#321 John Cachia – Transcript

Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben Nash from the XY advisor team. And today I’m pumped to be here with John Cachia. He is an advisor, founder and head visionary at the Australian Financial Advisors group or AFA group wealth. He’s also the National practitioners chair at the Association of financial advisors. So John super passionate about great advice and financial literacy, both in his business for his clients and for the industry. So I’m keen to pick his brains a bit on that. John, thanks for joining us, me.

John Cachia
Thanks. Nice. Thanks for having me. It’s been, it’s been really great actually seeing your journey as well to me. So today, we’ll be talking about my journey. But maybe off this will have to speak about your journey as well, because I’ve been very impressed by it. But thanks for having me today.

Ben Nash
I’ll make you can turn the turn the microphone around if you want to. But we’re obviously aligned, because we’re tweeting on our team numbers, sitting in a nice, neat 21 at the moment. So you know, brothers for life on that one, but they’d say, I thought you’ve been in business for for a long time. 1313 years and a bit. So I’m keen to hear like, tell us a bit about that story.

John Cachia
Yeah. So in a way, it feels like it was just yesterday, but then in another way, it feels like it was forever ago. So it depends on how my brains thinking. But yeah, it’s all been in the profession. Actually, since I was 14, my mum did the good old, you know, for eight, nine months, John, go get a job. And my cousin at the time, he still does has a financial advisory business and go to do work experience at my cousin’s financial advisory practice, traditional kind of risk writing predominantly back in the day, but got in there. And I said, Oh, this is this, I can make a career out of this is a really, really awesome now, don’t get me wrong, as a 14 year old, or as a teenage boy, it was the flashy cars and the nice things and you know what the industry had at that time. But as I started to learn more about what was going on, I could see the impact that it was having, you know, I started to experience my first claim payments, and, you know, the changes that made for that family who was say left, or if that person was, you know, had a traumatic event. And so, I really started to get a passion for it. So, you know, after school, school holidays, you know, whatever opportunity I could do, I was working in that practice. And me and my cousin for the people that know both of us together, and his name’s Christopher Kasher, if you want to know but based out in Melbourne, but we’re very alike. So people that both know us together, like oh, yeah, I can see that they’re cousins. Maybe not about the way we look. But the way we talk and the way we go about things and when you get when you solo like to someone, especially when it comes to the family, let’s be truthful. You can sometimes buttheads, okay, and it was better for my personal relationship in our personal relationships for me to part ways. And that actually happened at the age of 20. So I find myself as a 20 year old that my diploma at that point I was studying financial planning in uni, which was called the unknown of that beat. I think there was only maybe one other course besides the one I was doing available at uni at that point in time. And I remember back then I had a moment where I was wanting to walk away from the financial advice industry. actually remember, I wondered as much as I loved it. I was just like, I need a break. And I took a few months off just to kind of gather myself before I started the business. But I remember when a guy called me from MLC back in the day, who was the licensee, I was a part of okay, and said, John, we can’t lose you, mate. But you know, you’ve done that much studying done whatever, like, you need to come back and look. Alright, well, maybe I’ll go work for someone. And he’s like, Yeah, you could, but how are you going to go with that? Knowing my personality? And he goes, have you thought about running your own practice? So I’m a 20 year old guy. Go back speak to my old man who was in business. He was called the entrepreneurial mind back in the day. And he said to me, John, you’re 20 years old, you got no family, you got no responsibilities, give it a crack. So I took the plunge and started a financial advisory business, you know, 20 years ago. So if everyone’s doing the math, yes, I’m turning 34 This year, but just so you can just figure that out. And my What a hell of a ride. It’s been since then, you know, we’ve had so far we’ve had royal commissions, we’ve had everything that’s going through personally, I’ve had some spinal surgery along the way. I’ve had some gastric sleeve surgery, you know, still running the business all the way through that but you know, reality, it’s one that I love, because the way the what we’re doing today is impactfully changing people’s lives and absolutely transforming them and, you know, the comments that clients are giving me is exactly what I thought about as that 20 year old guy that I could I could make out happened and is happening today. And it really warms my heart to see where the profession is today. And I mean that and probably Ben, you think the same way like that the the impact, we’re having just glimmers of what I thought was going to happen, but now they’re actually in the forefront. And I’m really excited about what’s what’s to come?

Ben Nash
Yeah, I think it’s a great time to be an advisor who just chatting offline. And I think the tide is turning a little bit as as advice is getting better and better by the week, a month. I think like, you know, so many great advisors out there. There’s always been great advisors out there. But I think there’s more and more, you know, getting rid of some of the, you know, unethical advisors, the ones that have led to a few of the issues that we’ve seen in the past, also just raising the standards around, you know, what needs to happen. And, like, yeah, there’s been a lot of legislative change. Not all of it is has, you know, I think hit the mark to 100%. But obviously, that’s a very difficult proposition. And I think all of it has been well intentioned. And the overall impact has been that things have gotten better. That plus I think advisors getting better, just more passionate, you know, tech, making things easier clients, getting more savvy investments getting more developed, I think people learning, so I think it’s good that we’re sort of coming into this golden age of advisors, where people know that advice is good, they know that they need to pay for it, they recognize that it’s there, they get good experiences when they come in, and then that means that they talk to their mates more, get more out there. So I think it’s Yeah, I think it’s really, really exciting. And yeah, good, too. Good to see less of those, those horror stories that that we’ve all heard, and more of the good news stories as well. Yeah. Very good to see. You mentioned though, that when we’re just chatting a little bit before we fired up the recording here that your your business, obviously been around for over a decade, but it’s really been your team has sort of increased by four times the size just in the last couple of years. What What’s that? What’s driven that and what’s that journey been like?

John Cachia
Actually, as you can probably see, from my, my sound this, then it’s been very interesting, let’s be honest, some walking into COVID, we thought that, you know, we didn’t expect how well prepared we were to be honest, if you have made and I’m a lot of our growth happened when COVID started. And now looking back and having that reflection point, I think we were well primed, like we had Royal Commission to happen, really batten down the hatches, get the processes, right, get the technology, right, get everything really like, bang on. And then COVID happen. And we walked into COVID, just like from a tech piece perspective, we were already about 80% Zoom. By that point, we were digital from the start, it’s in regards to the docks and stuff like that, that kind of the whole way through. But we really were like, we were very well prepared, probably more well prepared than I thought we were going to be. So then we’ve walked into COVID. And we then really I thought to myself, well, in a time like this. We need to be on the front foot in regards to communication. Communication is key. And one of the things that we did along the way on our journey was when there was heightens around, let’s say the North Korean issue where Kim Jong Hoon was, you know, trying to shoot missiles, were really pumping out the communication to our clients. And I think when a time like that happens, we pumped out communication bigger and better than ever than we’ve ever done before. Okay. And so what ended up happening, I think was in hindsight was we were really on the front front of clients mind when they needed that assurity. And then when they needed that, you know that that person to keep them on track. And so on the flow of that there was I think the proof in the pudding. And I remember saying to my team right now, this is the time when we earn our money, okay, this is the time when we earn our money. And the proof was in the pudding. The client referrals went out of out of control. People saw that it wasn’t just talking the talk about walking the walk, and I think in 2020 Back then, that’s what that’s the reality, like, you know, it was these people can say whatever the hell they want to say, but are they actually talking the talk and walking the walk and this is when it was and so we’ve kept on that. But as well too along the way, obviously the business has changed. Remember, I started in kind of the risk base. So you got to think about it was like risks basic super, and it’s kind of developed and it’s developed to the point where it is right now where it’s very educational based. Okay, so I think a lot of the growth has come because we’re not just money managers. We’re more than that. Okay, we’re educators were behavioral coaches were mindset coaches. And when you’re integrating all of those combined, we’re delivering for our clientele, which isn’t the clientele for everyone. Exactly what’s needed to make transformative experiences for many, many Any years that can and as time goes by, it’s having that compounding effect. Now, on the back of that, you’re then obviously seeing the growth in the team to keep up with that growth. And obviously, a lot of our growth that we’re talking offline for me, Ben, and I think for yourself is organic. So it is from client referrals, it is from, you know, us doing a great job in telling other people. So with growth, growth, I say everyone has growing pains, okay. So sometimes I do refer to everything going on. It’s like running a childcare center. Because there’s always moving past and snotty noses and everything that we’ve got to taking control. But for people that know me know that I like living life in the fast lane. So enjoying every moment of it.

Ben Nash
So I love that analogy. What have you mentioned a couple of things there already, but what have been the biggest shifts in your business? You know, over the time that you’ve been going?

John Cachia
Yeah, I think the biggest one has been the focus on how can we make a, like, long term impactful change for our clients and becoming obsessed with that? I think, in 2022, we’re more client centric than we’ve probably ever been, okay, it’s become rightly so an obsession. My wife reminds me how obsessed I am in what I do. But it’s becoming an obsession about being so client centric, and how do we make impactful changes for life? And so what I mean by that is, if you’re comparing super funds, yes, it’s going to maybe be moving from one super fund to the other. Soufan is going to help them, but it’s not going to what I believe change their life, the changing of the life comes from the behavioral coaching comes from the education comes from how do we make sure that they are getting smarter with their money decisions every single day? And I think that’s what the game changer is for us in 2020, to that major focus on the educational piece that sits around the money management.

Ben Nash
Hmm. And so talk us through that. How do you go about that with clients? Because that sounds great.

John Cachia
Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is just the constant engagement on different pieces. So for example, if if the cash rates going up by half a percent, explaining to them what that actually means having the communication system where it actually understands what they mean, because sometimes, as practitioners in the industry, we sometimes forget what other people don’t know. Yeah, yes, we might know what the impacts are, because we’ve got a kind of economic background, but your client doesn’t necessarily know. So walking in through that education, it might be as simple as been a email that’s broken down not salesy. Now, where you’re trying to refinance a home loan, if you’re a mortgage broker as well, or, you know, trying to do this, it’s not it’s this is what it means, yeah, breaking it down into the language that they understand. And then also backing that up with a and also, if you want to know more, maybe Here’s an article that I’ve done, or here’s an article that I’ve seen, take an option to read and asked me if you’ve got any questions, similar to what I would see if I was at school. Yeah, back in the day. Yeah, the teacher walking through, these are the basic concepts. But if you want to learn a little bit more, he’s some extra reading for you. And we’ve really focused on making them smart, like smarter with money to the point where we’ll have in meetings. Did I explain myself correctly? Yes, you did. Can you just repeat it to me so that I understand that you understand? Yeah. And then working through the education? Yes, it’s a harder burn, it’s a longer burn. But if we’re going to make impactful changes, we want to create these people into absolute ninjas when it comes to the money. Yeah, let’s do that. Let’s create them into ninjas. Because we know financial literacy is also linked to other things like risk tolerance. Yeah. If this smarter with their money, they can tolerate a little bit more. You know, they’re not crapping themselves. Yeah. When they shouldn’t be. Yeah, let’s walk them through these so that they become absolutely, like I say, wealth creation ninjas. You know, as time goes by,

Ben Nash
and I love that what would you say though, to the people that are fearful that if they teach their clients too much that then the clients won’t need them to be their advisor anymore?

John Cachia
Cool. So let’s use this analogy. So I been you’re a tennis player, and I’ll just teach you how to win Wimbledon. We then backed that up by winning the US Open, we then backed that up by winning the Australian Open, okay. And we’re about to go to the French Open the SEC, the person who just lost, you just won, it’s very good. And three grand slams, we’ve know you’re going for the you’re going for the fourth. So as long as we continue to level you up and achieve your goals and aspirations. That’s not going to be the case. And I am yet to see Ben out of my clients, people who are more obsessed with wealth creation than me. Okay, so I guess they, I guess they keep me on my game to keep learning and learning more. And as we know, in the world of money, you may think you know, at all, and you’ve just scratched the surface. Yeah, we’re always learning. And we’re always, you know, keeping our eyes on other things. So people might be, for example, really knowledgeable and take cash flow management. Yeah. But they then wake on their investment planning. Yeah, they’re very good on their investment planning, but they might be atrocious on their wealth protection, or might be as simple as how many people can control their emotions. You ask them they say yeah, yeah, I can. Yeah, but When it comes to their own money, I can assure you even financial advisors should have financial advisors in my business. I’ve actually got another financial advisor who takes care of mine and my wife’s affairs. Yeah. Because not because like they’re teaching me anything from a money management perspective, is to make sure we say we’re going to do we do and we emotionally are not emotionally connected to our investment decisions.

Ben Nash
I love that. And I’m, I’m completely aligned. I know, for us with our clients that pivot like, people, they learn more, and over time, they get better at certain things. But what that allows us to do is to elevate those conversations. So we’re talking about more like we try to avoid the jargon, but we get more technical with things, we get more nuanced, and then people learning better, they’re more confidence. Get that, but I think it is still a bit of a barrier for some people that are fearful. I think it’s something that’s, that’s unfounded, though. On the flip side of my previous question, sorry, I was just gonna say like, there’s you mentioned a bunch of things that have changed there. But what, what, what are the things that haven’t changed?

John Cachia
Oh, listen, I think client first is always been the case, I think, you know, when there was the introduction of things like best interest duty, I think as much as people thought that they were like, massive changes, I think for us, there was color and no changes. There was some tick boxes that needed to be done. But we were client first from the start. I think the I think the other thing as well, too, is and I hate, I hate using the word, but I’m going to say this because it needs to be said, there’s been this whole beating up of like selling your services. Now, I think the whole time, like going back to my really rich days, you know, we’re talking about this young young guy, we will learn about sales skills and NLP and how to how to sell actually don’t think they have changed nearly a bit. Yes. It’s like what you’re selling, like, still has always been in the best interest. But I think what has stayed consistent, is making sure that you’re, for example, selling protection. For example, No one wakes up still today and says, Ah, today is the day that I need life insurance. Yeah, well, today is the date. We need to sell this and what why am I saying this? And why am I also bringing this up in this conversation? We have staff that obviously coming through uni? Yeah. And I think this is a big part. That’s not what’s being told they’re coming there and the client is going up that premiums are too high. Yeah, of course, it’s a cost. Yeah, you’ve got to work through that and have that sales ability to come over those objections? Because you don’t want three years down the track. Yeah, they’ve gone. Ah, yeah, we should have taken out that life insurance policy, because this is what’s happened. So actually, it’s I wanted to bring this up, because I think it’s, it’s been beaten up because of obviously what’s going on. But what has stayed consistent is my firmness when it comes to my conversations like, I will sell insurance if I believe the family needs insurance. But I think also being client first, this has remained the same throughout. And I think the other thing as well to resolve have always had this focus on going beyond my client. And what I mean by that is, since I first started, have always had such a young family, it was always to do with how can we set it up for them and how we could set it up for the kids. And obviously, now being a decade on, it’s not to say that we’ve gone to grandchildren, but we’re also obviously giving advice for grandchildren, our upcoming grandchildren as well, too. So it’s always been a business that has been designed to focus on intergenerational wealth, okay. And we’re doing a lot of that today.

Ben Nash
I love that. And I think that sales is so important, because we’re selling, we’ve got to sell people on ideas, because money success is something that, you know, you were naturally fearful, like you mentioned some of the emotion and psychology that sits around what we do, that people need to be sold on the ideas that make sense for them, what people want to cling to, is the super safe option that you know, makes them feel good, but that stops them from playing a bigger game when it comes to their money. So we’ve got to sell them on that idea and help them you know, identify and recognize what the opportunity is for them so that they can take advantage of those opportunities, whether that’s making sure that they’ve got the right protection in place so that they can have that peace of mind whether it’s you know, diversifying out of their super concentrated holdings with their employee share plan or whether it’s you know, saving a bit more money so that they can reach their goals a bit sooner or or selling them on our services and you know, engaging with us in the first place. I think you have to be good at doing that because otherwise if you’re not you’re doing the clients a disservice really because they’ve got this need that they don’t recognize the importance of and they’re not going to make any progress

John Cachia
with it’s you’re absolutely spot on and and this is what I think I think over the last kind of five years there’s been this whole focus on technical, technical, technical technical that the site We started to kind of come away. But when I’m speaking to some of the most successful people in the profession, yeah, sales is like, right up there. And we’re not talking about the, you know, The Wolf of Wall Street here, we’re not talking about that. It’s like you said, it’s the sales of the service. It’s the sale, it’s the sale of, hey, we can we can get you there. Like we can actually do this, like, this is the way we’re going to do it through the technical through the back. And I hate to kind of sell the dream he’s got it has a bad notion to it, but we’re selling the inspiration. And so it’s very important across the board around the whole financial service that we provide, it’s very important that that’s a staple, like you said, as well, too,

Ben Nash
huh, absolutely. Tell us, John, how do you go about building your knowledge in you know, the things that make sense for clients? What to focus on in your business, and educating yourself?

John Cachia
Yeah, so there’s a lot of like, internal learning, and what I mean by that is obviously keeping up with the technical and stuff like that, that goes kinda without saying, but it’s also looking outside, okay, so there’ll be times where, you know, I’m having deep conversations with neuroscientists or psychologist or the medical profession and really trying to understand the behaviors of clients. Okay? My obsession of learning is all focused in the business, I think outside each made, if you’ve got me to kind of go fishing, I’m a horrible fisherman, because I don’t even know how to put a hook on properly. But when it comes to the profession, it’s all about one trying to make myself as technical as possible and keep up the day. But also, it’s around looking outside and saying, Okay, well, what can I learn from external sources to make the business better, and for example, when you think about unknown client services, so trying to make them as happy as they can be, we can look outside to other professions or other industries to see how they make it. So good. Like when we were in person, I’ll give you one Ben, for example. You know, when you go into MCAS, and you order a coffee off the off the board, okay, what used to happen when we were in person is, you’d come into our office, the receptionist would give you an iPad, we designed that exactly what made cafe and I could order the lattes, soy latte, do whatever the hell they wanted. And then the coffee would come in the meeting room waited for you like an ordering service. Okay. Now, as you can see, that did not come from that didn’t come from financial planning that came from me walking into MCAS, and actually kind of grabbing that design and bringing it into the business. So I’m constantly learning on things outside of the business. But yeah, that’s that’s how that’s how I do it.

Ben Nash
And tell me about your because you’ve gotten involved with the AFA, what, what drove that? And what do you focus on there?

John Cachia
Yeah, so I was. So when was it last year on the inaugural great advice awards, I was the Victorian finalist, okay, aka the bridesmaid. But Malaysia in the AFA reached out to me and said, Listen, John, you know, you’ve kind of come out of nowhere, where have you been? Okay, have you ever thought about, you know, getting into advocacy and joining the AFA? And I said, I haven’t really and I thought that the association’s didn’t do much to be honest with ya. I thought that I thought that, you know, they were and I was against them, to be honest with you. And I thought to myself, You know what, it’s time to make a change of that you look at all of the other professions that we kinda aspire to be similar to you look at the legal profession, you look at the medical profession, and their associations are quite strong.

Ben Nash
Okay. To be a lawyer, just for the record. Yeah, I’m

John Cachia
not as boring. But, you know, they’ve got pretty strong associations, okay. And I thought to myself, who, if I was going to be like, What would I like, ideally? Well, I would like an association to be batting for advisors, and be having an impactful impact on on the members. So I said, you know, what, stuff it, you know, in my 75 hour day, why not make it 80 hours, sorry, 75 hours a week? Well, why not make it 80 hours a week? So yeah, I joined the NFA. But my main big thing that I wanted to bring to the AFA, because they do do a lot of things. But the two main ones for me was what can I do to help improve the public perception of advice? Be the be the eyes, eyes and ears for advisors to the boards and governments that govern our profession? And can I do that? Why not? Let’s give it a crack. Yeah. And so that’s starting to happen. Okay, I’m starting to listen I’m starting to hear I’m starting to be the voice go back to the boards that then bring this back onto the government because like you said, you know, most people now you know, the tide starting to turn but we’re now you know, for me that dream is that you know, if you’re a millennial, for example, we use the millennials is is like, they go to a dinner and they’re like, you don’t have an advisor. Advisors. Cool. Yeah. It’s like you got this. This person. Yeah, I’d love for that to be like that. That’s what that’s where I wanted to be. Okay, where it’s like, it’s like FOMO not having a financial advisor. Okay, so we’re getting there and I’m moving the needle on some stuff as well to to improve the public image and, you know, social media as well to is helping, I’m starting to, you know, work with a few financial advisors, and then you might be one as well to where, you know, we can start to promote the great work that we do for the larger community so that they understand the value of advice, which I think is a bit of a misconception, okay, and the more advisors that can help in that the better because really, if you look at our, our cousins, the mortgage brokers when they were under pressure, they got a lot of support from the public. And I think we need to do that to continue to move forward. The second thing is around financial literacy. Okay. And so, if you think about public perception as a big one, you know, financial literacy is a huge one. Being in the profession for nearly 20 years now, mate, I haven’t seen our financial literacy across the board get better, and it kind of scares me, I think being a father. Now I have two children, okay. For me, I look at my sons, and what do I want to do for them, obviously, I want to, you know, help them to become adults and stand on their own two feet. But a big portion of that is for them to be financially literate. And understand, you know, later on how they can do this by themselves. And not rely on the bank of mum and dad at that point in time, hopefully. But, but the other thing is, as well, too, so we’ve got that, that, but the biggest thing is because I see right in front of the US the wealth gap, okay, we’re about to go through a transition where the baby boomers are going to, they’re already accumulating some transitions, wealth, okay. And now that’s gonna go to the next generation, and I can just see the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. And I start to look at it and I say to me as a 34 year old, and I look at other 34 year olds, and I mean this in the most humblest way, like what makes me in an okay position in comparison to some other people. And people might be going, Oh, John, your parents gave you money? No, they didn’t. Yeah, my parents are come from Malta, which was bombed by the Nazis for, you know, four years straight. And they came with nothing. Yeah. But it’s that financial literacy that is, is dialing that up, okay, helping me personally, even to make better decision my clients to make better decisions with that money. But can we replicate that across the board? Can we do it by the masses? And as we know, the banks, probably, for some good reasons have got out of the financial literacy space. Okay. But that means that there’s a void of void for Australians where financial literacy is required. And can we do that? And Ben, as I was speaking about before, in regards to our clients, we’re making them smarter with money. Well, can I through the association and the great work that advisors do? Can we equipped financial advisors to do this for the masses? Yeah, get into the schools, get into the communities, maybe get some government funding along the way? Yeah. And help to promote the fundamentals of financial literacy across the board.

Ben Nash
Right. I love it. It’s so good to see I had to lean on just recently, and she was unpacking that as well. And I think that, you know, like, we’re talking about advisors stretched. I think people are passionate and behind this, so I think laying it up for them on a silver platter makes things a lot easier. And I’m pumped to see see the results. Tell us a little bit about the AFA group with would be just kicked off with x y.

John Cachia
Yeah. So what we’re trying to do so actually, one of my first kind of, like, my stance on this was, hey, listen to the advice in this room is a bit fragmented. There’s like LinkedIn groups over here. There’s multiple associations, there’s a platform over here. And I said, the one that makes the most sense for me is if we get the associations on X, Y, we’ve got all the community all the great sharing that we’ve got. And could we have a group that’s promoting the actual advocacy because John, the person that was reluctant to join the AFA was like, What do you guys actually do? Yeah, Where’s, where’s all the advocacy, and then I’m walking in, and they’re doing 1000s and 1000s of interactions, to make sure that some of the stuff gets through, maybe what we need to do is communicate it a little bit better. Maybe the community needs to be that sense of we can do on x, y, we can work together, jump in the community, in the community, get updates about what’s going on from an advocacy, advocacy space. Hey, listen, John and his team are working on this with the public, oh, they’re working with the community to improve financial literacy, or they’re improving on, you know, the public image for financial advice. So for me, that is going to be a space that people can feel that they get a real understanding about what we’re doing, okay, from an IFA perspective. So that kept up to date, but they’re also understanding that, you know, there’s great people in these associations that are trying to do great things. Okay. So really, I saw it as a natural thing where we’ve got 1000s and 1000s of people on the XY platform, can we use that platform to have kinds of these rooms that they open the door and one of those doors is going to be the AFA and what the AFA is doing for financial advice And obviously from mine, hopefully everyone hears my passion. You know, I’d love for as many people as possible to be in there to help my cause. So the more people I have that supporting my cause, and the cause of people like the lane and Ronnie P, and the people that are jumping on board, the more groundswell we can get. Get in front of those politicians to get those fundings so that we can really start to improve the public image of financial literacy for all us, therefore, advisors and for all Australians, when it comes to financial literacy.

Ben Nash
That’s great. I think it’s, as someone that seen inside the AFA, I volunteered with him for a long time was involved running in Gen X community for for a while as well that I got to see what all of the stuff that was happening behind the scenes. And that is immense, as you say. So I think making it easy for people to access and see that stuff is good, hopefully, as well through that potentially can get some more feedback and input from advisors. Because I think if we can all get behind that more, we’re getting a more diverse perspective on the different things and considerations. And I think that ultimately leads to a better outcome for those policy submissions and the work that that’s getting done. So that’s great made it look really appreciate you sharing your advice, his story and love the passion coming through in the financial literacy and advocacy space. For people that are keen to learn more, or to get a better sense of what you guys are up to what’s the best way for them to do that?

John Cachia
Yeah, I think for me, personally, probably Instagrams, probably my most public one. So if you just go to at the John cash, tat or handle, you’ll, you’ll find us, obviously on LinkedIn as well, too. If you just search by name you you should be able to find me on there. But I think the other one as well, too, is biggest one for me is going to be actually on the platform itself. So in x, y and on AFA as well, too. So getting in there and seeing what John’s doing and what the association’s doing as well. And obviously from a business sense, if you just you know, type in AFA group, well, I’m sure it will come up on Google, which we’re marketing teams than anything. Well, they should be able to do that. But yeah, I think

Ben Nash
I was doing some stalking before he jumped on. So they’re gone.

John Cachia
All right. All right, cool. I’ll just I’ll check the performance card later on. But yeah, so yeah, just reach out. I think the biggest thing is as well, too, is that in my role as national practitioner chair, it’s the be the voice in the ears of financial advisors. So I’m a big one about you know, hearing positive and sometimes negative stuff. Now, you know, I’m not here to whinge about everything I would love for more solutions to be the case. So if you do have a great idea, feel free to reach out you know, even pop it in that community. We want to hear about these so that we can take it back. Okay.

Ben Nash
Awesome, mate. Well, the powers all in the community, which is, I think, why the AFA exists why x y exists as well. So great to see me keep up the awesome work and yeah, thanks again. I’ve hope I haven’t made it at 81 hours this week, but appreciate you giving us some of the time. And yeah, I look forward to chatting you get on the next one.

John Cachia
Yeah, dynamite. Thanks, Ben. All right. Thanks, everyone.