#375 Chris Morcom – Transcript

Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben Nash from the ensemble team. And today I’m here with Chris Morcom. Chris is a partner and wealth advisor at Houston private wealth. Chris, great to have you here, man.

Chris Morcom
Thanks, Ben, thanks very much.

Ben Nash
I thought a good place to start is, is really just, you know, your advice journey and how you’ve ended up where you are today.

Chris Morcom
Sure, I suppose I started advising back in 1997. But, you know, part of my journey began before that, where, you know, I graduated from university, in the middle of the recession we had to have, so it was a bit of a potter journey. And it was through a mentor that I got introduced to the founder of our business, John Hewson, in 97. And then, and by then I’d pretty much completed my CPA qualification. So then some more study to finish. And qualified, my CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNING qualifications ensued. And by I think it was after two and a half years or so, I was advising, and it coincided when John was chair of the Financial Planning Association. So it was, it was actually really interesting year where he wasn’t around much. And I ended up taking the lead role and a lot of new clients that year, and probably a bit of a baptism of fire, but managed to manage to not make any major errors, but probably learned a lot about meetings and how they get the best out of clients and the best information for clients. And probably, in that first year, really, probably, we made a few mistakes in meetings that, you know, those clients probably wondered what on earth this young bloke was doing there. But I certainly, you know, that gave me a really strong foundation. And then now number of years, and only probably three or four years later became a partner in the business. And our business has been built on a graduate mentoring program where the we take on graduates, as associate advisors, we put them through their professional qualifications at the same time they are being mentored by the senior advisors in the firm. And then once they finish their professional qualifications, and we deem them ready to be put in front of clients, we transitioned some clients to them, and they start building out their their own client base, and I was the first cab off that rank. And my business partners came shortly after and we’re now on to the fourth generation of associates coming through.

Ben Nash
Amazing, that’s, that’s interesting that you were the very first one. And I think it’s a great way to learn, I know pivot wealth, we do things the same way each advisors got an associate the associate does a fair bit of the grunt work. And, you know, when they start early days, what they’re what they’re able to do is less and over time, they learn more, and then they can do more, and the advisor is obviously happy to for them to do as much as possible, because it means they get to do less and spend more time, you know, working on clients working on strategies, as well, but it also means that then for the associate when they’re ready, then they’re, they’re ready. And they’ve they’re probably more advanced. And we’ve brought in a couple of really great senior advisors into the business, but we found that they really then have to learn the process, the approach, how we do them, what’s the business view on this and x y Zed, whereas for the associates, it’s like they know this stuff inside out because they’ve done it 100 times or more by the time they get there. So great also beats, you know, recruiting? Well, you know, it’s easier to bring in people that are less experienced and mold them into to what you want, then, you know, finding someone that’s already got that experience as well, the in my experience, Chris, what does a typical client look like for you guys? And for you specifically within the business? You guys work with a range?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, so Well, we’ve got obviously a wide range of experience in our advice team. So for someone like myself has been doing this for 25 years. Our my main focus is clients with investable wealth beyond a million dollars but generally speaking, the clients I’m talking to probably have 3 million plus that we look after us but our business, our business target is for targets those people as individuals and families with them in million dollars investable wealth and above or have a high income are going to get there in a reasonable time. That’s one of the things probably need to explain is that practices multigenerational. So some of the clients that we’re looking after today, their grandparents initially started as clients and so we are have a strong focus in, in our business of making sure that when we’re talking to an individual or family, that we’re making sure we’re looking after the next generations, so that when the time comes for the transfer of wealth, we can help the family do that in a way that’s cost efficient, tax efficient, and achieves everyone’s goals and objectives. But also help the family through discussions around things like you know, if there’s a significant amount of wealth, how that transfer of wealth can be done in a way, that doesn’t mean that little Johnny or Jenny is never never working again. But it’s still got a, you know, a bit of a drive to do well.

Ben Nash
Interesting, no doubt, how do you how do you practically incorporate that into conversations? Because obviously, the the intergenerational wealth transfer huge opportunity out there at the moment, people retiring and going to the next generation? How do you guys bake it in?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, it starts off, you know, obviously, the the first first thing to do is to look after the clients who are sitting in front of you, that’s the obviously the first first thing you have to do. The next thing we do is we ask about their children, and then what situation they’re in. And if one of the easy wins is insurances, making sure that you know, if they’ve got children, if your clients have got children who early stages of the career, maybe you got a young family, probably got debts in relation to their homes, clearly need insurance and making often most people are underinsured. So usually in need of advice. And we always talk to our clients from the perspective of Well look, if your son or daughter was to have a, you know, have something happen, which meant they couldn’t financially meet their needs, you you’re probably going to be required to tip money in to help them along, you’re not going to sit back and watch them flounder. So that’s going to then put at risk your retirement planning. So we often talk to the parents about Well, would you like to fund the first couple of years of insurance premiums to get them going, and so they can see the benefits of it. And often, the families will share the cost of insurance. So it’s a conversation, we start right at the very start when we’re talking to our clients. And just making sure that we’ll don’t forget that whatever happens to your children’s probably going to impact on you. So let’s, let’s talk about that now.

Ben Nash
And what about the wealth transfer? Specifically? Like how, obviously, it’s a bit of a tricky one, like, how do you? How do you guys tackle that?

Chris Morcom
Well, particularly with the significant levels of wealth, you know, sort of 15 20 million plus? It’s an active conversation, because those clients are, it’s one thing that he’s worrying them, they want to know, how’s this going to happen? What’s going to happen if I die? Who’s going to get access to the money? How can we protect it. And so we have those, it’s an ongoing conversation, particularly around the estate planning, and we have a lot of conversations around estate planning in that context. And then then there’ll become a point where, particularly with some families, what we’ve done is, rather than the children go off and borrow money from a bank to fund their first home, they’ll borrow money, perhaps from the family trust, and it’ll be a secured mortgage arrangement. And we we’ve sort of facilitate that so that the children aren’t getting necessarily free money. But there’s, and the trust is protected in case something happens through the mortgage arrangements documented, and the lawyers are all involved in this. But it certainly keeps the wealth within the family rather than to external parties. And that’s another strategy we’ve used as well. The final strategy that we do use is and it’s a live one with a client at the moment is they’ve got teenage children. And so and they’ve had they’ve had a sale of business, it’s done better than they could have thought. And they’re looking at the amount of money and the comment was, well, how much is enough, and they’ve got way more capital than they need to meet their needs. And their concerns are will you know, they don’t want their teenage children to know about the extent of the wealth because it’s certainly at their at an impressionable age, and it may change the way their children think about the future. So what they’re what we’re doing with that particular family is putting in place a philanthropic Fund, and the children are going to be involved in the management of helping manage that philanthropic funds. So they’ll get exposed to us and the management of the investments of that philanthropic fund without being exposed to the wider wealth of the family just to get the those teenagers involved in the process as an early age. So they get used to taking advice they get used to being involved in these types of discussions. So when the time comes to, I suppose come clean on the on the family wealth, when they’re a bit older. You Have a, they’ll, they’ll have an understanding of how the process works and what they need to be the types of conversations there’ll be needing to have.

Ben Nash
I like it. And also, I like the idea of shielding them from from the wealth. That’s we have only you’ve probably in the last couple of years started dealing with a few more clients that have the more significant levels of wealth. And yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, that it does change the way that people think about things, or it has the risk of doing that role. So definitely a good strategy you touched on? Yeah, yeah.

Chris Morcom
I was just gonna say just on that, though, that that family, you gotta understand the fight that family dynamics, before you sort of go into that area, because you’ve got to understand what those what the parents thoughts are, I’ve got one particular situation where the parent is not willing to part with any of their cash until they die. And so even though that person knows there’s perhaps need in her children’s lives for the cash, they’re not going to part with it until they die. And it’s an interesting, donate. In the end, it’s not, it’s not my money, it’s their money. And all you can do as an advisor is point out the advantages and disadvantages of different course of action. And, and the risks associated with H. But that’s all you can do as an advisor, you can’t tell someone what to do.

Ben Nash
And there’s a lot of different ways to be right there. And it’s such a personal thing as well. So I suppose it depends on the individual and and what they think you touched on philanthropic investing there. And I know that that’s a space that you’re passionate about. How How does that all come about?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, well, that goes back to the early 2000s. When, what what used to be called prescribed private funds, but then now, PDFs are private ancillary funds, they came into being in the early 2000s, to help Australians give more money. And when I first came across them, there was a great degree of similarity between them and self managed super funds in terms of terms of the requirements of having to manage them, I suppose. And so it was an end because we were dealing in the self managed Superfund sector in a big way. It just made sense to me that this is something that we could we have the skill set to be able to help our clients with if they are interested in philanthropy. So I just started asking clients are they are you interested in philanthropy straight up? And and and often that starts a conversation, you never know where it’s gonna go, some people not interested. But you’ll be surprised when you actually ask the question where it goes, it’s, it’s quite a fascinating, a fascinating discussion to have with people. And so I’ve been able to facilitate people, because of course, you get a tax deduction upfront for putting the money into this into the fund. So, you know, for for recent business client, for example, they they’re getting a massive tax deduction by putting some of their capital into a private NC Lottery Fund. So not only is it helping them help their teenage children to around the education side of things, it’s actually helping them on the on the tech side as well. And so, yeah, so but I also got involved that led to things and they ended up being involved in the community foundation network. So in Australia is quite a strong because it’s got quite a strong community foundation that were particularly strong in Victoria, actually. And and so I presented a couple of their conference conferences and got to know a few of the board members and ended up we’re now look after about six, five or six different Community Foundation’s here in Victoria. And that’s been a really rewarding thing, because you’re not dealing with it. You’re not dealing with individuals, what are you actually doing community wealth and a board of directors and it’s a different, it’s a different way of advising because you’re advising a board rather than individual and then their own work. So it’s, it’s quite a different dynamic, but it’s been very rewarding as well. And that, and that’s sort of, I suppose, led me led us to where we are today, where we look after about 12 to 15 Different philanthropic trusts or foundations along including some private ones.

Ben Nash
I think you’ll feel like you’re touching on some pretty sexy advice stuff there when you talk about the you know, working with funds and the directors, so just private clients, you eight figures plus in wealth. You know, advisors don’t really start there, but I know from talking to a lot of advisors and for myself included, it’s like that there is an attraction to that sort of work. How do you go about building out the skill set and the tools, the advice, tools, strategies, tactics and approach to, to bring on clients like that and and add the value that you do?

Chris Morcom
So that’s a great question, Ben, when I first joined the firm, our minimum client size was $100,000. And it didn’t change for awhile. And so we’ve actually got a number of clients that we look after that don’t have, you know, heaps and heaps of money, because they’re, you know, throwback to those days. But then, like, anyone who starts a business, anyone is prepared to pay your fees as a client, right? So because, you know, you gotta, you gotta pay the bills. And if you don’t have clients, you can’t feed your family. So there’s a real need in the early days to try and get clients. But I think anyone that particularly anyone starting out and practice today, you’ve actually got the you’re starting out in a period where there’s an absolute need for advice, and people with fairly significant wealth, just looking around not knowing where to turn. So I think there’s a real opportunity to build a brand and build a business that look really looks after people without having to sort of start off really small. You asked about skills. So we’ve always had a mentality that our advisors must be degree qualified, and they must hold the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNING designation that’s sort of sort of been our our stake in the ground. And, and, look, I think it just creates a minimum standard that we expect from people. So it’s, and it’s, you know, there’s obviously, that that’s morphed and changed over the last 25 years, in terms of what what you need to do to become a CFP, and, and continue to hold it, but in the end, it does. It does, yes, putting that that shingle up that says, Well, I’ve done all the study, I know what I’m talking about, we independent we always have been. So we even do insurance on a fee for service basis. So that, that in itself is an attraction for high high net worth families and individuals because they are looking for bespoke outcomes. And, and the idea of independencies is attractive to them. I would suggest though, that anyone planning to do that needs to think click click carefully about the structuring of their business, because I think the one of the challenges of running a bespoke investment business is that you can drown in the paperwork. And, and, and so that’s been a, it’s an ongoing challenge for our business, you know, scaling a business of our size, and keep maintaining that bespoke model is not without its challenges. And, and I, we’re always looking for ways to be more efficient, it’s still it’s still provide our clients with that bespoke model of outcomes. So I suppose the final point I’d make is, we’ve always, we’ve always focused on continuing development with John was heavily involved with the Financial Planning Association, I sat on our financial planning Education Council for about eight years. We, you know, education and continued development of our people is, is so important, and we we just don’t stop. And so that’s the, I suppose the fine, you know, the other part to it. And that’s not just technical skills, it’s, it’s also your interpersonal skills, and building trust, the marketing, sales, training, all of that it’s a, you just got to keep working on it, because you never know it all.

Ben Nash
Absolutely. And in my experience, I found that the technical piece, obviously that’s your ticket to the game, but it’s it’s probably one of the other things that are as important, if not more alone, obviously, you can’t get it wrong on the technical stuff. But as you didn’t get it wrong, that’s nowhere near enough. Like it’s such a small, small part of what it takes to be a great advisor and get great outcomes for your clients as well. I

Chris Morcom
agree with I agree with him, but I think the other thing too, is is to know when you don’t know. So you’ve also got to be really comfortable in working closely with other professionals such as solicitors and accountants to give your client the absolute best outcome and know that you know, okay, I know that I know I know about say for example, small business capital gains tax relief, I know about it, but I’m never going to advise someone about it because it’s so complex. And so, you know, as an advisor, you you recognize it, you talk to your clients about and say, look, let’s work with your accountant on on making And this happened in a in the best way possible, and being really open and having an open relationship with those other professionals. They value you then. And then next thing you know, they’re referring clients to you. And that works really well. And that’s an app, our business was built on referrals from other professionals.

Ben Nash
Thank you touched on an interesting point there, through both of those comments that I think regardless of exactly what your ideal client looks like, and what your what your core offering is for those clients, I think that really the key challenge for advice firms as they do scale is to create consistency of approach. So that, you know, we know that every advisor is going to be different, you know, the jokes are a little bit different, their take on, you know, markets, you know, broadly aligned, but a little bit different nuanced as well. I know for us that one of the things and our clients are generally their high income wealth accumulators, not necessarily with a million dollars of investable assets, but they’re certainly on a path to getting there, although they would have their wedding at over a million dollars in assets. And one of our challenges has been, how do we create that consistent experience where we know that all advisors are going to be considering the same levers to get a client to where they want to be and guiding the clients in the similar way. So that if you put 10 clients in the same position with the same thinking around, you know, risk or investing or debt or whatever, through the process, that you would get to 10 Pretty similar outcomes. And I think that’s something that it’s really important to, from from a business perspective, in terms of your your business risk, but also from a team perspective in knowing what what you do from your, you know, selling people into to what you’re doing and making sure that we’re delivering on those promises. How have you guys tackled that in the space that you’re in?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, well, we’ve got a, we’ve got a very deliberate process, as you would expect. So we’ve, we’ve, we go back a step. Every, every year, we have a, a staff conference, we closed the office for two days, take the stuff off site, somewhere nice. And we review aspects of the business. And each conference has a different focus. So one, one year, it might be on personal development of the staff and communication. Another one might be looking at our systems and processes and other one might be, you know, market, whatever aspect is the big issue for that year. That’s what we’re we focused on. And we used to actually have two a year back in the day, which was quite extraordinary. But it did drive a lot of innovation and change in the business. And the, the one, the one thing we worked on some years ago was documenting the process that a client goes through from the day they first contact our business to the day, they are an ongoing client. And and that was really challenging and interesting thing because you know, once you’ve gone through that process, you can see, and you’ve documented, you can see where things can be improved. But once you’ve got a standardized process, and everyone agrees that that’s the process, then all the every client gets the same sort of experience. And then what we’ve done around the advice side is prior to advice being written, particularly for a new client, but it may be a significant change in circumstances as well. We call the workshops and the generally the the associate advisor will present the client scenario to at least two of the senior advice, senior advisors and as many of the associates who are available, and basically put up a snapshot of the client, where they are today, who they are talk through a bit of the details about that client, what their objectives are, what the recommended strategy is going to be it right down to even a proposed asset allocation for the investments. And then and then the force open. And as a result of that you’re getting the best ideas of everyone rather than just that advisor. And it also is a great training tool for those associates to get to hear the advisors talk about things like well, do you think that’s enough money to set up a self managed Superfund or what’s the strategy, what strategy and doing around debt there? Or have you thought about philanthropy in that, in this video, we discussed philanthropy with these clients. And so it’s all and it just gives you that opportunity to have an open discussion. It’s not a there’s no egos in the room. It’s just about what’s the best thing for these clients? And it and the asset allocations critiqued as well, you know, you told us these clients are a bit concerned about volatility yet you’ve got, you know, 60% of the money in, in or 70% of the money exposed to markets, is it? Do you feel comfortable that that’s appropriate to achieving their goals and objectives, so that they’re the sorts of conversations that are had in those in those workshops. And we found that to be hugely valuable.

Ben Nash
I love that. And I can see that particularly for pulling in the associates getting good exposure to lots of clients, as opposed to just the ones that they’re working with would be super valuable for the advisors. Is it? Is it a different advisor than the the advisor? That’s actually the lead advisor for the clients? Or?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, yeah, no, we try and try and get as many in the room as we can. So and the reason for that is that more heads are going to make a better decision in this case. So particularly, it’s often if it’s simple, if it’s a simple sort of situation, and there’s not much contentious sort of, or not much, that there’s going to be an agreement pretty much on what the strategy is going to be, then you, you don’t have to go into a lot of detail. But particularly when you’re dealing with clients of the size we’re dealing with, there’s always going to be something that’s, you know, sitting there might be the completely overweight property and, and talking through a strategy to perhaps rewrite their overall wealth to be less focused on property or, or what have you. So it’s just talking through those things. Often there’s a business sale. And so talking through what, what are the issues around that business sale? And has the funding been thought of? And is it vendor finance? Is that what’s what’s the sale mechanism? So those types of things also discussed?

Ben Nash
I love that. Definitely. Just writing some notes here. So

Chris Morcom
yeah, it’s just a simple, we don’t have a complicated we’ve just, we’ve created a standard template in Excel, that’s got, you know, the names of the client, the ages, their family situation, what income they earn, what their estate planning arrangements are, what insurance arrangements, they’ve got, in place, a summary of their current asset position and debt position. And then, as I said, a quick snapshot of their goals there. What, and then what suggested strategy? So we’re not, we’re not asking the group to come up with a strategy. The adviser and the associate who are presenting this workshop actually have to do the work prior to the workshop and say, Well, this is the strategy we’re going to do. And this is sort of roughly the, the, the structure in which we’re looking at it. And then it might be a simple one minute, one or two minutes meeting where we quickly go through the sub client scenario. And then everyone says, Yep, that looks right. Nothing to add, off we go. But it’s a great, it’s a great way to just make sure everyone’s keeping an eye on I suppose the, the, the strategies we’re doing from a responsible manager perspective, which is what I’m one of our responsible managers, I take great comfort that we’re documenting in that spreadsheet, the alternative strategies. Certainly. So, for example, if we’re setting up self managed Superfund, the alternative strategy might be retaining the existing one using industry from use of retail funds, and the reasons why they’re not appropriate in that circumstance.

Ben Nash
And I imagined that then from that meeting, it would be fairly efficient for the for the associate with the advisor to then, you know, put together the strategy to lay it all out by deadlines to clients as well. So got that on. Yeah. On a bunch of levels. Yes, absolutely. Changing, changing gears a little bit. Sure. Looking forward, what’s what’s coming up for you guys? What are you focused on at the moment?

Chris Morcom
Yeah, so we’re very much focused on I suppose two things. One is growth and one’s innovation. So in terms of growth, we’ve got huge, we’ve got quite a number of associates coming through. So we need to keep growing the business so that there’s going to be clients for them to manage when they become advisors. So a key focus of ours is to keep growing the business, you know, to sell it within keep giving people opportunities. So that’s sort of one thing. The other. An innovation is probably the other major one. And that is, we’ve changed our tech stack over the last five or six years. I’ve actually was mid 2018. We recognize that the technology we’re using at the time, which was a bespoke system that we’ve developed over 30 years, had come to the end of its useful life. And that new technologies had come into the market. That meant that, you know, for example, that old system didn’t play well with the internet, and remote working. And so we we, on the back of Andrew, and Simon, a few others doing innovation tours with with the Macquarie van group, they came together and devised a tech stack with taking best of breed off the shelf programs, and then making sure that they met with our needs. And so that’s an ongoing investment and process where we now have turned off effectively the old system. And we’re now fully operational, the new systems and now starting to enhance those new systems to be more closely aligned to the service delivery that we want and make sure that our internal processes are are efficient. So there’s a huge amount of work to be done on that this year. To probably capitalize on all the work that’s been done over the last three to five years.

Ben Nash
Yeah, it’s a bit of a bit of a never ending one as well, with the tech stack. I know, we just changed our core CRM a bit over 12 months ago, and not dissimilar to what you were saying that it’s like, you’ve got to do all that work to get it happening. But then once you do, it’s like, okay, well, now, now what and this, so some so much potential out there. But also, you know, there’s so much time that goes into doing it and, you know, trying to figure out a way that works for all the people in the business, all the clients and the outcomes that you want as well.

Chris Morcom
I think the thing for us was that we like we’ve moved to Salesforce as the CRM, for example. And that is one of the most powerful tools like it’s, there’s so much to it, and you can’t begin to know it all right from the very start. And it’s only through, as you sort of get more comfortable and you start to look at the data points, you’ve got that you can build together amazing dashboards to help manage your clients more efficiently. And, you know, we’re just talking last week about new depth sports for the for the advice team. And, you know, making sure that the key information is just at your fingertips all the time. And that that’s just, you know, it’s just a whole other way, way. It’s so mailable

Ben Nash
absolutely, yeah, it’s unlimited. In fact, it’s borderline overwhelming how much he can, but the challenge is like, what’s going to move the dial the most? And, you know, what can what can we roll out? Or what’s the right thing to roll out next? So I feel you on that one? Chris, my last question for you is if you could you’ve been in your business 25 years, if you could go back to your day one self and, and do one thing differently, what would it be?

Chris Morcom
Don’t be as tentative. I probably underestimated the value that I bring to people. What the reason I love what I do, and the reason I keep doing it is because I like to help people. And financial planning is a wonderful juncture of the business side of stuff, which I enjoy, I enjoy, you know, the, the financial metrics and all that that’s, that’s, that’s interesting, and you know, but just doing that, without having any impact on someone would be boring than the other. And the other side of the coin is just helping people but not the financial stuff. And I and that’s what we’re wife does, as a financial counselor, and hats off to financial counselors, i There’s no way I could do that either. Because it’s, it’s just all all consuming, but you it’s just, it’s pretty hard work. So we’re really, really, really lucky as financial planners is that we get to marry the two. And we get to utilize our skills to get people in a better situation and help them and you know, reach their goals and dreams. And for me, that’s there’s nothing better. And so I’m probably going off on tangent here.

Ben Nash
So itself more earlier, so you can do more. Yeah, so

Chris Morcom
yeah, so just backing myself earlier. So being more confident in my skills and abilities, and perhaps not being as shy about, you know, what we can do for people because I personally use the word we because there’s no way I can do it all it’s we’ve got a whole team of people that mean we can do what we can do. And I think that’s that that’s that’s the really empowering part of it all.

Ben Nash
I love it. I think it’s it’s really easy when you sometimes get too close to it that you’re focused on are we’re helping people with this strategy or this technical piece. But sometimes when you take a step back and go what is the value and what are we doing? Yes, you see that? You know, it does change people’s lives. And I know that for me as an advisor. I feel privileged to do that every day.

Chris Morcom
We’ve all got it every every advisor who’s been doing for five years plus knows, has a story in their back pocket of a particular situation where they know that the individual or family would have just been in absolute mess without the advisors help and assistance. And I just think that that’s the sort of thing that you as advisors need as advisors, we need to make sure that we’re talking about that value as are with each other and with, I think, with the greater public, because that’s what will drive people to seek out advice. Because there’s going to be fee pressure, people are going to talk about fees all the time. But unless as a profession, we’re talking to people about the good we do, no one will actually hear about it, or only hear the bad news stories.

Ben Nash
That’s right, yeah. And pay the opportunity cost of not doing all the things and it’s it’s funny, obviously, we are conflicted when you talk to someone about getting advice that we want them to get advice, because they’re going to be client and you know, there’s a commercial outcome attached to that for us. But the end of the day, we also know that in the absence of advice, it’s like they’re gonna keep making the same mistakes and you know, paying the price that comes with that. So yeah, I think the more we can highlight that stuff, the the more confidence people get in advice, and, you know, we’re all better for it.

Chris Morcom
Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more.

Ben Nash
Chris, thank you so much Mater. Really appreciate you sharing your story and insights. So much so so I’ve got a beige notes here. So mate, I really appreciate it.

Chris Morcom
It’s been happy to be part of this and thanks for the opportunity to have a chat.

Ben Nash
Cheers guys. We’ll catch you next time.