Changing Landscape of Retirement #3 – Jason Andriessen – Transcript

Episode details

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

retirement, people, retire, advice, retirees, financial planner, money, age pension, control, good, life, advisors, costs, impacted, study, years, pay, insights, score, community

SPEAKERS

Jason Andriessen, Fraser Jack

 

Fraser Jack 

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Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the Expert Advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack. And of course, we are still talking about the changing landscape of retirement. So to go through a whole lot of data and stats on the on the topic of I’m joined by Jason Andreessen from Core Data the head of APEC, welcome.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Thank you praise it. Pleasure to be here. Very excited to be talking about such an exciting topic.

 

Fraser Jack 

I know you love your data analytics and getting into your insights and what what comes from the data. So I’m prepared to prepare again to geek out with me on the subject.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, I love I love talking about retirement as well ballooning up. Yeah, yeah, actually, you

 

Fraser Jack 

do a lot of talking about retirement don’t live with different super funds. And and all that.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, absolutely. So I spend most of my days talking about retirement or talking about financial advice. And I think in this instance, I’ll be able to talk about both

 

Fraser Jack 

feels like I’ve come to the right place. Let’s kick it off. Let’s start talking about the changing landscape of retirement. And obviously, there’s all there’s a stack of moving parts to this conversation. But let’s start with maybe the conversation around more than just money in and what retirement means for retirees.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Fraser. So this is a conversation I’ve been I kick started about 12 months ago, out of out of frustration that certainly my background is financial planner, and managing financial planners for a long time, saw the transformational impact of advice that was way more than just the money, but the conversation around retirement seem to be all about adequacy. And, and money that in that, in that context, so called out of the clever people are called out, embarked on this, on this research that we call the best possible retirement research. And we did 12 months ago, and I’m keen to share some of the findings from that. And we’re in field at the moment and with with this year’s study, and I’ve actually got some really fresh, like, straight out of the field work, insights to share today on that as well.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. I love that concept of best possible retirement. And it not being just about the money. And but you we see so often, you know, the better position statement being all around the financial aspect.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, it is. The heuristic when it comes to money is fees and returns right. And I get that they’re easy to compare, but there’s so much more to advice, and there’s so much more to retirement than, than those two things hasn’t faced become the topic of this decade. It has and yeah, and the precision that is expected of advisors with their research just blows my mind. Yeah. Anyway.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, it is. It is, it is pretty crazy. But how do we then how do we then take this, the idea of there’s more to it than just the money concept or, you know, happiness or, you know, living a life that you want to live or all those types of things, and quantify and qualify those things to then be able to put into your advice?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah. So that is, is a great question. And we’ve we’ve, we’ve done it. We have invented what we’re calling the best possible retirement index. If you can think of another name, let me know a better name, the best possible retirement index to give a more or less holistic scoreboard of retirement confidence as people approach retirement and retirement set satisfaction and it’s anchored in behavioral economics. So, so what we did, I’m a great fan. I’m sure that others are aware of the Harvard men study that Harvard has been running for 75 For years, it’s it’s called the men study because it started out just just fine with the lives of men. And a lot of these people still alive for a good portion of them 1010 to 20%. And it was actually a longitudinal study to try to understand costs in life. So I don’t have a time machine. So I can’t do that. But we’ve tried to do something similar by replicating a longitudinal study. So we’ve asked identical questions of two different groups, and people who are 45 and older, who have not yet retired, we call that the retirement expectations. And we, and we asked citizen, almost the same questions of retirees or people who identified as, as retired and a good portion of them were over 75. And the end, we call that the retirement outcomes survey. The idea behind that is, what can the wisdom of the experience retirees give to their younger selves? If that makes sense?

 

Fraser Jack 

That does make sense. I always used to love that question, what you know what, what tips would you give yourself? He go back in time, this is essentially the very similar similar thing asking, what data would you give to those people?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yes. And so we’ve got lots of insights into what makes for for a satisfying retirement so much more than just a comfortable retirement a satisfying retirement, we’ve taken cake taking this perspective of, if I feel good about my financial decisions are more likely to take action and engage with my financial decisions. And I’ll do good now. And that will flow into the outcomes. So we, we took that framework and did a great big quantum study and came up with the best possible retirement index score, which is a score from zero to 100, it’s normally distributed around a name of about 50, it was a bit more than 50, it was 53. So 53, with the average score, just to be clear on that, and zero is the worst possible situation a retiree can find themselves in it’s how on earth, and 100 is absolute lis. And obviously, most most people fall between the zero, everyone falls between zero and 100. But most people are not at those extremes. And that then gives us a good measure of the satisfaction people feel in retirement. And, and what might be driving it.

 

Fraser Jack 

Well, I’m looking forward to these insights, tell what is driving it.

 

Jason Andriessen 

So there’s more than money at play. So when we, when we plot the the best possible, best possible retirement score against household wealth, we see that there is a very low correlation, there is a correlation there, money does matter. But it doesn’t matter as much as we would think. And then when we plot wealth against the best possible retirement index score, and look at the different cohorts, we can see that retirees, the richest retirees are the happiest and most satisfied, so the people with more than more than 1 million, and particularly if they’ve got more than 3 million, they’re very satisfied. But the next most satisfied group of retirees actually have household wealth outside the family home of 350 to 550 1000. So So just to be clear, people with 350,000 550,000 are happier than every other cohort who is wealthier than them right up until the million dollar cohort. And the next happiest group of the poorest group, people with 150,000 or less have significantly higher well being satisfaction with retirement confidence in retirement than people who are wealthier with them. And the group that is most miserable in retirement have between 550 and 750,000. of household wealth.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fraser There are so there’s so much in here, isn’t there? There is just like, you know, does that mean? Those people are the expectations haven’t been met in a lot of ways as it does.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Right? I think the the expectations are, are at play. And the and I think that really explains why the people with less than 150 grand are so happy because these people have never been raised. They’ve never had expectations of the s for retirement standard of whatever it is 64 grand a year. They’ve never had that. And the age pension, paid fortnightly is satisfying them clearly and giving them confidence that they can afford to live and adult Also important if they’re in their own heart, but we’ll, we’ll talk about that in a sec. Yeah.

 

Fraser Jack 

You mentioned the age pension there. That’s a big part of this, isn’t it? Because that then covers those lives of the in that in that lowest group you talked about?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah. And I think if you overlay the, the asset test thresholds, I think there’s that at play as well. So there’s relativity, that 350 to 550,000 group, they’ve kind of got the best of both worlds. And particularly if they’re in their own home, they’ve got they’ve got some flexibility with the wealth that they have. And they’ve got the Social Security, the the age pension coming in. But these people in the wealthier cohorts, particularly those between with between 750 and a million died times. And and I think that is a major impact on them as well.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I think it’s amazing, isn’t it? How much the pension means to retirees?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, it is. I think, not to not to jump to the conclusion too early in this conversation. But I think that’s because of the continuity of income. I think that is a major, major driver of retirement satisfaction. And if you can have confidence that the you know, the the, the next paycheck will be arriving in your room, in your account, then that makes a real difference. Doesn’t matter. What also makes a difference phrase is whether or not you feel in control of the retirement and control of the things that matter.

 

Fraser Jack 

I’ll come back to control in a second. You mentioned the home being a big impact. Can we talk with? Can we talk through that?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, so we last year, we tested homeownership for against the best possible retirement index. And what became very clear, is that when you own your own home, you have a much better retirement than if you run if you’re renting, or if you still have a mortgage left to pay. So this rule of thumb that advisors have always had that, since I’ve been in financial services for 25 years, that it’s good to reach retirement and extinguish your mortgage, absolutely pays some pay pays benefits. So just just the data on that this best possible retirement score went from zero to 100, where, where the average is about 53. If a retiree is renting, they only have a score of 37. If they live in their home, but they still have a mortgage left to pay, their score is 49.4. Still worse than average? And if they own their own home outright jumps right up to 62.8. So it is that is, I would say the clearest driver of retirement satisfaction and happiness in retirement, whether or not you’re on your own.

 

Fraser Jack 

It’s incredible, isn’t it? So it’s, it’s got a lot to do with, you know, being having control uncertainty, I guess of the two things around owning your own home.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Fraser Jack 

Are you willing to control the conversation or control before? Let’s dig into that? How does that make a big difference? And where will? Where are they getting it from? Yeah, so

 

Jason Andriessen 

the key drivers of retirement success, whether you own your own home, but when you when you unpack that it’s about a feeling of control, feeling of certainty, a feeling of continuity, and the certainty that you can continue in the community spending time with, that you’ve always, always spent time with. And the really sad fact is that and this is this is fascinating, and something that I didn’t know until we did this study, but most people don’t actually retire at a time of their choice. They, they their retirement date is is forced on them most people last year was a bit over 50% this year so far is 56% or even higher, probably with COVID. And people retire as a timing not of their choice for three three reasons that are out of their control that their own health issues for some into retirement. They have to care for a loved one is another major reason because of their health. And and and the third is simply they get the sack they run. They’re forced into unemployment.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s a that’s a huge numbers. Because we’ve always sort of said, it’s, it’s very hard to work out when you’re going to retire and people sort of put an arbitrary date on and that sort of either becomes the date or whatever it might be, but but that’s that’s a huge number, you know, nearly nearly six and 10 people don’t get to have that choice.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah. And that point around, it changes what financial advice is I think financial planning advice. Financial Planning, as we all know commonly is he said a goal, you take a status check of where you are and you create an action plan to bridge the gap. But only the same data shows that only 7% of people retire at specific age they intended for either. So what is the role of a financial advisor, then? I think I think a large portion of the value of advice is helping people feel more in control. And, and just to get back to this best possible retirement index score, we then plotted the scores of people living in retirement who did retire, for those, for one of those three reasons out of their control, and they don’t recover. Obviously, the health is a major driver of retirement satisfaction. So there’s more at play than just being out of control with the health issue. But the score of people who are forced into retirement by health was just 42. So Well, well, well, behind the average. But it’s not just that. So if I was forced into retirement, because of unemployment by score in retirement is still 45.8. So I don’t recover, I don’t recover emotionally. And I don’t have this internal internal locus of control that I can, that I can control the things that are important. I can’t control everything, but there are still leaders that I can I can hold on to, people don’t feel like that.

 

Fraser Jack 

He just mentioned the word lost or out of control or loss of control. And that is that in not being able to recover from it emotionally. Yeah, I’m, you know, I’m just trying to emphasize and it does, it doesn’t feel very nice to be out of control and not being able to recover.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah. And so I think financial planners have a huge opportunity there to address that. Because suddenly, you can’t control things in your personal life, and unexpected things happen. But we can help people feel like they’ve got more financial resilience when bad things happen, and, and help people understand that they’ve got control of their expenditure. And that’s a major import that that’s a major thing. And, and when they spend and how much they spend, they can control how they invest. And, and they can even control against their biggest fear, which is running out of money in retirement. Right. They can, there are solutions to that.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, exactly. Now, before we get into the biggest fear conversation, you mentioned, also that part of staying in your own home was staying in the same community. And obviously, community is a big part of you know, what’s driving emotions and retirement?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, it is. Absolutely. So there are three big drivers certainty around income, so continuity of income, feeling of control. And in the end, the third big C is, is community. So very clearly being able to continue to be involved with the people I’ve always been involved with. The ability to be involved with the causes I’ve always been involved with, is so so important, which, which is kind of counterintuitive. But I used to be a financial planner living in Tamworth, I’ve lived in Tamworth twice in my career. And as the number of people I saw retiring to the coast as if it was one spot, which always amused me that they would retire to the coast. And five years later, they come back and that obviously, done a lot of dough in transaction costs. Because it turns out that retiring and leaving your community and the people you care most about your family that you’ve spent spent years with and starting fresh isn’t as satisfying as people might think. And and they return home.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, yeah. And so when it comes to community, it’s all sorts of I guess it’s starting early, isn’t it? That’s not something that you start when you retire. You sort of want to have that moving through into retirement.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, that’s absolutely right. Yeah. So these people who start a hobby in retirement have got it wrong. They should they should be getting involved with their community. And from a from a young age from 40, I’d say,

 

Fraser Jack 

yeah. And planners should be definitely taking that into consideration when it comes to what their goals are.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, exactly.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Now, you mentioned the big problem of running out of money. What what stats Have you got on that? And is that is that something that a lot of people have, like, that’s the big fear, I guess, you could say,

 

Jason Andriessen 

is the biggest fear that pre retirees have. So the people in the run up to retirement say that, it’s worth saying as well that with his best possible retirement research, what we found was that pre retirees score on average, worse and retirees, when you’re measuring how that how good they feel, how engaged they are, with their money, and, and their confidence and their outcomes and, and expectations for the future. Pre retirees are a lot more nervous and have and have less well being and worry a lot more than retirees. So something strange happens at retirement. It’s a time of turmoil. But after a period which seems to be between six and six months and a couple of years People settle in, and the people who retire successfully know where their money is coming from, and realize that they can control how much they spend and recognize 85% of people ever retirees, 85% of retirees can recognize the difference between their discretionary wants and, and their financial needs. And the same number 85% are willing to cut back when things go off track. And when they realize that they they do have control of these things, they do have some age pension coming in, they’ve got some money coming in from their investments. And they realize they can still go to the pub and and shout their mates to his old or VB or Forex, wherever you live, and still do the things I’ve always done with the people that are most important to them. It gives them real, real confidence in that.

 

Fraser Jack 

So there’s a big there’s a big piece in this transition isn’t there? Because obviously, you mentioned the the what I took out to be anxiety of the pre retirees. We haven’t been there yet with it’s unknown. We don’t quite know how it’s gonna work out. There’s still a space that’s quite scary. And then that transition zone that you mentioned was six months to two years

 

Jason Andriessen 

seems to be Yeah. A period of transition, as you just mentioned, settling in. And but that is an opportunity for further research. I would say that what’s what’s happening in that era of transition?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fantastic. And so the fear factor then came out of it a little bit when it comes to those that had passed that retirement stage. And then they knew what they were doing.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yes, it is. It is clear, statistically significant that pre retirees one it worry about money and running out of money in retirement more than people living in retirement, that fear dissipates.

 

Fraser Jack 

There are people living retirements still have fears, but they tend to change from money to

 

Jason Andriessen 

health. Health. Really?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, it changes and and how does health have a big impact on your study?

 

Jason Andriessen 

Well, retirees worry more about health and than anything else. And as we’ve, as we’ve already talked about, health is a major driver of retirement satisfaction.

 

Fraser Jack 

And that taught me about partners and genders and couples and how all this works.

 

Jason Andriessen 

So this is where we went this year. This is the data that that is super fresh, we’re still in field actually. And we’ll be in field for another month or so. But we we decided to have a look at what the how relationships might impact on retirement, happiness and retirement satisfaction. And what we what we’ve seen is that married people are far more financially resilience, they worry less about money, significantly less and less about money, this point of how they retire. This the the nature of their retirement, the differences between living situations, whether you’re single, whether you’re around divorced or widowed, or whether you’re living with your partner or married is extreme. So just as an example, the separated divorced or widowed people 40 40% of them are forced into retirement by health issues. So they’ve got less financial resilience, resilience compared to people who are married that that only half that proportion are forced into health, forced into retirement through health, obviously, the stability of having a partner helps from that situation. So this is a lot to unpack right. And the 5% of people who are separated or divorced, retire their plan date, and they are feeling far more out of control than the people who are who are married

 

Fraser Jack 

or have something to do with the you know, just having somebody there with them to go through, you know, feeling feeling like they’ve been more alone going through this.

 

Jason Andriessen 

I think so I as I said, I’m looking forward to, to really analyzing this. This is really fresh data. But I’ve got some, some figures there here about how often people worry and, and divorce people 47% of them worry rarely. That figure for married people is significantly higher. It’s at 65% of people who are married worry rarely, people who are divorced and separated 40% of them worry either daily or weekly, that money and people who are married, it’s attached to that and the 20% of them.

 

Fraser Jack 

However, these tests compared with your figures that you did on the recently around COVID and people worrying about money over that period of time that are in the workforce.

 

Jason Andriessen 

It’s a good thing. It’s a good question. So we did do a lot of that. A lot of that work. The reality is the initial fears of the we’ve got the cage shaped economy happening. We have most people in Australia have fared it turns out through COVID. Very well, they were very worried early on that they wouldn’t have they were saying they were personally impacted financially. But it turned out they were and personally financial impacted. Very Yeah, for a very short period of time. But we do have those people that are, are in those industries, like the restaurants and travel industries that have been impacted, their careers have been impacted, and frankly, could be years before they’re back on back on track. And those people are obviously suffering real financial stress. And the unfortunate thing about statistics is averages lie. So the average I could give you would say that is very similar. But there are some really miserable people out there.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. The the K shaped economy, that’s one way to I haven’t heard that been spoken about before. So that’s definitely one way to look at it.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, so you just have to have a look at the the GDP figures by sector. And you can see there that there have been some sectors that have only markedly been impacted, some of it positively impacted. That the restaurants and the hospitality and the the travel that’s been decimated, right.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, yep. So a lot of people that are retiring now, haven’t had an opportunity have had a long period of superannuation guarantee throughout their life. They’ve obviously had a fair amount of it, but not not the full amount of time going through, how’s that affecting it? How do you see the soul shaping in the future as superannuation guaranteed becomes something that that people have had all of their working life.

 

Jason Andriessen 

The key message here is that and this is heresy in in the superannuation communities, I spend time in more suit, that does not necessarily mean better outcomes, right? There’s a major bit of play, it’s something I haven’t spoken about, and I need me to is the transformative impact of advice for retirees. So the retirees the Delta, between a retiree who doesn’t have an active relationship with a financial planner, and then and and the ones that do is some chalk and cheese, I’ll get all the I’ll get to the figures in a moment. So what we what we see is that advice has this extraordinary, transformative impact in the lives of retirees, and we measured it with the best possible best possible retirement index. And what we what we saw is that retirees who don’t have a relationship with a financial planner, have worse retirement well being than average, with a score of 48.8. But people who have an active relationship with the financial advisor score 64, which is just that delta is, it’s just extraordinary and statistically significant. So the issue is that there’s way more than money at play here, there’s way more than super balance at play. So I think that superfunds need to get their heads around the fact that there’s more to good retirement than the 9.5 or even 15% contributions, obviously, the more the better for them for retiree just as long as they don’t pay for it today. We have lost income, but it’s not going to have the transformative impact on their lives that advice will have or owning their own home frankly.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Can you talk to me about the different bands within the advice transformation pact? You know, you mentioned before that the the band of over 1 million are the happiest and and the 350 to 550 or the the next happiest whatever they talk to me about the the how financial planning works in those bands, because we’re kind of obviously seeing an affordability of financial advice issue. As we’re going down the track. We’re sort of knowing that in advices, costing a lot of money so those with more money, getting advice with your studies, were the people that are on 150 or less getting financial advice.

 

Jason Andriessen 

So no is the answer that they’re they’re getting some well being from from other structures like, like the age pension, the reality is that unfortunately, financial advice is being priced out of the reach of, of people who need it most and people who need it most are these people who who do who are approaching retirement hesitantly or are feeling out of control as they approach retirement, we’re forced into retirement more around more. More importantly, this disconnect between what it costs advisors to provide advice and willingness to pay for advice, which I put down to anchoring in how much it costs to see other professionals in your life. You can you can get medical grade medical care for around a lot less than a financial plan costs, simply because a financial planner has to spend so long meeting meeting the client’s needs and substantiating their advice because of the regulatory environment. But I don’t want to get too controversial. The fact that his advice is worth every sense. If If clients can can just understand the value of advice and value advice is way more than better returns and lower fees and the products you recommend the well being aspects of the advice. And we know that people who seek advice have better overall overall well being they have better mental well being they have better physical well being they drink less, they sleep more, they’ve got better relationships, then less likely to be involved in in a violent relationship. It’s better for families. When people access access advice, the the the challenge is reducing the cost to deliver advice and and helping the value of advice become more tangible. And I think

 

Fraser Jack 

this is really amazing stuff isn’t I’m just writing this down as we go, you know, the mental physical relationships, families, or I’m By the way, you’ll be financially better off as well.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Yeah, yeah. So this, this argument of I can’t afford advice. I do. I do get that starting point because of because we’re how people are anchored. But helping clients understand that advice is worth every cent. But having said that, it does matter how much advice costs. So when so the financial planning industry needs to innovate and, and actively work towards making, reducing cost basis with efficiency is every other industry needs to

 

Fraser Jack 

you mentioned the medical industry before, it’s kind of I think everybody’s used to having 15 minute consultations and going in and out and if not paying very much money, you know, that it’s subsidized by the government, the government, you know, paying the money, while the rest of the taxpayers, I should say paying, but you know, they do understand the doctors getting paid, but just hear that it’s very, it’s very short and sharp and a 15 minute intervals.

 

Jason Andriessen 

I think, I think just a personal anecdote, just very quickly, I had oral surgery. I had some teeth extracted, my wisdom teeth extracted all the world’s oldest person to do that.

 

Fraser Jack 

Finally got wise. So they took the wisdom teeth out. Yeah,

 

Jason Andriessen 

I had, I had an oral surgeon, I had a nice that as I had feared nurses, I had nurses afterwards to care for me. And it all costs less than what a financial planner charges. And that is because the only paperwork with the invoice. That’s what that’s what I believe it’s and we’ve done these studies, right? With, in conjunction with the FBI over years and years of how long it takes to produce a statement of advice and and still the takes more than between 10 and 20 hours to produce a statement of advice. And that’s that’s what’s killing us. Yes,

 

Fraser Jack 

but the feeling was the same style of advice still feels like pulling teeth. Sorry, I couldn’t resist couldn’t resist. And so tell me about the study like this. You just said you’re a couple of years into the study, when When are you planning on publishing some of these results are getting them out about

 

Jason Andriessen 

well, with your good self, we have started the process, which is, which is really exciting. Yeah, so we are partnering with a number of super funds on this on this study. So we’re going to end up with a great big sample kind of multiples of the last years. And we’ll be out of field work in mid April, actually. And and then the real, the real work begins because that’s when we do our statistical analysis. And that’s where you went throughout your insights and looking forward to sharing the findings and starting a new conversation a better conversation about retirement and retirement adequacy. And, and everyone needs more super.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, exactly. Right. And and so the so that’ll come in the next few months, like keep an eye out for all those things. Talk to me about the the age groups that you’re in this study those people that are then now in the in the later years of their life. So not just that they’ve just started out in retirement, but they’re in the in the later years of their lives. We work really hard at that.

 

Jason Andriessen 

So retirement is an amazing thing. Like we the design of this study where we decided actually it was a mindset rather than then an age. So we we even had strange Have a sense, judgemental probably is we have we had respondents who were 7070 years old, and have been unemployed for five years. It’s that issue of not getting their heads around it and, and I’m still in the game and and I’m not actually retired, I’m unemployed. But so so it was a mindset, the only age cut offs we had were 45. So we want to mature people who are not distracted with other areas of life, people are turning their minds to retirement. So 45 year olds, two as old as people could be, who were considered themselves still working. And, and, and a group of retirees who consider themselves retired. And a good portion of those were over 75.

 

Fraser Jack 

You asked us before about coming up with a name for your index. But if we had to rename retirement, you know, obviously, there’s a there’s a sec requirement around the you know, when you can and can access things, but apart from that mindset, but where are we going with that? And it is it does it have to be called retirement?

 

Jason Andriessen 

I don’t think it does. Yeah, it’s very, in 100 years, retirement will be considered this strange period of time, kind of like landline phones, that were that were there for a window. You know, 100 years ago, the life expectancy of Australian mail was what 58 or something 56 there was no such thing as retirement. And, and there’s a good chance that there’s no such thing as retirement moving forward, right people around, people are still looking to contribute into into very old age. So I think this, I think this whole idea of retirement could very well be have been invented in the 1980s. And may may be dead. Pretty soon,

 

Fraser Jack 

though, with a little bit the instigators of getting rid of the word getting rid of retirement. It’s funny isn’t how these things come in. And they just stick around and be because that’s the way we always used to talk about it. But it doesn’t actually make sense for the next generation coming through.

 

Jason Andriessen 

No, it doesn’t. I agree. Oh, fantastic.

 

Fraser Jack 

So if somebody wants to continue this conversation they have what’s the best way for them to get hold of you

 

Jason Andriessen 

on LinkedIn on LinkedIn? Follow me on LinkedIn. I am regularly publishing and regularly publishing really interesting stuff. So please, please link me in your I do. I do read it and think Gee, that’s interesting. That makes some good, good, tough conversations. I

 

Fraser Jack 

will probably have you back on I would, I would imagine fairly soon. Good.

 

Jason Andriessen 

Thanks, guys. I loved it. Thank you, Jason.

 

Fraser Jack 

Well, there you have it. Another episode of The X Y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack, and I’m joined by Emily. Yay.

 

 

Yay. Yes, you are our favorite time of the week.

 

Fraser Jack 

It is it’s time to do a really cool shout out to an ex member.

 

 

Yes. Today’s shout out goes to Korea kid darzee. We’re calling her helpful period. She is our top contributor for the week. And I know Hurriya has been doing a lot of work in her faster exam workshops and her other training courses and programs that she runs and facilitates on x y. She is in there every single day, answering questions being as responsive as she can and just really trying to help advisors level up in their faster exam prep, but also just general education questions as well. She’s such a she’s just a lovely person, and she truly you know, embodies the x y community spirit, so definitely worth a big shout out. You’re doing amazing stuff here. Yeah, keep up the good work legend.