#341 Deepa Surti Part #2 – Transcript

Jess Brady
Deepa. Hi, welcome back.

Deepa Surti
Thank you. Thanks for having me back.

Jess Brady
I am so excited to do today’s conversation. So this is almost part of like a two part miniseries that we sort of made up really, because I know that you know, all things recruiting. And so we spent a whole episode on looking at it from someone who’s hiring lens. But today, we’re gonna focus a lot more on what candidates should think about and know when it comes to the financial services market. So if you are thinking about moving or wanting to understand from an expert recruiters perspective, all the things that are going on right now, please stay tuned. Deeper, I’ve got lots and lots and lots of questions for you. Perhaps before we delve in to some of the more nitty gritty questions that I have, I won’t actually talk about the landscape at the moment in the market at the moment, within financial services, and I actually want to get a bit detailed, so I’d love to maybe just almost go chunk by chunk in terms of different roles. So tell me what you’re seeing, quite specifically for financial services from say, like an administrative or operational role perspective,

Deepa Surti
I think, look, it’s it’s definitely a candidate market, particularly in financial services and financial planning. But in saying that, I have a little bit of a caveat, and that is that you have to also be good. And you know, you it’s, there’s lots of candidates out there. And I think that doesn’t matter what level you’re looking for a role. Yes, you’re in good demand. But you know, if you’re one of those candidates that moves jobs every three months or six months, are you really somebody that an employer wants, you know, you have to think about well, how syllable EMI and really look at your skill sets and how you portray yourself on a CV. And, and even at that interview. So if you know, like you said, you want to chunk it down into different types of roles. I’m actually going to just say that across all levels across all levels, it’s it’s it’s definitely a candidate market. Look, the markets move definitely during COVID. Across all roles, advisors are commanding good salaries, good roles. And and so are really the junior level roles as a junior level staff as well. Everyone’s struggling to find good candidates. So as a candidate, if you’re good, if you can sell yourself and you can portray yourself, well, you’re in demand.

Jess Brady
Great. And that’s from everyone from administrative paraplanning. Advice.

Deepa Surti
Yes, everyone. Yeah, it’s it’s recruiters are finding it very, very difficult to find candidates across all levels. Because, look, you know, all advice practices, they’re all looking for it.

Jess Brady
Isn’t that so comforting for the people who are listening, who maybe don’t feel like they’re in the right home, right now to know that they are in, you know, the rat market to really be able to find something better for them?

Deepa Surti
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m also finding that, you know, advisors are having to kind of look outside the box as well, because you’re not going to get the 10 out of 10 person. You know, look, if you do man, jump for it, and go for it, because they are quite rare. But I’m also finding and I’m certainly consulting with a lot of my clients that look, try and have a bit of a plan B, because if you don’t get 10 out of 10 What What else will you look at and it could be transferable skills. So let’s just see, say it’s, uh, you know, you’re looking for a CSO, well, would you look at somebody that’s coming out of a advisory services call center? Or would you look at somebody from a completely different industry? Yeah, I’ve done their financial planning qualifications. And they’re so passionate that they want to get into the industry. So look for that, as well. I’m a really, really big believer that if you’re passionate, you can learn and you will develop those skills.

Jess Brady
Great. I’m just thinking about this. So the mortgage broking business that we work a lot with, they have built an amazing business, but the people that they get to do all of their sort of client facing customer service facing roles. They’ve actually all taken them from coffee shops, like hospitality places. And it just seems so logical because you can’t, there are some things that you can teach. And there are some things that I don’t think you can teach.

Deepa Surti
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s really clever, actually. Because at the end of the day, it’s, you know, it doesn’t matter what you do, you’re selling you’re selling something. And so that’s that’s a really clever way of doing it. And I guess in that situation, then employers are probably looking at well, what are your tangible skills and what are your transferable skills that we can use? So I think that’s really clever. Yeah.

Jess Brady
What do you see in terms of Mistakes that Candidates Make during The hiring process,

Deepa Surti
I think I see this a lot. And it’s a real turnoff is when candidates just get really cocky. So let’s just say like, I know it’s a candidate short market, but the number of times you see candidates just get really cocky because they know they’re in demand. But that’s also a turnoff to employers. Because what do I want somebody that’s really cocky? What are you going to do with my clients? How are you going to speak to my clients? So that that’s one thing is, yeah, you’re in demand, but just just just be human. And just be yourself. And I think what a lot of candidates also do is they portray themselves as something that they may not necessarily be just to score the job and really impressive interview. So for me, I always say to candidates, be yourself, be it this is, this is your job, this is your career, you it’s got to work for you. The other thing, I think that where they lack is lack of research. You know, make sure you know who you’re talking to make sure you’ve actually looked at their business. You know, you know, it’s a great, you know, maybe even some talking points like, do you share a common interest in sport, or something? So you know, that interview? Yes, you’ve got to be able to sell yourself, but you also want to see if you’ve got this connection with the person that you’re going to work for. Because if you don’t have that connection, it’s not going to work out. Are people

Jess Brady
I’m still stuck on the cocky, arrogant piece, I need to delve deeper. Okay. Are people arrogant to you? Are people Eric, like, tell me how this manifests itself during the hiring process?

Deepa Surti
Definitely, as a recruiter, we see this a lot. They get cocky, because like I said, they know they’re in demand. And just look, I deal with so many different attitudes. And to be honest, if they can’t, if they are rude to me, how are they going to be when they go work in an employee, let’s just say, they go and meet the receptionist. I see this a lot. By the way, God, this is so frustrating, when you know, I might have represented a candidate to a particular client, but they go for their interview for their client, let’s just say they’re gonna go an interview with you, Jess, they are so rude to the receptionist, or the person that’s there to greet them. And this is where the cockiness comes out. Because I am king. Can I say this word King share? Yeah. And so they they think that Yep, I’m in demand. I’m hot. And doesn’t matter how I treat everybody else.

Jess Brady
And so I know a secret. Yeah, I work in a co working space when when we do face to face interviews, I would always ask the reception team.

Deepa Surti
Yes. What they were like, yes, exactly. And I do the same, I do exactly the same. Because who’s, who’s the first person you want to impress? It’s the receptionist, that receptionist is in there for a reason. And they’re kind of like that person that’s screening people as they walk in the door. So I think it’s a really good gauge of what that person’s like that you’d be surprised that it’s, you’d be surprised how many people do it. It’s the most frustrating thing. And, and I’ve seen candidates get knocked out of the race because of that.

Jess Brady
Wow. Yeah. Interesting. Do you think in your opinion, when do you talk money,

Deepa Surti
okay, when you are a candidate searching for a job. And if you’re dealing with a recruiter, it’s got to be in the first conversation, because there’s no point a recruiter trying to represent you, if your money’s not on the on the same wave, if you’re not on the same level thing, wavelength or there’s an employer, for instance. So you have to have that conversation with your recruiter, typically in the first interview, because you got to remember, your recruiter is there to put your best foot forward. And they got to be able to say, you know, you put what your salary expectations up front on the table, because otherwise just a waste of everyone’s time, if you’re off market, I guess, if you’re dealing with an employer directly, and you know, let’s just say you were trying to source yourself slightly differently. But again, if you’re looking at five, if you’re that hot candidate, and you’re looking at five different jobs, you kind of want to know early on in the piece, what the role is paying, I wouldn’t be going on the phone call saying, What’s this job? What’s it paying, because at the end of the day, you want to be able to sell yourself, portray yourself in the best light, and essentially be that person where they want, they want to invite you back. And if they want to invite you back, then that’s probably a good idea to have that conversation at around the first interview stage. But you also got to understand what what the stages are as well. But typically, you know, I would say, towards the end of the first conversation, particularly if you know, you’ve got other jobs on the table.

Jess Brady
And so when when they’re going through a recruiter like yourself, and you’re sort of talking about market expectations, my my thinking is that you would say to them If you’re not in, that’s not what we would expect, because it’s too much do you tell them if it’s under?

Deepa Surti
Yes, I would. But I would also gauge it based on their experience. Like if you’re having a five minute phone call with a candidate. Yeah, look, don’t don’t, you can’t you don’t have a proper assessment of the candidate. So I mean, it’s it. Look, I’ve got to be honest with you. I’ve spoken to so many candidates over the years. And I just know what the markets paying. I mean, I don’t know all the roles, but I know a lot of roles to the, through the course of the roles that I’ve been recruiting. And if a candidate is applying for a job, and I know that they’re being paid 10, or $15,000, on the market, and I think it’s valuable for them to know, yeah, absolutely, I would, I would tell them, and, you know, most of the time, they’d be really, really happy to hear that. But at the same time, if they’re looking for leaving for a job, for whatever reason, and money is not one of them, you know, you just might get good value as well. But it’s, I think it’s very individual. But look here to answer your question. Yeah, I’d have that conversation upfront. I think it’s, I think it’s really important. And they should feel like, you know what, I’ve got all this experience, why am I not being paid accordingly?

Jess Brady
I may have made this up. I don’t know if this is right. A female advisors at the moment attracting because they are in higher demand more salary?

Deepa Surti
Yes, or No? Definitely female advisors are like every second advisor, or every several sort of practice that I talked to, they’ve got that they would love females in their business. It’s not just advice. It’s it’s like, I mean, I’m I deal with accounting firms as well. And I walk into a meeting and they’d say, I’d really love to have an accountant that’s female. But look, my job as a recruiter is not, I can’t, I can’t say, Okay, here’s the best male for the job, or he’s the best female for the top. I just, it’s about the skill sets and what they can actually bring to the table. Unfortunately, there’s just not a lot of female advisors out there. And, and I guess, firms are looking to have that balance as well. So yeah, look, if you’re a female advisor in this industry, hey, you’ve got already, you’re a bit ahead.

Jess Brady
We don’t have enough female advisors. But you know what we’ve got, we’ve got a lot of female power planners, that would probably make really great advisors if they step out of their comfort zone. So it’s worth thinking about if they’re listening. Yeah, totally. Okay. So what is the general let’s say, you’ve never or you haven’t for a really long time been through the recruitment process. Let’s talk about generally, what is the process look like from a candidates perspective? And can we talk about how long things tend to take in terms of what type?

Deepa Surti
So what do you mean, sorry, from a candidates perspective? What?

Jess Brady
So like, they find a job that they think, Oh, that’s cool. I’m keen to learn more. Like, typically what happens? Let’s, let’s use the example that they have someone like you as a recruiter as part of the process, because I know it can vary. Obviously, it varies. But as a general theme, when you work with financial planning businesses, what do you see as the general process in terms of what that would look like?

Deepa Surti
Okay, well, basically, the first from from a recruiters point of view, obviously, the first thing we look at is how they present themselves on paper, unfortunately, or can I say this, but there’s just a lot of recruiters that might dismiss candidates on paper too early. And I think when you and this is, I guess, a really hot tip that I would tell employers to make sure you consider this through the hiring processes. Don’t dismiss candidates too early, that, you know, they might be a great advisor or CSO or a paraplanner. But they’re terrible at writing their resume. But should you dismiss them because of that? The number of times I’ve seen candidates being dismissed, I’ve picked them up, and they’ve been my success stories. And, and, and they have progressed so well in the industries or, you know, whatever, whatever job they choose. So they, and you know what, they just didn’t write the best resume. But there’s underlying, you know, what have they got on their resume? What else can they bring to the table, they’ve got the experience. So that’s the first thing I would say is don’t dismiss too early. But from a candidate’s point of view, your first opportunity to when you’re looking for a role is to sell yourself and how do you do that? Well, the first thing is on paper. So you might want to get where you should get your resume looked at and get somebody’s to give you a independent viewpoint on it. But also when you’re applying just just be really, I guess, factual in in what you put on your resume as well and use Lots of descriptive language as well. And don’t you know, I see so many resumes where people just go on and on and on about, they just use high level language that you have to sometimes have to Google the word that they’re using. Like, it’s, it’s just just tell me what you do like it, just give me bullet points and just tell me what you do and explain to me from a human perspective, what your experience is. So that’s the first thing. And then obviously, if you get across the table of a recruiter or an employer, then you’ve got that, that first phone call is your opportunity to again, put your best foot forward. So really think about what your skills are, and be able to say that in the first few minutes of a conversation with a recruiter or a hiring manager, because you’ve got to think recruiters and hiring managers are talking to lots of other people as well, or they may not actually in this market. So it’s just you just want to be able to hear what a candidate can tell you in the first few minutes. And if you like what you hear, just invite them in straightaway for for a discussion don’t I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t wait and say, Hey, let me get back to you, particularly in the financial planning market, contact them straightaway.

Jess Brady
So if we think about this, from a candidates perspective, you know, your resume, then you’re likely to have the first sort of phone conversation. This is a short conversation, correct? Not like a full long interview, how long?

Deepa Surti
I mean, look, I’ve been in situations where I’ve just engaged with the candidate very, very quickly. And like, I might have said this earlier that if I’m a candidate in a hot market, and I’m looking, I’m also talking to other employers. So for me, as a candidate, I want to know what you offer, and why should I come and work for you. So in some ways, as an employer, you also need to sell the candidate about what the opportunity is. But that’s also like, I have lots of conversations with candidates that I thought would only go for a couple of minutes, they end up going for 2030 minutes, because they’ve just got the right questions to ask me. And it tells me a lot about the candidate. And if candidates have got those type of questions, and they can reflect their experience pretty quickly, then they’re probably a good candidate.

Jess Brady
good insight, and how many? So let’s say you go through that phone sort of preliminary interview, because that’s typically with a recruiter, I’d imagine. And then you put them forward to the prospective employer. What’s this current vibe? Like? How many interviews are you seeing is like the norm, before someone’s making an offer?

Deepa Surti
I’ve seen employers in this market, offering candidates into in the interview on the spot, they just know they’ve got the right candidate, the candidate knows it’s right for them. They’ve done their homework beforehand, they’ve walked into the interview and gone, this company I want to work for, and the vibe is there. I’ve seen employers offer candidates on the spot, subject to References, and all that kind of thing. Other times I’ve seen, people really get it having to come back multiple times for an interview. But the longer you have the process, the greater the chance that they’re going through other processes that are a lot shorter. So you are competing. So candidates look, typically, if you have had to look, typically there’s about two interviews, because you also, from a candidate perspective, you also want to meet other people in the business as well. Not just just maybe say the hiring manager that said in that interview, you’d want to also see who else you you’re working for, and what the culture of the team is like, and just have a tour of the office, that kind of thing.

Jess Brady
It’s sort of an interesting point that you make around the candidates piece, because in the quest to find a good role, do you think people and obviously like to get a new job and to make it as fast as possible? Are people are people taking jobs too quickly, because another business that could have been a better fit is taking a bit longer to do their due process?

Deepa Surti
Look, it depends on the role, definitely at the junior level, I see that happening a lot. Because they’re just they basically jump for the first opportunity. That happens a lot. I’m not generalizing here, but it does happen a lot. But if you’re an advisor, or if you’re a paraplanner, you have a lot more choice. Again, my caveat is is if if you are a good candidate, but you typically will have a lot more choice, therefore you can take your time a little bit. But what will happen along the way is you might get a bit of pressure from recruiters or employers to make a decision. And if I was a candidate in this market, and I know that I’ve got great skills, listen to all of the stories, listen to all your options, because this is your job that you’re going to every day and you want to make sure that you make the right decision. And if you’re getting forced into making a decision, is that really the company you want to be with?

Jess Brady
And I think also from a G dunya I don’t like that word, but for from an administrative or operational perspective, I would also think of having done that role, you know, like progression opportunities and mentorship and development like how well rather than just, they’re gonna offer me the right job right now, like I would be thinking, one or two years ahead, like, how are they going to really invest in me?

Deepa Surti
Absolutely. Yeah. And quite often candidates get swayed by high salaries up front. So as a candidate, just do your research, because you’re right, am I going to get developed here? Do I have good mentors? That’s why you should do your research and see, you know, who the people you’re interviewing with? What their what what has been their journey. Like you said, you started out as a CSO, and then you progress through the industry. What’s really important at a young age is particularly in the financial planning industry, is that you do get the right mentoring, and the right training and you can see a path and you definitely think a couple of heads. couple a couple of stages ahead.

Jess Brady
Yeah, I started as what I would refer to as a switch bitch. He tagged me technical term, which is Do you remember in the old days, when you would call the bank and then you would have to be switched to a division? Yes, that was me, you might have spoken to me. And it’s interesting, because I didn’t do sort of the traditional banks through a financial planning business. But I absolutely did that through a bank. Like I was in CSO world for years and years and years. And I think it’s easy to see an advisor or someone that’s maybe senior in a business and forget that they have been there too. And they’ve done that. And years of learning, and, you know, all of that on the job training that then prepares them for that. Because I think without that, you probably aren’t going to be as good as you could be. And I think a lot of like, having watched a lot of the younger people, there’s this quest to get to the top immediately.

Deepa Surti
Do you see that? Yeah, absolutely. And just take take a chill pill, man, you’ve got a, you’ve got a you’ve got to learn the stages. And if you don’t get the fundamentals, right, are you really going to be successful in two, three years time? Because you don’t want to miss miss stuff along the way. So just Yeah, so just just just make sure as a candidate that you do research.

Jess Brady
Yeah. Interesting. One of the points on that I want to talk about is, like you said that that some candidates ask you some really good questions, that helps you sort of figure out, okay, these people look good. And I can see that they really care and they want to understand more. What are some of the questions that candidates should be thinking about asking their a prospective employer? Do you think?

Deepa Surti
Well, I think you you’ve already said some of it, some of them is so what training am I going to get? What mentoring am I going to get? What what’s sort of my career progression look like? How what sort of team activities so from a social point of view point of view, like what will I get involved in what what what else do you do to to develop, develop me as a person that is and culturally, how is that reflected? You know, things like that. The other thing is, and these are really good questions, I love it when candidates ask me so what does the first look worse? First week look like? And and what is the first three months look like and, and what am I getting KPI on. And sometimes, you know, like I said, you don’t you know, we live in this world where you’re not necessarily going to get for 10 out of 10 candidates. So for that candidate that maybe got six or seven out of the skills, I love it when a candidate says, Look, I don’t tick all the boxes. I don’t have it all. But this is what I do want. Would they be this beautiful question? Would they be willing to invest in me?

Jess Brady
Can we pause there? Because I think that’s so important. Because I have seen research that says that men often will do that. They’ll look at what the role says and be like, okay, cool. I can do these, but I can’t do these. I can put myself forward. But apparently, we’re obviously generalizing. Often women will look at it and think, oh, I don’t I can’t apply for that role, because they don’t have all of the things that they want. I’m saying as a recruiter, be honest about it and frank about it, but don’t let that stop you from moving forward. Absolutely.

Deepa Surti
Absolutely. And then obviously that’s a that’s obviously an insecurity and confidence thing coming. But look, women you’re in demand, like if you’ve got some good skills, and you really want you know, maybe you’re a mom or somebody that’s been out of the workforce for a while, but you were doing so well before you went on that lever whatever. And you’ve got these great fundamental skills, bring them to the table and sell that

Jess Brady
lever in Pasta syndrome at home.

Deepa Surti
Yeah. How can you see this with I mean, look, I’m I’m I’ve got kids as well. And I mean, jeez, I think the toughest job in the world is raising kids. And, you know, you just learn other skills that you just, it makes the workforce look easy.

Jess Brady
Totally, I have a dog. And I think that’s good, great, great, great lesson, especially in this market. From an expert recruiter, don’t think you need to have every single skill that it says, but be authentic about it. I really liked that. I want to talk about, you know, in the same vein of like being authentic, how do you be authentic in an interview? Because they’re scary, let’s be really honest. They’re scary. How do you be yourself? And make sure that you’re articulating your strengths, but also being? I mean, do you be honest about your weaknesses? What do you think about that? I

Deepa Surti
for me, yet look, your interview is your opportunity to sell yourself. And typically what will happen is, is the interview should drive the meeting. But the interviewer should also try and make you feel comfortable. It is quite nerve wracking coming into the interview, particularly if you haven’t done it for a while. So you know, and certainly with with employers that I work with, or and even my own style, when I meet a candidate, I talk about, you know, the weather, and what did you do last week? And hey, so, you know, what did you think about that cricket game on the weekend? Not that I felt like cricket, but you know, like, just just just be human about that as well and have some really good icebreaker in the beginning, make the candidate feel comfortable. But then, for yourself as a candidate, yes. Be yourself. I just you can see through somebody that’s not themselves. Yes, you have to sell yourself? Yes, you have to say these are my strengths. But it is okay to say I don’t have this skill set. I’m not very good at using auto No, I’ve not used explain. I’ve used adviser logic or whatever the case might be. But I’ve got those transferable skills. So Mr. employer could if you know, I’ve got the skills, would you help me? Will you help me develop?

Jess Brady
I think it’s a really, from being on the other side of the table. Not that I’ve done it millions of times, but I’ve done a little bit. It’s so refreshing to have someone say, here’s what I’m really good at. And I think he’s like my superpower. But also, this is what I don’t enjoy, or this is something that I’m really not very interested in. And for me, I’m like this person is upfront, this person is a great communicator, because they’re able to tell me what’s good and bad. There’s a level of transparency immediately, like the respect level for me, goes way up when they’re able to identify the things that they’re not good at. Because let’s be frank, all of us have things that we’re not good at. And it’s better to find out now. And that’s sort of so important. Because I think in the past, what we’ve been taught is be like, be perfect. Did everything, sell yourself to a fault? And then you’re setting yourself up to fail fail? Absolutely.

Deepa Surti
Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. What should

Jess Brady
people wear to an interview? That’s just a silly question.

Deepa Surti
I think it’s a great question. And you’d be surprised how many people turn up to interviews and are just so sloppy. And look, why advice? Yeah, oh, absolutely. i Let’s not go there. I just I did a recent hire. And I helped a client, one of my clients recently, and I was shocked how the senior manager walked into this interview, and it put me off straightaway. And you gotta remember, the recruiter is the if, you know, just your hiring manager, and you’ve outsourced the recruitment function to a recruiter. And yeah, you might have lots of applicants that you’re looking at. The first thing me personally I look at is how they present. Because if they have taken the time to dress, well polish their shoes, do their hair, you know, like, they’re all really important factors, because it just tells me a little bit about that person as well. And so I definitely look for that in a candidate. I think that yes, COVID has meant that people are a little bit more casual in their approach. But I guess I’m a bit old school in that I like to see candidates turning up in an in a suit. It doesn’t have to be for shirt and tie or whatever. But I think as a candidate, look good, turn up and look your best. And then you know what if you end up getting the job and you figure out that hey, the culture is cargos in a T shirt, well you adapt to that culture, but get the job first.

Jess Brady
And also arrive early so that you’re not in your beautiful suit and polish shoes but like a sweaty hot mess.

Deepa Surti
Absolutely. And with all the train strikes and delays interests. What at the moment you should allow another 3040 minutes at least? It’s better to be early. It’s a good it’s a good sign. But not too early. I mean, don’t don’t come like 40 minutes early. Just get there. 510 15 minutes earlier.

Jess Brady
Yeah. Or like go around the corner and have a coffee. Absolutely. Like, rewind to come on. Don’t do that. Don’t do that joke that joking. I was giggling because, and I think I might have told you this. I accidentally one day forgot. Forgot. I don’t know. I was interviewing for some people. And I will adjourn. I’m a I’m a pretty casual dresser. I wore a panda jumper jumper with a cartoon panda on it. And the girl that who ended up we ended up offering the role to she would never let me live that down. Every time I wear the Panther jumper. She talks about it. But she said I was able to see immediately that your not the typical advice. Advice.

Deepa Surti
Yeah. But that’s great. Because that’s a reflection of you and your culture and who you are. And I’m sure that would have been a great story to open up with. And that’s a great icebreaker.

Jess Brady
Yeah, yeah, me and my panda jumper. I probably shouldn’t wear it if you’re getting interviewed. But I do think you know, we know interviewing people is nerve racking, I get nervous. I actually get nervous interviewing people, I can’t even imagine what it’s like on the other side of the fence. And I do really think it’s my job to make sure people feel as calm as they possibly can. And actually, sometimes I will say to someone, if I can see they’re really nervous. Look, it’s okay to be nervous. Totally fine, it is scary. We will do everything we can to make you feel. Okay. If someone doesn’t behave like that, or doesn’t make you feel comfortable with doesn’t even try. I also think that that’s an interesting observation to make as a candidate.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jess Brady
So beyond salary in this, I don’t know if we can say post COVID. But let’s just say this period that we’re in, what are you seeing companies or employers offer to candidates or being negotiated with candidates? That’s not just Here’s your pay packet. That’s the offer?

Deepa Surti
Well, this hybrid working environment is definitely, you know, post COVID world is, is people have just become used to working from home as well and have that little bit of flexibility. So having a bit of a hybrid environment is it’s actually just kind of becoming a bit of the norm, to be honest.

Jess Brady
So you’re seeing a lot of employers offer candidates the opportunity to work a couple of days from home a couple of days from the office.

Deepa Surti
Yeah, but I think a lot of people because you’ve been locked in so for so long, you want to go back into the office. So it’s, it’s like I’m actually seeing so many people say honor, I don’t want to work from home, I actually want to work in the office. But then they also liked the fact that they’ve got that flexibility. And and this is what’s really good then because it’s actually opened up for a lot of more candidates to come through. Because let’s just say you’ve got the working parent that needs that bit of flexibility to drop the kids to school. Well, can I log in a little bit earlier in the morning, drop them to school? Come back? And can I just work a couple of extra hours at night, and a lot of employers are just being so flexible around that. So that’s one thing that you know, like other things, like, as, as we said before, I’m seeing candidates really wanting to invest in themselves. So they are asking the questions around. You know, can I have an external mentor? More than what other people could I bounce ideas off other than just senior managers or people within the business? Can I have external people to guide me? If you’re if you’re a accountant, let’s say and you want to do your chartered accounting qualifications, well, does the company pay for that? Do you give me leave for study?

Jess Brady
Parental Leave paid parental leave? Interesting. Does equity come up much?

Deepa Surti
I do find it at adviser level.

Jess Brady
Yes. How do you navigate those conversations? Because that’s a hard one to try and

Deepa Surti
flick that one. No? Well, it didn’t. Well, this is again, I guess your relationship with your recruiter because if you’ve had that conversation with your recruiter, and if it’s a good recruiter, they would be saying to you, so what else can you offer to your candidates? How else do we sell you and your business to your candidates? And if you’re a financial planning recruiter, I’ve been in this industry for a while. One of the questions that should come up is is there a potential for equity and a slice of the pie? And I’m seeing that happening a lot particularly in smaller to medium practices, if they’re not Are they paying? You know, the markets move? Probably about 15% in salaries gone up? Yeah, like an advisor that you might have been able to get pre COVID. Around that 100 220k plus super depends on, it depends on levels, years of experience can command at least 15 20,000 more now, it’s not just beyond salary, but good advisors with a few years experience saying, well, if I’m gonna stay in your business long, and if I bring in some clients, what can I get?

Jess Brady
Interesting. It’s a good it’s a, it’s a robust conversation. It’s a good robust conversation. And I actually think we should say, My personal opinion is that I agree with you. The equity conversations that I’ve had thus far, have always been advisor, equity conversations, but I don’t think that they should just be limited to advisor conversations, like if you’re cracking paraplanner, and you can build an amazing business and really be a linchpin in that business. Why don’t you deserve equity? Like,

Deepa Surti
Oh, definitely a bonus structure or something like that related to your KPIs? Definitely. I’m seeing that a lot. Like I’ve got a couple of clients at the moment that I’m doing work for, and they give, they take care of their staff, their turnover is low. And they say, Well, you’ve met all your KPIs here, or the, you know, the things that we’ve seen in you and what we’ve seen, you know, how you’ve helped us be successful, and he’s a bit of a bonus for you.

Jess Brady
I’d imagine these are non revenue generating. Yeah. But

Deepa Surti
Ray is obviously once you’ve got your person, you got to be able to retain them, too. So what can you do to retain them is very, very, very important. And that’s really important for candidates when they’re obviously making their choices as well. Yeah.

Jess Brady
So obviously, we’re talking about a higher salary than perhaps someone’s had before. We’re talking about the opportunity for flexibility. And then we’re talking about additional ways to either remunerate people either through a bonus structure, or I’ve seen situations where, like, additional leave has been Yes. offered, you know, is that something that you see regularly as well? Is that becoming more common?

Deepa Surti
Yeah, I look, I personally haven’t seen a lot of that happening. I do see some some employers going. Look, you know, what, the last few weeks we’ve been at end of financial year, and I’ve seen that you put in the hours and listen, just take a couple of days off or two days in lieu? Yeah, right. I see that happening a lot more than say, extra days off. But some employers, you know, particularly at the larger end, some of them are actually offering not just four weeks annual leave, some are even giving them close to five. So it really depends on the company. And it depends on how badly they need talent.

Jess Brady
Right, let’s have the chat about when it doesn’t go to plan. So you’re not successful, which is always sad. What should you do to help you learn and improve for next time?

Deepa Surti
I think you need to understand why you weren’t successful in the first place. And ask for feedback so that you need feedback. How else are you going to improve? So ask for feedback from your recruiter and even in the employers. I mean, if you stuffed up an interview question, or you just weren’t prepared, that’s going to come across. So that’s why I always go make sure you’re prepared. So you hopefully don’t get into that situation. But I guess the key learnings are, I would always say, Well, what, how can I improve and get the feedback? Oh, yeah, definitely. And and I would hope, I mean, I often give feedback directly to candidates, but I would hope the candidates are getting that feedback.

Jess Brady
Yeah. Okay, cool. Is there anything else from a candidate perspective? I mean, it sounds like All in all, this is a fantastic time for someone who’s looking for the next opportunity to think strategically about what it is that they want to do and what sort of business they want to work for in the future. Is there anything that you believe we haven’t talked about? From a candidate side of things that we should discuss today?

Deepa Surti
I think we’ve covered I mean, I think the key points are, obviously, do your homework, be prepared? I think the other thing is a lot of people are doing a lot of behavioral interview questions and situational type questions. So maybe just prepare yourself with those type of questions before you go and have have your interview. And typically, particularly if you’re going to a large organization, here’s a hot tip, they’re going to ask you questions, depending on the person specification, so you’ve got a job description. The person specification says okay, I whereafter these four skills and they’re going to be soft skills potentially. So think about questions around those softer skills. For instance, dealing with conflict, or, you know, tell me about a time where you, you know, you’ve you’ve had an argument with a co worker or co worker or, or a disagreement, you know, talk about those types of things. So think about situations that you’ve been in and have really clear examples of situations that you’ve been in, and how you would address certain situations. If it would come to you, you know,

Jess Brady
great, great, great point. I love chatting to you, you know, I can chat to you for all day long. Before we round out today’s conversation. Can I ask you a couple of rapid fire questions? Thank you for today. So firstly, actually, if people want to learn more about you, how can people learn more about you and the work you do?

Deepa Surti
Just go to my website, WW dot recruit talent.com which is one

Jess Brady
T, correct? Yes. Because I make that mistake.

Deepa Surti
Yeah. But that that kind of tells me a little bit about that guy. So not tells me he tells people about like sort of my history, my background and just a bit more about my, my approach to recruitment in the industry as well.

Jess Brady
Fantastic. Thank you. Okay, some rapid fire questions to round out today’s two part series. What’s one thing you do deeper to look after your mental health?

Deepa Surti
Oh, I think I go for a daily walk. Every morning. I get up. I just I’ve got I’ve got kids. I’ve got family. I’ve run a busy household and work and everything. So for me my mental health is to go for my walk. And then I do reformer Pilates about three to four times a week. Good on you. What it’s getting it because as we get older man old, everything’s hurting these days. So I’ve got to do my Pilates.

Jess Brady
Oh, do Pilates is hard. If you are listening to this. And you’re like, Oh, that’s cute. You’ve never done reformer Pilates. I promise you it is so much harder. I nearly fell off the machine. First time I did it. Well, I

Deepa Surti
have full. It is it is really hard. But I’m now addicted. I love it.

Jess Brady
Amazing. I’m deeper. What’s a piece of advice that you would give to younger, deeper? Say

Deepa Surti
yes. If an opportunity comes to you, it feels right. And you’ve got somebody coming up to you and say, Hey, I think you’d be really good at this. Have you tried this? Give it a go. I love that.

Jess Brady
Do you have something on your bucket list that you haven’t done yet?

Deepa Surti
Well, hopefully I’m ticking it off at the end of this year and that is swimming with the dolphins in Mauritius with my daughter. Ah, so cool. I’ve just got to I might have to have that alcoholic drink beforehand in case I get too close to the dolphins there but then again, I might drown. Maybe not a good idea.

Jess Brady
Do you have a book that you would recommend a good read for my fake book club?

Deepa Surti
I think I’ve got two actually. One is if you haven’t read the secret by Rhonda Byrne, I would definitely I love I just love that book. I love reading it. And because I put it into practice. That’s the first thing. And recently I’ve read this book called unlike a boss by Alexandra Andrews, and it’s actually about leadership or you go write it down practice practical leadership that I think every person running a business and managing staff should read. I absolutely love it. It’s just it’s such a practical go to common sense approach to

Jess Brady
leadership. Amazing. Deepa, thank you so so much for giving us both a higher perspective and a candidate’s perspective on financial services recruiting. There is no one that I would rather chat to about all this stuff than you. So an enormous thank you on behalf of the X Y community for your time and your input on our little mini series.

Deepa Surti
No problem. Nice chatting.