’s been pain. And Louis, for example, you know, they, you know, Louis is finding pain, it’s never been been of XYZ, financial planners. And so I just said, hey, hey, Louis, I’m just going to be doing what I’m doing, but I’m going to be doing it somewhere else, but I’m gonna have a team around me, we’re going to be able to do more for you. Because their client care we have to meet we have to advisors in every meeting. So that that’s for you as a client. How amazing is that? If something happens to me, if I get hit by a bus, then there’s somebody else who’s been in the meeting, I don’t have to always die. But what if I was overseas? Oh, I was on holiday, or they can’t get ahold of me for whatever reason. But there’s always the now there’s a team around. Not only that, but now when you’re coming up with something, maybe it’s a bit more tricky. Or there’s now two or three brains thinking about this, this problem or solution, as opposed to, to just me? And what if I was leading them in the wrong direction in the first place? Now you got somebody else? So I think from a client’s perspective, it’s amazing. You got so much more value to the client. But also, like I said, they were like, but you know, it’s the relationship is Mr. Client, and then it’s not, you know, x y Zed, financial planners. So for them, they’re like, well, as long as you keep doing the same stuff. What difference does it make? You know? So yeah, I think it’s been great. They’ve been meeting, we’ve been doing onboarding of them. And they’ve been meeting everybody getting to know everyone having great conversations, bringing in some of the stuff that food Turks experience and having even deeper conversations. I’m like, Oh, I didn’t know about that about them. You know, like, Oh, that’s interesting. And so again, it’s just having those conversations, again, can even bring up things, which is amazing. So yeah, it’s been a great experience.

Louis van der Merwe
I want to know a little bit more about how you deliver advice as a team. So you say that these two advisors in the meeting, who gets to do what and how do you agree on that? As advisors, we tend to want to give our own opinion. So you’re telling me on how are you balanced that and how you manage it?

Ben Charlton
It’s, we have a sort of a game of change on chat beforehand. I think I think the first thing well, we it’s not ever been like it’s not in the culture of time care. It’s not your client or my client, you know, it’s all cranky as clients, you know. I think we will be Have someone who would maybe be the like the lead advisor. And that’s because they had the primary relationship with that person and they can go to, but it’s never like, this is Ben’s client. This is Alex client. There’s never been that in any discussion. They’re all client case client. So I think that takes about that competition out of a completely. And so the lead advisor would would sort of lead the conversation. And I think, when it comes to do you think about advice, I think the thing is, but it’s very tricky. And because people often come to us for advice, and that’s probably the main reason why maybe someone will come and see a financial adviser. But I think the client actually knows the right thing to do. And so we got it when you throwing it back to the client, and we’re more like a guide. Now, we are not the hero that’s telling them go this way, you know, come in and save the day, I think we’re more of a guide. And when you, like I said earlier, you know, they said, What do we do? How do we do money as a family, and not telling them what to do? And say, well, first of all, you need to do this, this and this, and said, Well, how do you guys want to do it? How do you think it should work? And then you play off that and you’re asking those conversations, so you’re not then trying to fight for the best advice, because I think everybody’s situation is different. It’s all unique. And so the client’s in the best place to know what’s going to be best for them, we can maybe help them around the technical things. And we can discuss that as advisors offline together, saying, okay, but this loss is this and this that could be that, you know, the technical stuff on the back end. But yeah, when you enter the client, I think the clients in the best place to know, we just got to help them to, to know what to get to the point where they can see what’s the best way to take

Louis van der Merwe
been what, what training helped you develop this view, because you have a very different view about how you should be delivering advice and the engagement, is there anything that you know, crafted or pushed you in this direction, any resources that comes to mind,

Ben Charlton
I’ve been a mixed match of, of things. I think the one thing that had the most profound difference was that with birth, when COVID started, then there was Brian Foster, and he had their financial Katie, and I started that a year course. And that kind of opened my eyes to laughter, financial planning, and I think that’s what’s really kind of changed my view. And I was like, wow, there’s a different way I was wanting to do the right thing for the client. But I didn’t know how to do it, you know, what is the structure and I think that course really gave me an amazing foundation. So I’ve got to give credit to him to sort of opening opening my eyes. But then it’s also just been, I’ve also fostered a great relationship with, with Mark Syrah in in Cape Town. You know, we’ve we’ve had great conversations. And so we’ve, you know, we’ve talked about things, we’ve wrestled with things, you know, and those kinds of things. But then again, podcasts I think, is a great way. I mean, there’s so many, so many great ones, you know, Brendan Foster’s got a Brendan Fraser. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I really enjoy his stuff and got your call and Kitsis enjoy them, because calls things emotionally and keeps us very numb, numerical, and it’s like, I don’t get it. And they’re almost like, they’re totally different views. And that’s what makes it so great. Because they, they are different. So I think just listening to a lot of different views and things. Yeah, it’s hard sometimes, because there’s a lot of great ideas. And then how do you implement it, you know? And so sometimes you got to just kind of stick to something and work on something, it’s never going to be perfect, you’re always going to be changing it. But

Louis van der Merwe
seems like you’re molding this as you go on and saying, okay, you know, we need to bring in more resources, but at some point, you actually apply it and see, see if it works, does it resonate with your specific client, I would definitely echo that. The Human Side of money is a brilliant podcast. And so it’s good to us and call that the amount of knowledge out there and the amount of resources can be scary for younger financial planners starting out or even older financial planners, just thank you so much. You know, I need to get hold of technology, bringing in new clients, and learning more spending time with clients compliance, all of this, how do you prioritize that? And what phase are you in now? In terms of, you know, joining client care, what’s at the top of your priority list?

Ben Charlton
So that’s a good question. I think there’s there’s been a lot I think, all coming into client care a lot of my my party’s has been around sort of like a lot of this, I’d say awareness or more like the social media, a lot of the social media side, making a few little videos, explainer videos, you know, little daily animations, you know, those kinds of things. And just trying to I guess, A bit of marketing. In the in that side, I think a lot of my activities have been put pushed that direction, because we’re in a bit of a growth phase, you know, so we’ve got the process that that has been developed. And so now we need to get people to go, you know, go through that process, and still trying to tinker with the process as we go along and changing things. And so, I think that’s also again, the great thing about being in a team is that everyone can have different expertise and bringing different things. So I don’t have to focus on the compliance, I don’t have to focus on certain certain things. And I’ve got to just focus on my little area, and also seeing clients and working with our clients. And then, so yeah, I think team is, is amazing.

Louis van der Merwe
It could be very different from, you know, working as a solo financial planner, seeing your clients doing the administration, and then all of a sudden, you know, being shifted into into a team, is what you’re getting now, what you expected it to be in terms of working as a team,

Ben Charlton
I think it’s, it’s it’s kind of maybe gone past my expectations, you know, because it’s a Cisco. I’ve had a great experience. And it’s just been, like you said, it has been difficult. I think it also depends on the reason why you’re going into it. If you were kind of going to a team, do you think, Oh, it’s just gonna be easier. And that’s it, I think it also becomes harder, because you’re gonna you want to pick up your in, you know, you want to make sure you’re in the standing strong. If you’re going into it, if you’re going into it for for many reasons, or this and that you’re like, Oh, but I want to be seeing more clients, I want to try this. And that, you know, it’s going to be very difficult to be in a team, because there’s going to be other responsibilities that are that are unused, if that makes sense. But if, you know, if you’re caring about the client, what’s the right thing for the client? And I’m just thinking, how can I help to make the client experience the most amazing that anyone has, you know, through client care, I can change that they have a great client experience, you know? How can I help more people to experience this great, this great experience? How do I work on my marketing and those kinds of things? It’s a very different mind shift to, you know, when when to run around to find another client?

Louis van der Merwe
Sometimes, you know, it comes from the things that you put in.

Ben Charlton
Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, when you when you’re doing great work, you know, the referrals come, and that’s where, I’d say, 95% of the business comes from is, is referrals. And I think that that’s testament to the, to the work that we’re doing. But you always just want to try and meet more people and help more people.

Louis van der Merwe
Ben, what do you see as the future of financial planning? What is what is this thing that we’re doing now look like 10 or 20 years from now? How is it different from what we’re doing? Now?

Ben Charlton
I think there’s gonna be nothing at all to do with products, to be honest, and I think it’s all just gonna be conversations, almost like this and just chatting about life and in money. You know, because you can see investing, you know, Robo advice, and, and passive and all these things, you know, the, the costs are just coming down and down and down. I don’t, it’s easy for someone to go online, and to do an investment at a fraction of the price of doing it through through an advisor, I think the real value comes so in their conversation about what is that investment for? Why or why do we what are we aiming towards? What is this money? What is this money going to do for you? Or what do you want this money to do for you, you know, what does your life look like? And I’ve had a, I mean, just like, I was working with a client now and they’ve, they had a, really like a strict kind of upbringing, they’ve led to save money, they’ve worked hard. And so he’s always kind of just saved safety and just put everything together. And I said to him, I said, things are on track, you know, you need to, like live a little, maybe take your family on holiday. And he was like, really, you know, and he comes like, it’s like, Ben is the first time I’ve taken a holiday for I don’t know, how, how many years, and I felt free enough to do it. You know, that’s what real you know, financial planning is about, you know, discussing husband and wife together saying, we just got married or even before they got married, say, you know, okay, we’re gonna get married. This is what what should we be doing? What are what are our plans gonna be how we’re going to do money together? Those are those are a life changing conversations that you’re having with, with families. But another client now who wants to say, hey, things are going well, I’ve got a guy I’ve been seeing he’s kind of serious. Can we bring him into our financial planning meetings? I want to see how does this you know, line up? And that she’s almost like thinking like, hey, is this a geek? Is this gonna be a husband material? Let me see how he comes out of these meetings in a way you know, like, my financial

Louis van der Merwe
advisor has to Oh.

Ben Charlton
But I mean, it’s like, I mean, if this is she’s gone this track, and she knows where she’s going, this is what her life wants to look like, can he buy into that? Or does he want to spend everything or doesn’t care, but, you know, her dreams and the things, you know, these are important things to know, before you get married. But again, what great conversations that you’re having with clients. And I think that’s what the future of financial planning is. It’s not about the investment, per se. It’s around about life and how these money, how money affects your life, and what’s happening to you and your family.

Louis van der Merwe
Ben, how would you prepare for meeting like that, you know, a client saying, I want you to meet my potential fiance, to vet him, but also to make sure that we are on the same track. Do you prepare for that? And if so, like, what does it look like?

Ben Charlton
Yeah, well, it’s something I got to think about, because it’s, it’s the first time Oh, actually, I mean, Allah because someone else will put in their husband as well. So it’s, it’s, it’s becoming more common, I think. And it is interesting, because there’s so much that they gotta understand as well, what why are they bringing them in? You know, what are they? What do they want to see? So I think you got to get to know that first. Maybe what is the I think also, sometimes it’s like you said, it’s so difficult to talk about money. But sometimes having that, that third person, you know, the client shout at each other when someone else is there, they’re like, Okay. And so, for example, like with with a couple that, that that I had before, I mean, he actually opened up and said in the meeting is like, being how can I provide for my family, she wants me to provide, she said, she wants me to be with the provider. But how can I do that when I’m earning less than her, you know? And then I looked at her and I said, Okay, well, what does it mean to you to be a provider? And he said, Well, I want him to lead the family. I want him to make decisions. I want him to do this, you know, X Y, Zed. And I said, is that it? And she’s like, yes. I said, Okay, sure. Yeah. And I looked back at him. And I said, was it anyway, they were she mentioned, how much you need to earn? And she’s like, No, actually, that’s I said, so being provided to her is not about how much you earn. These are what she means a provider, you’ve interpreted it, as this is what it is to be a provider. And for him, it was just a lightbulb moment, you know, that this changed their whole outlook on money, and how they’re making decisions and talking about it. So that I couldn’t really prepare for, but I had to understand what what it was that was the root issue. Again, you know, I think it’s peeling back that onion.

Louis van der Merwe
Chopping that that sounds so therapeutic. I mean, I can I can imagine what that means for them.

Ben Charlton
Yeah, I mean, that’s, it’s, it was like a lightbulb moment, you know, something like a it’s like, wow. And think about it, you know, with most relationships, money becomes is the biggest problem in any relationship. So if you’re able to now talk about your money, talk about how your money is being utilized or spent, what the goals are, whether you’re working towards as a family, when you’re on the same page. I mean, how, how magical is that?

Louis van der Merwe
That makes her future planning so much easier? Yeah. And, you

Ben Charlton
know, I’m sure he still gets upset every now and again, if she goes and buys some extra does something to her here, or this and that. But you know, they’re they’re working on it. And now, and now he can say, Oh, is that going to affect our trip to to Zanzibar? Whoa, look at this. And so now they are thinking about their plan together as a couple, as opposed to just one person saying, Go, I’m going to do this, you know, so they can you can joke about it, you know, sort of tongue in cheek as well in the relationship.

Louis van der Merwe
Given all of this, I’m curious, what does your review meetings look like?

Ben Charlton
That’s, that’s why I say financial planning is such an interesting thing. Because I know you, technically, you know, meant to be having it, like once a year kind of thing. But when you’ve got these relationships with your clients, you’re almost having a review meeting, you know, all the time because you’re just checking in or when, when, when things happen. That is the first phone call that I get, you know, people are moving jobs, hey, been moving jobs. I’ve had plans for me, Hey, Ben, I’ve started now as a permanent member, they’ve asked me, Do I get my 13th Check paid out monthly? Or should I have it as a lump sum at the end of the, you know, my birthday month? Should I be taxed on it monthly or as a lump sum at the end of the year? I’m just like, What do you want? Like, let’s let’s look at it and sit down. But the amazing thing is that they become the first call when something happens and they laugh. And so it’s not a surprise when a review meeting or not like oh, did you move you know, I’m not caught off guard in a way because we’ve had a we’ve had a conversation Throughout the year, and I think that’s, you know, it’s hard to do it as from a compliance perspective, I think if you just keep a copy of maybe the WhatsApps, and the voice notes and things, but like, that’s technically reviews really, throughout the year, just checking in meeting with them, they’re discussing different things. And that, I still think it’s important at least once a year to sit down and just really look at maybe the numbers and seeing the direction that you’re going. So I do think it’s important to have a proper, still, you know, have a proper meeting. But I mean, a lot of you having like many reviews on the on the journey, if that makes sense,

Louis van der Merwe
tailored more to what’s appropriate for that client at that point, instead of just saying, this is what you’ll find has performed, and, therefore you’re, you’re on track.

Ben Charlton
Yeah, and I don’t think I ever do that, you know, I’ve never looked at fan performance, I just say, that’s what it’s done. Because there’s nothing we can do about it, you know, all they can do is either put more in or spend less. So, you know, I’d say your education fund is on track, or it’s not on track. So, you know, we can’t talk about performance, I can’t do anything about it, you can’t do anything about it. It just happens. So they know they’re in the right fund, we’ve placed them in the right fund for what they’re trying to achieve. So we’re going to write it out, right. So there’s no point even talking about fund portfolio. It’s

Louis van der Merwe
brilliant, brilliant. I love how you position that and say, Okay, this is where add value, this is what you can control. Been, this has been a wonderful conversation. I mean, I can’t believe how this time just flew by. If people want to reach out to you and maybe want to have a conversation, potential doctors, or just someone in the industry, what’s the best way to get ahold of you?

Ben Charlton
Either on LinkedIn, you can get ahold of me on LinkedIn. You can get ahold of me through the client care, website, Instagram. I’m kind of everywhere. So wherever you send me a message I’ll, I’ll get back to you.

Louis van der Merwe
Thank you so much for being here today and sharing the way you show up for clients. It’s been so refreshing and all the best with these life changing conversations.

Ben Charlton
Thanks, Louis. It’s a pleasure being here.