#363 Carlii Lyon – Transcript

Jess Brady
This week, I speak with personal branding expert, Carlii Lyon. She has worked with some huge names. Huge, but I wanted to bring it back to little all of us and think about how can we make sure that in 2023 because I think we’re probably all now planning for 2023 We’ve got strategy and a clear plan to show up authentically, not only in our office, but online as well. She’s gonna miss bust, all of the excuses people use to not have a strategy around personal brand. And I’m telling you, I think I have used every one of them. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Hi, Carlii.

Carlii Lyon
How are you Jess?

Jess Brady
I’m so good. And I’m very, very excited for today’s chat. I think this is such a nice time of year. I don’t know I have learned years ago that business planning should be done November December at the very latest for the year ahead. And so I am running around curating my thoughts about what I want to achieve in the next 12 months in 2023. And I thought getting someone like you on would be really valuable to the financial advice community that is x y. Because no doubt what you do might be very aligned to what some people are looking to do within 2023. So for people that don’t know about you, I would love to start today’s conversation by learning a little bit more about who you are, and your story, because it’s cool.

Carlii Lyon
Thank you. Thank you. Well, I mean, gosh, where do I start? I’ll give you the abridged version. So that relates really, to what I’m doing today. So I like to always start by saying I am a high school dropout, or more Honestly, I was kicked out of school. So left school, very young. spent many years partying decided that wasn’t the life I wanted to lead. I know you’re you’re probably sitting there going, oh god, she’s really going all the way back.

Jess Brady
No, it’s right. Do please, J perfect.

Carlii Lyon
But then what happened was woke up one morning had a cigarette for breakfast and thought, Wait, this isn’t exactly how I want my life to look. And ended up long story short, living at a very exclusive health retreat for two months and ended up at the end of those two months as an aspiring health and wellness guru. So no one wanted to invite me to dinner parties because I was preaching about what you should eat or what exercise you should do. And when I came back, I was really clear that I wanted to be in the health and wellness space, but I didn’t know how at that point I was I was just a young lad Laddus and through a whole series of synchronicities. I had a gentleman who today’s one of my mentors say to me, I think you’d be great in PR. So that was the beginning of my PR career. I was 20 I went to college, started studying PR had my first three clients in the first six months of my college studies and then launched my own PR consultancy and what started out as just a desk desire to spread the word around health and wellness then turned into a much bigger picture of representing high profile individuals with all varied backgrounds, all different stories, all different purposes, but getting their story out into the world. So I did that for well over a decade, went on extended maternity leave and realized I had never done anything to build my own personal brand, which a lot of people discover a junction in their life where they’re going through change. And that has led me now to be out in the world. It’s been over four years, I consult and coach and speak about personal branding. I’m very passionate about the topic, I think, now more than ever, we can become so visible and use our voices for good. So that’s what I’m doing today. Wonderful.

Jess Brady
Wonderful, because I think in our world, we need to we need to mythbuster upfront, I think there’s a lot of people that are going to listen to this podcast and go. I don’t need any strategic planning around my personal brand. Because I’m a good person. Yeah. And I do a good job. Yeah. And that will continue to bode well into the future. Yeah. What do you say to people that think like that,

Carlii Lyon
what I would say to a person that thinks like that is there’s no doubt that being competent at what you do, and doing a good job is important. But what a lot of people don’t recognize is that their influence and brand is very much tied to their position. And so what happens, which was certainly the case for me is I have developed over the years a lot of positional influence, which whilst I was in the role I was in was wonderful, it would open doors for me, it would help create relationships, word of mouth, etc, etc. But then when I went on extended maternity leave, and for other people that might be selling their business changing their role becoming redundant, it might be a whole number of reasons that has led to them needing to leave the role they’re in, and then they go, oh, all of that influence that they have that ability to open doors, the relationships, even that they had, was based on a position rather than the personal relationships and personal influence. And it is a very clear distinction. And I’ve had a lot of clients, some who have held very high roles, discover that the hard way as I did, where I’m from, went from one minute everyone wanting to know me, everyone wanting to connect everyone wanting to do all of these things for me to the next minute. But as I say crickets chirping, because I wasn’t in the position anymore.

Jess Brady
I think this is very true in my world, also around the company that you work for. So people are scared to build, or don’t bother maybe to build a personal brand because they think, well, the company that I worked for was very reputable, or the organization that I work for is well known and well credentialed, and they sort of us that they ride the coattails of the brand is that common?

Carlii Lyon
Very, very, very common. And I especially in today’s marketplace, where there’s so much rapid change. I have heard so many horror stories of individuals and very intelligent executives doing that. And as a result, when they even politely get their marching orders, because the company’s restructured and they need to change I have one client in particular who’s just popping to mind 15 years at the same brand big iconic international brand and did exactly what you just said, just always sat on and relied upon the credibility and the power of the brand she was working for. Then found herself no longer there and scrambling. Because like I said she and and she was definitely a person where she had a lot of positional influence. But the minute that was taken away, she didn’t have that person. And of course, there was still some, but not necessarily built in a strategic and sustainable way.

Jess Brady
I guess the scary thing with stories like that is you might think that you have cultivated a brand that sits behind you know, a bigger identity. Yeah. But I guess you don’t really test that until something like the story you just said happens. Yeah. And then unfortunately, you might realize, Oh, dear, what I thought versus what is real are quite different. And that’s really hard. I would imagine to then build that back because of a whole number of reasons. 100% Yeah, that It’s just occurred to me that that would be a really short time to figure out. I didn’t do a very good job of this personal branding thing. In fact, I did a really great job of talking about the company, right? Really well, yes. And now who am I? And I’m floating in the middle of the ocean. Yeah. And I’ve got a bit of an identity crisis that I need to solve.

Carlii Lyon
Absolutely. And look, I think that a lot of it. And I think I know a lot of it is generational as well, I, you know, anyone over 40, myself included, we didn’t come up through our careers, being told that this was an important component. I had one gentleman who, I hope you don’t mind me swearing on this podcast, but he,

Jess Brady
I do I do regularly well.

Carlii Lyon
So he was a very well liked journalist at the Australian Financial Review. And we were sitting down having a coffee, and I was telling him about this new direction that I was going in, and, you know, personal branding and coaching and speaking. And he said to me, you know, Carly, and he was a little bit older, he is a little bit older than me, it’s in his 50s. And he said, you know, we grew up being told, you put your head down your Bama, you work hard. And that’s how you’re gonna get somewhere. And I was sitting there thinking, Oh, my god, how am I gonna argue is a journalist, funny story and financial view, this could be a very long conversation. And before he even had to say anything, he just said, What a load of shit that was. And I think that speaks volumes to what we’re talking about here is, yes, putting your head down and doing the work is important. But also periodically, you know, putting your head up and going, who can see me right now, who knows me right now? And are they the people that I want to be seeing and hearing me? So that, you know, we can cultivate and continue conversations and connections, etc.

Jess Brady
So for all of us, who are not overly schooled in this area, let’s start from real basics.

Unknown Speaker
Yep. What

Jess Brady
is a personal brand.

Carlii Lyon
So my definition, so I’ll start there is that a personal brand, is ultimately the way a person is recognized and remembered, that’s really what we’re trying to shape. It’s that the perception of who you are, what you do. So how you’re recognized or remembered. What that entails, is how you bring together all of your unique qualities, skills, values, image, you know, all of who you are, how you package that up, in a way to shape how you are recognized and remembered, what a lot of people do is they just focus on, and think about personal branding, in terms of their LinkedIn profile. And it’s all about what they do. So they focus on really communicating, this is what I do. This is what my role entails. And it’s completely lacking of any personality, and a storytelling, you know, anything that really lets another person get a sense of who you are, what you value, your unique style, how you do the things you do in only the way you do them. You know, all of these things that we understand when we’re building relationships in the physical dimension. You know, when we sit down with clients, as I’m sure Jesse would know, when you’re talking to a client about, you know, offering financial advice. You don’t just sit in and jump into it, you want to get to know the client, what did they values what were you know, what do they do in their life? What do they love, you know, when you’re going through that journey of building a relationship, that’s where we start as humans, we’re looking for that connection point. But then what happens when it comes to communicating that to a broader market, we tend to freeze up and just go, this is what I do, and not really allow people into who we are. You talk a

Jess Brady
little bit about the storytelling piece and actually sharing your journey and your past. I thought that was really interesting. It’s taken me a long time to become brave enough to share some things about me, for a few reasons. I’ve never thought they were relevant. Some of them were a bit embarrassing, or you know, they weren’t things that I necessarily thought I wanted to share with the world.

Unknown Speaker
But also I felt a little bit narcissistic, like, I was like,

Jess Brady
why would anyone want to know this stuff about Got me? Am I just like becoming selfish? Is this an E? Is this my ego trying to feed my neck? But actually no, you advocate for people needing to learn who you are to connect with you. Yeah, have I read that correctly?

Carlii Lyon
100%. And, you know, I’ll put it back to you two ways. When you’re getting to know even, let’s say, on the level of a client relationship, are you open to sharing, you know, what you did on the weekend, maybe a hobby where you traveled to, you know, you’re selective with what you’re sharing in person, and you’re sharing intuitively. And even on a subconscious level, you’re sharing that information to create connection. So they are getting a sense of liking, knowing trusting. Now, I want to make this really clear. Yes. And as much as I advocate for sharing storytelling, I am not sitting here saying, You need to expose all areas of your life, you need to go to the deepest, darkest corners of who you are as a person. And that’s what a personal brand is. And a lot of people get caught in this idea of, oh, but you know, I want to be authentic. And they struggle with this idea, because who they authentically are at work with clients is not necessarily who they authentically are at home with family, or who they authentically are in a at a party with friends. And this is where in psychology, they call this the context principle. It’s about remaining authentic to who you are in a particular context. And when it comes to personal branding, you’re essentially deciding, or what part of me what facet, what dimension Am I putting out and on show, I don’t believe that every single part of you should be on show, there are parts of you that should remain sacred. And it’s only for the people who get to see Jess at home with family, or get to see Jess in a party. I am a really firm believer of that. So you said something that’s so key. When it comes to storytelling, actually asking yourself, well, how is this relevant to the reader? What are they going to get from this is this as a lesson that you learned that could be helpful is sharing vulnerably allowing somebody else to feel a sense of not being alone in their struggles, and you know, helping them get through it? That’s why you’re sharing. It’s not just, Hey, look at me, this is what I did, because that’s where I think the narcissism might come in. But if you think about it, just when you’re on social media as an example, because this is a lot of where we’re connecting with people these days. Do you like reading other people’s stories? Of course. And of

Jess Brady
course, before I front, you know, and obviously, given the world that we are in, we have conversations that these people may not have had with their bestest, bestest friend. Yeah, so we are privy to really private sensitive pieces of information. Yeah. And so it makes complete sense that someone, even if they’ve been referred, what I often hear from people is, oh, you you work with my friend, or you work with my colleague, or you work with my cousin. And I’ve said great things. And then, because I think this is an important part, I went online, and I read about you when I saw you, and you resonated with me, because of course, if I’m going to share my deepest, darkest things, yeah. I want to make sure that I’m the right person. You’re the right person for me to do that with. So yes, and it makes so much sense. I think, for me, it’s just been a big barrier. I’m going to also call out I worked for Macquarie Bank for several years. Hello, I loved working there. Yeah. I was actively taught to not put personal stories and everything that we needed to put out into the world. Yeah, and I totally get it with really big companies. Yes, you need to be very careful about what people are putting online because people can do really odd things. Yeah, but that’s taken me years to get to a point where now I feel like actually Cali in the last three months, I basically decided I can’t keep avoiding this I need to get better at this and I have shared some vulnerable stories in the hope that it helps people in the hope that people feel less alone. And the number of people that have reached back out to me and privately messaged me is astonishing how

Unknown Speaker
silly that I didn’t do

Carlii Lyon
it. You didn’t do it earlier. Exactly. And it’s addictive as well because you you know to connect with other people like really connect and and I think there’s something magical about owning your story and sharing I think there’s something really magical I think that it’s an Not only a benefit and a gift to those who encounter it and feel that sense of connection from you. But it’s also sending a very clear message to you, and your subconscious that your story is a value and it does matter. And I believe that is a building block a very important building block in self belief, and, you know, healthy everything.

Jess Brady
Totally because imposter syndrome is real. And sometimes I still put things out and think, yes, is this gonna? Is this gonna land how I want it to land? Yeah. And I think fear holds us back from presenting the personal brand that we might want to because we’re scared that it’s not going to land, right?

Carlii Lyon
Yes, yeah, we

Unknown Speaker
do about that.

Carlii Lyon
We’re totally afraid of rejection. we’re social creatures. And the idea of being ostracized for who we are, is, is terribly frightening. But the reality is, if we hide out of the fear of not being accepted, then we’re actually not accepting ourselves, which I could think of nothing worse. And you’re not allowing yourself to be exposed to actually attracting the right people, places and opportunities into your life that are actually aligned with who you are. So yes, there is that stepping into the void, and there that fear of doing so. But I think the payoffs are worth it. Because ultimately, the thing that you’re afraid of being rejected by the people that aren’t really your people means that you’ll be accepted and attract the people that actually are your people. And there’s no avoiding that. There is absolutely I always say to, to all my clients, in every workshop I’ve delivered, the more you put yourself out there, the more rejection criticism, and negative feedback you’ll get. And I don’t say that to scare people off. I say it to be realistic. Because what happens is people go, I’m putting myself out there, oh, my God, I’ve got a negative comment. And of course, they can have 20 positive comments and one negative and then they go, Oh, maybe I need to change that. Because I’ve got a negative comment. But to me, and I can say this having represented high profile individuals who, you know, we’re getting a lot of exposure with big audiences. No matter who you are, you are going to get criticism and criticism is generally a sign that you’re playing a bigger game. So it’s a good thing that you’re getting it if you’re only getting compliments. It’s a small, you’re playing a small game. Hmm,

Jess Brady
that is a very good insight. I’m hearing don’t wait till we feel ready. The fear and the rejection thing is not going anywhere. We just got to park that to one side. Go anyway. And when we start getting negative stuff, you know that you’ve hit the spot? Not for everyone. You’re not

Carlii Lyon
sure? Exactly. I read somewhere. I can’t even remember where I read it. But even and I was only just the other day listening to a podcast, Oprah was talking to Elizabeth lessor. And she was talking about when she sold or or left the Oprah show and then created this new the own network. And she was talking about all the critics that she got. And now this is Oprah. Like you think of Oprah as being one of the most loved people in the world. But she’s got her critics people don’t like her. You know, it’s, it doesn’t matter who you are. Even Mother Teresa had her critics. So if you’re, if you see that as a sign, you’re doing the wrong thing, then you’re always going to be a prisoner to that. What do you do if you are not a naturally confident and or extroverted person? Because I would imagine for many of us, I think I am technically actually an introvert because I get energy from being alone. But I’m a confident person. And so I can sometimes just be like, oh, I’ll just do it. Yeah, figure it out later. But there would be a lot of people that are more introverted and don’t feel the same as me how the introverts build personal brands. So I am an introvert at 100% introverted, and I have written a guide about this, which is on my website, because it saddens me to think and I was one of these people that had automatically assumed, given I’m an introvert, and I don’t like being the center of attention. I don’t like being the one on stage. I don’t like being the one that’s being interviewed or sharing my thoughts online. Then obviously, I’m just meant to be behind the scenes. And that is a very unfortunate line of thinking because we are then missing out on On a lot of talents, insights, stories experiences, from effectively, I don’t know what the stats are, but I would imagine it’s a big part of the population consider themselves introverted. And I think what Susan Cain has done with her book quiet has been phenomenal, because suddenly introverts are going, oh, yeah, I’m an introvert. And it’s almost trendy to be an introvert and to really own your introversion. So there are two things here. Firstly, owning the fact you’re an introvert, but not using that as an excuse is important. So that means for example, things like when I do an interview like this, I know I’m going to need to go for a walk after because I need to come back to myself. Or if I do a big workshop, or a big presentation, I know that the next day, I’m wiped, like, I can’t do meetings, I can’t speak, I’ve been situations where I’ve done a big talk, and I literally can’t speak, I almost miss my plane that kind of know, because it takes so much out of me to do that. But if you know that, then you can plan and schedule around it. So that’s the first thing. But secondly, if you follow the work of Dr. Ross Harris, who talks about confidence, he always says that the feelings of confidence only come after the action of confidence, which to me is my mantra. So if ever I’m feeling oh my god, I don’t feel ready. I’m not confident enough to do this. I always come back to this, that the thought that I’ll feel confident by just preparing mentally or getting into the zone is absolute BS, you actually have to do the thing before you will feel confident. And there’s no out there’s no going around that to your point

Jess Brady
before and like if you are confident, and you are an introverted person, but you’ve sort of gathered that up, it could be that you’re playing very small. It could be that you’ve not pushed yourself because comfort feels so much nicer than being brave and doing something that’s scary. Yeah, I guess we have to hold space to be honest and say, Am I doing something as brave as I could? Could I be doing this differently? Am I trying to just keep myself within my comfort zone? Because it feels good for me, I worked for a heck of a long time. Yeah. Even though the world has fundamentally changed that we play

Carlii Lyon
fundamentally changed. And there is, you can obviously clearly hear Jess, I read a lot of books. And I know you do too. So that’s great. But there’s a book, which I highly recommend is called authentic gravitas by a lady by the name of Dr. Rebecca Newton, who’s actually Australian, but she’s a professor at the London School of Economics, okay. And she always she talks about this idea of authenticity, where it becomes powerful is when you are authentic to your intentions. And the impact you want to make. Where we get caught is thinking of being authentic. That’s just who I am. That’s how I’ve always done it. That’s who I’ve always been on LinkedIn. No, that’s just not me. On social media, no, no, no, that’s, that’s just not me. I’m not like that. But then when you ask yourself the question, well, is remaining authentic to that idea? Is that actually allowing you to fulfill your intention and the impact you want to make? And if the answer is no, then you need to change your behaviors. Because you’re remaining authentic to a part of you or a version of yourself, that’s not actually allowing you to go to where you want to go. You know, I’m, I’m digesting, digesting that one marinate in that one. Because I think, for me, when I read that, I was like, Yes, I hear clients say to me, and whether it’s at a workshop, or I’m speaking, or my one on one coach, coaching clients, I’m just not like that. And I was like that, too. You know, when I was at that fork in the road of what’s my next career move? I’m the quiet one. I’m behind the scenes, but it means that by staying behind the scenes, I’m not exposing myself to potential opportunities and the next stage in my career, etc, etc. And it wasn’t working for me anymore to be that person.

Jess Brady
Do you know I just want to say that sometimes people contact me because I do a lot of public speaking. And sometimes people say to me, Oh, I wish I could public speak. You know, I wish I could do that or whatever. I’m here to tell you that I get scared. Still. Yeah, every time that I do it. It doesn’t go away for me. Yeah, I have put systems and practices in place. I’ve done a lot of training you Do I remind myself that feeling uncomfortable is part of the journey and that I would be happy with myself if I didn’t try it. But like, I just want to miss busted in case anyone sits here thinks. Yeah, but like you do all this speaking you can get up on stage I’m like, Yeah, but I am often tariff.

Carlii Lyon
Most people Ah, yeah, people are terrified on stage. Yeah. But we wouldn’t ever imagine that because we automatically assume that those people who are onstage in the spotlight, obviously confident. And that’s that’s not not necessarily the case at all. I also shared the story when I did a live television interview for the first time. First of all, when I pitched to do the interview, I when I sent the email to the producer, I ran downstairs to my husband, and I was crying. And he was like, Honey, what’s wrong? And I was like, oh, pitch to do this TV interview. And he’s like, yeah, and and I was like, Well, what if they say yes, because there’s so far outside of my comfort zone. Then they said, Yes. And I went and did the interview. And I did the interview. And then I went outside into my car and cried like a baby again, because I was so far outside of my comfort zone, it felt so foreign. But if you had watched the interview, you would have assumed Oh, she’s confident she knows what she’s doing. So yeah, I like myth busting as well, just because, and especially when it comes to introverts, and why I’m so passionate about sharing the fact I am an introvert is because that doesn’t that’s not an excuse.

Jess Brady
Totally. I think that’s a wonderful thing to make sure people are not using to shield yes themselves from us. Because in Australia, we are not moving the dial on how many people are getting financial advice. There are not enough advisors, but we aren’t really help. You know, I think it’s too intense. But it’s been too intense for like a decade. And so I wonder if having the opportunity for people to learn more about advisors learn more about who we are, what we stand for what we’re about, that we’re humans, that we’re not scary and intimidating, that we’re really nice, mostly kind people. I wonder if that will really help people to resonate and go, Oh, I thought they were going to be these actuarial style, no offense, people who are all numbers, but actually know, most financial advisors. They’re really good EQ. And so helping people learn that and reduce those barriers, I think is just going to help more people get advice, which we know leads to such better life outcomes for people. Well, okay, you have built, you’ve built so many good resources, by the way, I’ve read them and you’ve got like a workbooks. Like, literally, if you are sitting here going, this is great. But like what do I do, I need you to know that Carly has built like brand identity guides, introvert guides, where you literally have a workbook where she asks good, amazing questions, and you have to sit and write. Thank you, honestly, thank you, because I find learning about this stuff really great. But then we want to know, how do we take this into practical tangible action? You have clearly solved that. But one of the things I want to talk about is this concept of the three C’s. So content, consistency and conversations. Yeah. Can we do a bit of a deep dive? So if we’re like, okay, fine, fine. I will become braver and I will try this. Yeah, this isn’t sort of your recipe for success. This is your recipe for success, this sort of three seat model. Can we talk a little bit about if you’re trying for the very first time to get this right? What should people think? Let’s focus on content first? Yeah. What are the things that we need to think about if we’re going to build our brand identity,

Carlii Lyon
specifically around content? And you’re okay, perfect. So firstly, it’s about sitting down and really thinking about, okay, and there’s a beautiful framework, actually, it’s a Japanese word called iki. Guy. Have you heard of that? Yes, with the Venn diagram, yeah, the Venn diagram, which is kind of hard to explain on a podcast. But if you can imagine there’s four circles. And then they’re all overlapping. And ikigai is all about your calling in life. And I also like to use them as well, at the intersection of these four circles is also your personal brand. And I’ll give you some real life examples in a second. So the four questions are, what are you really good at? What do you love to do? What problem are you solving and for whom? And what can you be paid for now or in the future? Right? And at the intersection of those 40 You literally would write down okay, what am I really good at? And is there a particular part of financial advice that I’m really really good at on I’m really, really passionate about. Okay, well What do I love to do? Now this might be, you know, what do you love to do in your career and as a financial advisor, but it could also be, I love dancing, and I love traveling, I love wine, right? Just ride it out, don’t edit yourself, then you go to what can I be paid for now or in the future, which is obviously in the case of most of the listeners today, it’s financial advising. And then who is the problem you’re solving. And so then at the intersection of that is not only your unique personal brand, but where we can start to build out your content pillars. So let me give you a real life example of this, how this would be put into play. So I was doing a talk for based off naevia. And a lady came up to me at the end of the talk, and she was like, you know, I’m really confused about this whole personal branding thing, because I feel like I’ve got a split personality, which I hear a lot people compartmentalize their life, right? Okay. And when it comes to personal branding, that’s not the right way to do it. But here we are. So she said, I love what I do in my corporate role. And she was a training manager. And she said, and then outside of that, I love dance. I’m a choreographer, and I’m equally passionate about both. And when it comes to personal branding, I feel like I have to be two different people on different platforms. And I said, Okay, so let’s look at the intersection between these two worlds, you think they need to be compartmentalized? I said, What’s the commonality between the training and the work that you do? And the dance choreography? And she said, I’m not sure it doesn’t make sense. And I said, Okay, well, when you’re training, are you telling people certain steps so that they can get to the same outcome all in the same way? Yes. And when you’re doing choreography? Are you teaching people certain steps that yeah, and you’re like, oh, yeah, I get it. So all of a sudden, there’s some really unique analogies. There’s some really unique storytelling, there’s a way for her to link her narrative that’s really unique to her. So all of a sudden, we’re learning, okay, she’s really competent and passionate about training. So there would be a content pillar there. But she’s also really great at dance choreography. And perhaps there’s a way to bring the two together in a storytelling method, so that people go, Oh, wow, I get it. And it’s still speaking to her what she’s wanting to do.

Jess Brady
This concept of content pillars is new to me, I have learned that I have accidentally created content colors, which is funny. But actually, now that I have gone down this interesting rabbit hole, there’s a lot of resources online that will help you understand your content pillars. Yeah. And then creating a strategic plan of posting and showing up within those content pillars so that you’re reinforcing your message. I mean, this is clever. Yes, very clever. And it takes time, right?

Carlii Lyon
It takes time. Yes. And I believe it’s something that will be constantly evolving, because you might go down one direction, and then that direction leads you, you know, through real time feedback from the marketplace, all of a sudden, you see that your audience is asking a specific question, and it allows you to go deeper into another specific area, which then might become your area of specialty. Yeah. So it, it does take time, and it’s it’s constantly evolving.

Jess Brady
And we probably just need to mythbuster that when you do all of this beautiful content, you get your content pillars, and you stop doing the thing and showing up, you have to be consistent. Yes. Right. Is there a formula of like, what does consistency mean in the concept of a personal brand,

Carlii Lyon
that step of first identifying what your content pillars are is key. So really knowing Okay, so for me as an example, my content pillar is personal branding, I everything if you go through my LinkedIn, all of my articles, all of my posts, everything on my website, it all it’s goes into one main content, pillar of personal branding. That’s for me, I have a client who’s in leadership. And he he’s one of his content pillars is the company and what the company stands for. The other is wellness, because his whole business philosophy and leadership philosophy is founded on the idea that when we are well, we do better work. So he has two content pillars, the what the act of the company actually does, and then this idea of wellness. So once you’ve identified them, yes, the strategy part is really easy because you’ve got this new benchmark and litmus test to go, okay, is this story related to my content pillar? And then you will know or is this story how can I make this story related to my Content pillar, which then means you’re not jumping around all the time. And having people question, what does she actually do? Or what is he really good at? Or because you’re not jumping around this all confusing? It would be like when you read a Vogue magazine, Jess, you wouldn’t expect to see a story that belongs in National Geographic.

Jess Brady
I’d much prefer to read natural geographic, okay. I know exactly what you mean. So once you’ve done that, because I think you can fall in the trap of like, I’m too busy. I’m too busy to post. I’m too busy. And So lo and behold, you post once every quarter, few months, and you want to cultivate a Yeah. An easily identifiable brand. Yeah, I would imagine that you would say, No, that’s not enough. Is there any thoughts or tips for how consistently we need to be doing this?

Carlii Lyon
It really depends on a few things. So what are you using social media for? So if social media, if you are wanting to have more of a passive approach to social media, what I mean by that is, you said earlier in the call, having that place where someone can just come and look you up, then that’s a more passive approach to social media, it means that you’ve curated your platforms in a way, that means when someone comes and looks you up, you’re telling the story, and you’re projecting the image that you want, in which case that more ad hoc, whenever you want to say something approach is fine, because you’re only using it as a place for them to come and look you up. If you’re using social media, as lead generation, you’re using it as a place to create a community, then absolutely, just showing up ad hoc is not going to work. You need to have a systematic approach so that people can start to depend on you know, we’re so habitual, we don’t even realize how much how habitual we really are. So they want to know that every week, you’re going to be showing up. It’s like you, Jess, I don’t know how many interviews you post a week. But your audience will know, Hey, Jess, there’ll be a new interview this week, or there might be two new interviews this week. Yeah. If you just posted whenever you felt like it, then it’s very hard for the audience to get involved in that. And for you to create a community, how much you post. So let’s come back to social media, it actually depends on the platform. So a platform like Instagram is very, very hungry. And it’s a very, very busy platform. So if you post something, it’s probably only going to last in people’s feeds for 24 hours, because there’s so much there, tweet out. Again, it’s very busy. And you need to be on it quite a lot for you to build that traction. What I love about LinkedIn, and especially why it’s a platform that I thrive on, and it’s definitely the strongest one for me, is I can post something, and three weeks later, it’s still making the rounds, because of a community of I believe they say it’s 700 million people, only 3% of people are actually posting what Yeah, it’s a very, very small percentage that actually posting. So there’s a lot of people on there. And I wouldn’t say that 700 700 million people are actually active on there. But let’s say even half of that it’s still a very small percentage. So the amount of eyeballs you can potentially get, because it’s when you’re not competing with as many people is quite phenomenal. I have and and this is why there I’ve had clients say to me, oh yeah, I go on LinkedIn. But I never post and I never comment because I don’t want people to see what I’m doing on there. So you have a lot of voyeuristic behavior on LinkedIn. So really interesting. I could spend hours talking about LinkedIn, because I just think, right now it is the most exciting place to be. Some people say to

Jess Brady
me, because I work with younger people. Although we don’t do LinkedIn, because we work with young professionals, and I’m here to tell you that LinkedIn for us in our world has been underrated, really underrated. And people often say to me, or have said to me in the past, you’re always on LinkedIn. And I’m like, No, I am not always on LinkedIn apart from my hiatus. When I went on my mini retirement this year. I was posting once a week. Yeah. That was it. But it was this. It was this belief that people will like she’s always on there. I’m like, Isn’t that fascinating that I’m actually not on there a lot. Yeah, but it’s the consistency. Yeah,

Carlii Lyon
exactly. And because you If there’s not as much competition for space, so potentially they’re seeing every single post that because as you would know, if you post on Instagram, let’s say you have 1000 followers, I don’t know how many you have. But a very small percentage of those people actually see your post if you’re not paying to play. So it’s not like an email database where you send it out to 1000 people and 1000 people will get it, whether it goes to their junk mail or not, I don’t know. But it still gets out to 1000 people on social media, you’re only ever getting out to a small percentage of your audience, unless, like I said, you’re boosting your posts and doing things like that. So with LinkedIn, because there’s just not as much happening in terms of content creation, and it is changing, people are starting to get a you know, starting to become aware of it, you will find that people going, Wow, you’re so busy, aren’t you? I’ve seen you you’ve been doing so much. And you’re like what I had the quietest week ever last week. But they do have this perception of you being out there doing all these things, because they’re seeing you regularly.

Jess Brady
Amazing. Yeah, I’m conscious of time. Because I think this is a fascinating area. It’s an area that I pushed on to the important but not urgent list. Yeah, for a long time. And I winged it is probably how I would politely describe my approach to brand. But if you can leave us before we get into rapid fire questions with anything else, I mean, you’ve provided some amazing insights. And some, I’m gonna call them hard truths for us to take from today’s chat. But is there anything else that you want us to really understand about personal brands, before we wrap up today’s call,

Carlii Lyon
I love that you just admitted that you wind it in the beginning. And you know what that would lead me to say, Good, I would encourage people to wing it in the beginning. Because what that will do is allow you the space and time to experiment. And really get a sense of practicing and asking yourself, Is this me? Is this the message I want to say? Is this how I want to present myself and knowing that you’ve got, you know, a much smaller audience to begin with. So you’re not having as many there’s no expectation, there’s not as many people looking at you like now is the time to experiment, right at the beginning is the time to experiment. There’s this perception of, you know, it’s easier for the people who’ve got big audiences that is so incorrect, it’s actually more pressure, the bigger the audience, the bigger the expectation. So it has more pressure to serve, and to be consistent in the way that the audience wants you to be, which is not always a great thing for those people who are high profile because they feel like Will Smith said on his 50th birthday, he had the realization that he didn’t have to always be that Will Smith, by key wanted to be whoever he wanted to be. But he had kept himself prisoner in one way because the audience expected him to be that way. I mean, Will Smith probably not the best example based on his recent behavior? But don’t slap people in public?

Jess Brady
Know, Brian, listen. But I know what you mean, you know, I’ve never really thought about that. But you’re right. Like, once you have built a community that want to learn from you that wants you to show up, you kind of have to build things that are going to be learned from him show up.

Carlii Lyon
Yep, exactly. So experiment winging it in the beginning, don’t, you know, don’t get fall into the trap of perfection, your best idea is probably out there. What matters is you just come back to the question of, and I know it’s easier said than done. But come back to the question of what’s the story? I’m wanting to tell? What’s the image I’m wanting to protect? And who do I ultimately want to be like, where am I actually going, you want the vision of your future self to ultimately guide you in your personal branding decisions of today, because it’s not a short term activity. It’s a long term mindset, you’re investing your time and energy and resources into something that isn’t going to have a direct return on investment. But it’s about building the network, building the relationships, building the audience in the community that will ultimately benefit you in the long run.

Jess Brady
We talk so much in our world about about the concept of compounding, and I can see exactly what you’re saying, over time, this cumulates and compounds and turns into something really beautiful and special. Yes. Thank you so much quickly. I think everyone as an action item before the year is out, should take the workbooks off the website, print them and physically do them. I am creating some accountability to me to do that. If people want to learn more about you and the great work that you do, how can they find you?

Carlii Lyon
I’m definitely on LinkedIn. please connect with me on LinkedIn. And my website, Carlii lyon.com.

Jess Brady
Wonderful. I’m going to add that in the show notes as well. Before we wrap up today’s chat. How do you feel about some rapid fire questions?

Carlii Lyon
Go ahead. I’m ready for it?

Jess Brady
Thank you for being super enthusiastic. I’d like to know one thing that you do to look after your mental health

Carlii Lyon
walk in nature. Those are four go to for me,

Jess Brady
what is a piece of advice that you would give to younger Carlii?

Carlii Lyon
The feelings of confidence will only come after the actions of confidence because waiting to feel ready. Confident is a big fat illusion. It never happens. And it’s not even worth aiming for it. Because it’s not it’s not real.

Jess Brady
What a beautiful lesson to all of us. Yeah. Do you have something that’s on your bucket list that you can share?

Carlii Lyon
My bucket list is overflowing with so many things. And for me, I am a avid scuba diver. So if I could live underwater, I would be a murmur. And there I’m in there made. Yeah. So there my bucket list is full of of locations and my dream board which is right next to me full of places I want to dive so that that’s definitely on my bucket list.

Jess Brady
Oh, that’s so cool. Yeah. Last question. I know you’ve got a little bit of pressure about this. I would love for you to give us a recommendation for a book for my fake book club.

Carlii Lyon
I really do feel pressure around this question because I have to tell you, I have so many amazing books that I absolutely love. But I did mention authentic gravitas by Dr. Rebecca Newman, I would highly recommend that. And then for all of those introverts, sorry, Jess, I know I’m breaking the rules. But there is one book that I think for the introverts out there who, you know, maybe financial advisors, there might be a I’m not sure Jess, I don’t know if they’re they skew introvert or extrovert or there’s definitely a I would go for The Alter Ego effect by Todd Herman.

Jess Brady
The Alter Ego effect by Todd Herman.

Carlii Lyon
Really impactful book.

Jess Brady
Carly, I want to say a ginormous thank you so much for today’s conversation, and I have learned a lot you’ve given me many tools and ideas and no doubt the community as well around how to show up authentically and have a strategy around our personal brand. So thank you so much for being today’s guest.

Carlii Lyon
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.