How to create a seamless client takeover with Raymond Chan – Transcript

Gwen Lazarito
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the financial advisors Southeast Asia podcast went here and today I am with Freeman tan, He is a licensed financial planner and a the Business Development Manager of VKA wealth planner based in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Hi, Raymond. And thank you so much for coming into the show.

Raymond Chan
Hi, Gwen. Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone who’s listening in to this podcast. My name is Raymond Chan.

Gwen Lazarito
Right and and so Raymond is a financial planner who has been in the industry for almost a decade now. And so I guess the first question that I’d like to ask is, How did you come into the financial advice industry in the first place?

Raymond Chan
Well, since young to be a financial planner wasn’t in the picture. You know, when when you’re in school, your teacher will ask you what we’d like to be in the future. I remember, vividly, I wanted to be a singer, I wanted to be a badminton player. Those are things that I liked. But they were a financial planner. I mean, no one writes that in the way I want to be in the future. And my mom, in fact, she is a insurance agent back then. And then since young when we were together, or the weekend, she would bring me around to meet her friends. So when I was young, as far as I remember, I am thinking, how can one person have so many friends and so many places to visit when when she go there, they are very happy to see you, Hey, Apple, come, don’t come I have food, come get here and join us to eat together. So I didn’t know exactly what was she doing, then I just know that she had a lot of friends. Then later when I was in uni, during semester break, I wasn’t required to do an internship. But since I had free time, I told her, Hey, Ma might not be do internship with you. And then from there, I have a better idea what you should be doing. And that time she really committed to be a licensed financial planner too. And then we have a I have a greater idea. She can meet our clients in terms of insurance planning, investment planning, asset planning, and all those. So one of the one one clear scene I really remember was it was a Wednesday afternoon after we met a client. Then she told me Hey, son, let’s go for shopping. I love her. When shopping. Are you sure? Sure. So that was that was the day I thought Yes, ma’am. I want to be like you I want to be a financial planner. I need to do. Yeah, so it was a very interesting story. Then, once I graduated, I couldn’t find a job. I was thinking, maybe I get a nine to five job, get beyond the network, get to know more people, but I couldn’t find I couldn’t find a job. So what happened is I told mom, and she was like, You have no job come just join me be my be my admin for a while or look for a job. So as I was working with her as an administrator, administrative person, then I took my CFP cert over three years. Then in April of 2014. I got my full cert, and I’ve been practicing financial planning to today. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Seven years time, really, flies are my first client actually, indeed, his firstborn of the family. And every time I look at her, I remind myself that is how long I mean, financial planning is not primary school. Yeah.

Gwen Lazarito
Ah, that’s so cool. And well, that’s very interesting because your mother obviously did not really coax you or groom you to become a financial advisor, or a financial planner, but you chose to be be in the industry. And it’s funny because that you you all you thought was that your your mom was just popular, she had so many friends. And it’s very interesting that, you know, kids can see those things in their parents and think nothing of it. And also a point that you mentioned that nobody, as a child would ever say that they wanted to become a financial planner. Yes. A lot of people would like to say that they wanted to be a doctor. Yes, accountants, lawyers. And they provide. Yeah, they’re professionals who provide services that help people. And well, financial planners do the same as well. But nobody ever wants to be that person. So, but it’s interesting that you who saw your mom, as a, as a financial planner, I guess you saw the value that she provided to her clients? Is it safe to say that that was like, one of the reasons why you got into the industry.

Raymond Chan
I mean, in her visitations to her clients, there are some there are for happy events or happy occasions, there was one I once I’ve been with her to eat bowl, it was in another state, it takes about two hours, three hours drive. In fact, the client was cancer patient, and then she was there to do the claims and whatnot. So, there were ups and downs, and I can see clearly that by doing what she do, she did make a difference in, in other people’s life. And so, I realized that as as I was doing my CFP, it was six papers in total, and dealing dealing with financial planning topics, I realized, this is not being taught in schools, where financial planning itself is very important. Like for example, if you do not attend estate planning before you will not know that if the importance of writing a will, what will be the effect if you do not write well. And oftentimes, when things happen, then people will ask, do you buy insurance? If you are a real? Where it could be it could have been prevented if planning was done earlier? When able?

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, yes, I can definitely attest to that. Because my dad died when I was in my 20s. I think when I was 20 years old, or 21, my dad died. And he did not leave a will. So it was very difficult for me. Because my mom was very tech savvy. And like in general, so I had to take care of everything. Yeah, and I did not was Yeah, I was I was 20 years old. And I didn’t know that he had banks, like he had accounts in these banks. I didn’t know he had insurance or not. Nobody approached me that this is what I was going to do. Right. And, and that’s where early on, I realized and importance of informing your family members about your and talking about finance. And even then I didn’t really know what estate planning was at that time. I thought because it was an estate. Yeah, like it was just for rich people. So I didn’t really think about that until I met my husband, who was a financial advisor. But and now I am a very much an advocate for it. Because it’s not just for for the rich people. It’s it’s for people in general who wants to take care of their families, even when they’re no longer there. So yeah, and that’s why I think that more kids should want to become financial advisors or financial. I grew

Raymond Chan
up financial planning now, and back then is a very two different is two different landscape. Where at the beginning, where my mom were to tell people about about insurance, she started at insurance in India. So my grandfather told her, why do you choose to do this? Do this line talking about insurance means you’re talking about death, talking about bad things happening to people, people say to her, if you come and sell me insurance, I’ll take a broom and then chase you out of the house in that that time is simply like that. And somehow someone other money is a taboo subject is not being openly talked about. So that lead to a lot of financial situations. Maybe there are people that are her age or even her senior that cannot retire because they did not call off talking about money. Whereas non financial planning, it becomes something that’s more widely accepted, widely accepted by people. You can talk to them, and they are aware of it the real importance, and they’re looking for how best to utilize their resources and do the planning.

Gwen Lazarito
Yeah. And it’s very important. And as you mentioned, it’s an integral part of your adult life and yet it’s not taught in schools. Yes. So and you mentioned before we started recording that your that your ideal client is someone who is fresh out of college, right, like in their early 20s to their late 30s. And I can understand why because this is like the best time for you as a financial planner to step in, and help these people who were not taught in school about financial planning, and just to help help them and assisting them into making better financial decisions. But I guess, like you would be because you came from or that you’ve already assisted your mom, in her job as a an insurance advisor, and then later, as a financial planner, you get to did you get to acquire her clients, and she’s retiring.

Raymond Chan
Yeah, so in fact, as I started, what what we did was, she would continue to service our own clients. And then if her clients have kids, or maybe they get married, so I will be handing those, those new clients instead. So at the beginning, when I started, I didn’t want to fully rely on her, her her natural market. So I approached my own people around my my juniors within school, uni. So that’s why I end up with clienteles between this age range. So at the beginning is very much of talking about budgeting, or insurance planning, then over time, it changed into how I would like to save for the future, I would like to start saving for my kids education and all those. So are currently my mum is considered fully retired. So about of her clients, clientele is now directly under my servicing. All right, I’m the one servicing them now.

Gwen Lazarito
That’s good. And it’s, it’s actually it’s comforting to know, in a client’s perspective, because you have been taught by their previous financial planner, so it’s easier, but I guess, like, how were you and your mom able to transition her clients over to yours? To make it as, let’s say, painless as possible for for her clients? Right? Because I think that it’s not very easy to transition from one financial planner to the next. Because if you’ve had a financial planner, who’ve you’ve been like a, who’ve you’ve relied on for advice or financial advice, and you have told them much about your journey in your life financially. There’s already trust there, right that there’s a foundation of trust. So how were you able to make sure that the clients were comfortable sharing their finances because you mentioned talking about finances is still kind of taboo here in Southeast Asia. So yeah, like how we’re able to do that.

Raymond Chan
In fact, the succession planning wasn’t wasn’t being put in place at the beginning because when she was an active agent, insurance agent, what happens is if you leave the company, you will go back to your, to your principal, to your agency leader, then when she transitioned to become a financial planner, one of the key points is you can transfer your plot of clients to another planner. So what happened was the author or her clients essentially, we transcend beyond clients is we are as close as being family friends. Some of them I call Auntie uncle. And so they’ve been they’ve been seeing me since young and then as a kid, and then they do track my progress as I graduated as I work as a system because sometimes when my mom meet me, her clients, I’m in charge of doing the serious illustration for insurance. So I’ll be there and then doing the things and whatnot. Then she will always tell tell her clients okay, this this might sound ah, Raymond So in future when I stopped working, he’ll be on taking over me. So as time goes by she she she sort of start letting go and then the clients will find me for questions and then out tell them okay, are this quite a technical question? Why not I discussed with my mom so she cheated at this important key point to that to make them a shirt They say she says to them, don’t worry if you call me on I will still answer your phone. And currently you you earn you basically on the bonus because you have two persons servicing you at the same time.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes. All right. Yeah. So I guess one of the things that she did for her clients was still provide the assurance that she is still available.

Raymond Chan
She’s Yeah, she’s She’s not the type that okay, good luck. Goodbye. She still Yeah, sir, sometimes, if, if they if they want, they can call my mom and complain, but so far.

Gwen Lazarito
That’s very funny. But it’s. So yeah, I think that’s a very good move as of as a retiring or as a retired financial planner that you still keep the good faith and the trust that you have with your clients even if they already transition to another financial planner, but at the same time also also maintain the relationship between you as a retired financial planner and the current financial planner who’s servicing your active clients. And that way that I guess you’re because I think that even if you’re the son of the their old financial planner, if they don’t see that, you guys are still communicating, and still have this very good professional relationship, I think they might lose their trust a bit, or at least feel not feel as comfortable as they are. Because you have you, you and your mom have fostered this really good, professional relationship.

Raymond Chan
Correct. We do have a very close working relationship up to today. If for example, any clients decide to buy any plans, or execute any planning with me, I will also just notify her, Hey, this client is doing this with me. So she also have a shoe to keep track and also have a second opinion, sometimes you do ask me, why not you try looking at it from this angle instead of what you wanted to do. So I do have that advantage in the sense that I have senior planner ready to back me up any any time. In fact, talking about second generation, not all of the younger generation will be willing to just follow what their parents do. Some do follow. And this is Auntie APO son, she’ll be in charge of doing your planning, laptop, talk to him, some of them do have their own thinking they might want to support their own friends, they might have family members that are in it. So it’s if you ask me, would everyone follow the to the new planner? Not necessarily. Because financial planning is a very people presenting individual, they must like you as a person first, they must be comfortable with you. If they are not comfortable with you, then they will have to find another person to service them.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, that is something that I can also agree on. Because you have to have, like, I know that my previous podcast guests has explained this very well. But I think it’s something to do with that you have the same interest, like you can relate to each other on a personal level as well. And that makes a good relationship. And, and that’s why some or most financial planners actually aspire to be able to choose their own clientele as well. So yeah, and I guess my next question would be since you were able to, to have clients with an older generation, and now you’re also looking at servicing newer generations, like, have you learned from or like, Are there stark differences between how you deal with older generations and how you deal with the younger ones?

Raymond Chan
The methodology is totally different. The expectations and requirements for the older generations, if I will, if I were to put it is they are born more trust space, where they can tell you things like, Okay, I want to get this done. Help me Help me Help me do it. I don’t care how you do it this this Saturday for me. So it’s very trust based where, because they’ve been working with each other for so long. So they can they can do that. And also back then product choices are more limited and also less complex. Compared to now where we are in a market where we are some we choices. People are more financials financially savvy, they can do their own research, and they don’t take in everything you say, you tell you tell them whatever, then be like, Okay, let me verify what you say whether is it correct or not. They also have their own thinking on how to proceed with their planning. So, especially now with so, so much complex products in the market often once a while they do throw me questions like, Hey, I learned about this new thing. How would it impact my planning? Should we look at it? Should we should we try it? Yeah, that so it’s a totally different expectation within the younger generation and the older generations?

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, I think I definitely agree with that. I do know that. A lot of especially the Once who the younger generation that I am, I am in my 30s. But I know that the younger generation are into, and because we have a lot of financial trends like Bitcoin there was this the botched one, squid from the Squid, squid coin and that, like there are a lot of things popping up. And the newer generations are very curious about this. Because there are trends. And I know that based on experience, the older generation don’t really care for it. They like their their, like their Vanguard investments and all that stuff. So I can really see that there is a difference, indeed, with how and I guess the approach that you take is also different from from the, from older generations to the newer. And but it’s very interesting, right? Like, the newer generations now are very inquisitive, like, I guess, because of the technology, but they second guess everything that you say, which which is a good thing, but can also be problematic for financial planners, as well.

Raymond Chan
It’s a bit in moderation is a is a great thing. I oftentimes tell some clients to tell me Ramin, I trust you, you do whatever needed. I reply to them? No, please, I need you to be involved in this because it is your plan. And then you must know what was happening rather than put, let me let me hold the driver’s seat. So if I were to use an analogy of building a sandcastle, the older generation, during that time, you’ll be building the sandcastle protecting it for waves, protecting it from crumbling down, and the younger generation now have their own sandcastle ready. So they’re looking at how to make it prettier how to expand it. So it’s a totally different ballgame.

Gwen Lazarito
Right out. Which brings me to your article. So I’ve mentioned this. Kevin, Kevin Neo, who was a guest of my podcast, and has become my first friend has shared this article that you wrote. And it’s one of the things that you actually mentioned in your article, right is to review, review and review. Which means to take everything with a grain of salt. And always. And I like the your example here is that because this is so true, that some people or some clients take on a financial product, and then they quickly forget about it. Yes. And it’s very good to review it in it in at least a yearly basis to refresh what you’ve discussed with your financial planner, or your with the service provider that you got. So yeah, and oh, and let’s just talk about this. So you created an article. And it’s about your court, you correlating financial planning with cooking, right? So can you tell us more about that, just to provide context to our listeners?

Raymond Chan
Well, if you if you look at my picture, I’m not exactly eating. So eating has always been my, what my my, since I leave to eat, I don’t eat to live. So it has is part of the family cook. Eating has always been eating good food has always been in our genes. So being a cook, or chef was actually one of my when I was in uni, I went to this Chow, they teach us how to do it. And I’m thinking, this is interesting. Maybe I want to do this. Now I was thinking, this seems like a top job. Now. I just thought I went to do a business degree instead. Because our thinking business degree would give me more choices. I can more be more mobility instead. So doing MCO where we had lockdown a prolonged lockdown since last year much. I took up cooking as men as a way to keep me sane. So I was in charge of cooking lunch for my family. And then you know we the resources we have YouTube, I always watch Gordon Ramsay or Nigella Lawson, Jamie Oliver or the order service chef, how to cook and then if they made it look like so easy, and then I managed to do it. So I found one. I essentially reignited my passion with cooking throughout that. So Rick, how he linked to the article was in August this year, Kevin, which is my colleague asked me would you like to try to write an article four, four online online website. I’ve thinking hey, why not? I’ve never wrote wrote before and then I believe if my points are there, then the There’s always an editor to help me, help me brush up my English. In fact, the cooking one is my second. Second article, the first one I wrote is about the five things I observed as a financial planner over these years are the objections, the challenges my clients face. Then one day, this brilliant idea came into my mind to talk to relate, cooking, and financial planning, because if you look at it, it’s very much part of life. You want to cook for example, also thing I couldn’t say, Okay, you want to do cook, adjourn, which is a Korean pancake with seafood. You know, that is your goal. Then the next is the ones that go is there, you need to know what are the ingredients you need all the time without preparation. So once the goal is there, the rest of the thing will fall in place, which is parallels with financial planning, because you know how much you need to retire by when my mentors always tell me smart goals. SMA RT, so it all jives together. So that’s why that’s why I can I’m able to write this article out. In fact, there are a few there are some some of the points that I wanted to add in. So I might have a part two of this because you will never equate cooking, we find your pennies through different practices.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes. And the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because your piece is very, very relatable because everybody can cook. And then you’ve put the points on how they’re just the same in such a very digestible manner. And I mentioned this to Kevin that I’ve already circulated this to my friend. Yes, because I think it’s very important that we use language as financial planners that we use language that are easy to understand for other people. And yeah, it’s relatable like a cooking, right? Everybody cooks, everybody loves to cook. And so it’s very easy for them to understand like, oh, yeah, because, well, as you say, like Gordon Ramsay and Jamie Oliver, make cooking looks so easy. All right, but it’s not. Right. Like, there are easy things. But there are also complexity, complexities to it. And it’s the same with financial planning. It is easy, but it’s not easy. So, yeah, so that’s why I really wanted to include this podcast, because I think it is very interesting. And I hope that financial planners can also find a way to, like, have a conversation, if not create an article, you know, have that conversation that’s with their clients, or even with friends and family. That’s very easy to understand for other people who, especially those who are not very open yet to talk about financial planning. Because he I don’t know if in Malaysia that you guys are as are as open now. I know that before. It was a test of

Raymond Chan
me. But now I believe subconsciously, I’m trying to bridge the gap between to remove the myth of financial planning is for the rich. In fact, I believe, yes, for most, most of the rich people would do it. But even for the man on the street, budgeting, setting aside money for emergency, getting a good insurance plan. Those are also financial planning. So by making a more relatable, I guess we are we are trying to make it less exclusive and more for the person down on the street.

Gwen Lazarito
Yeah, yeah. That’s very good. Because I think I remember, like one of my friends posted on Facebook that a lot of people are preaching about financial planning and financial literacy, when there are still a lot of people who cannot afford it. But I was thinking, I think they got the definition of financial outcomes. Yeah,

Raymond Chan
yeah. Thinking financial planning means I need to pay a fee. I need to go through super technical charts, all the numbers and whatnot, that is only meant for people with the resources, or actually no, it’s really, to me, as long as a person is earning an income, then financial planning in any form would start coming in your ad.

Gwen Lazarito
Right, right. And I totally agree. And that’s one of the things that I would like to break as well, that taboo that financial planning is not for everyone. And I, and this is one of the goals for this podcast is for other financial planners who are listening to this podcast to have ideas on how to break that taboo. So that’s why I wanted to include your piece. But and then, so I guess my next question would be, since we’re talking about, you know, making financial planning accessible to everyone, and you mentioned that you offer for Types of, say services for your clients, you have quote, cashflow, protection, accumulation and distribution planning. Can you tell us more about that and why you’ve chosen those four as your core offerings,

Raymond Chan
mainly because of my client house are at the stage of building the life, like the sandcastle example, just now, they’re still starting off starting their career. And then they are usually more short term focus. So their immediate concerns would be like, I want to buy a house, I want to get married soon. I’m also getting getting a car. So some may not have the budget for doing a full plan for a long, super long term one. So what we try to do is we bring them beyond the day to day concerns of maybe not having enough money or struggling financially. And then we look at the big picture, because I’ve been in this for seven years ready. And then I have clients that been telling me, Raymond, I have no budget, because I need to do so and so from day one up to today, the story still remains the same, even though their circumstances have changed already. So And oftentimes, I encourage them, all it takes is to start small, start, start small amount, and then start playing it today, rather than doing it later. And then also, what I do is I insist at the beginning of my career, I will tell them, let’s meet every two years to review on whatever you have. And then now, this few years, it has become a yearly, yearly yearly thing, because things simply change. And then, like for me, I was single before March, and now I am I have I found a fire girlfriend ready within this short period. So things can change within at the snap of a finger. So then when we when we meet them on a year, yearly, or yearly basis, we can keep track of where are they now? And then is there any way we can assist them?

Gwen Lazarito
Yeah, yeah. And very important. And because that’s right, like, there are a lot of changes that have can happen in a person’s life in a year. And it’s very important to raise these changes. And what these changes entail to your financial planner in order for them to determine if the the course of action or the plan that they’ve set out for you, as a client is still still implies to you and your situation, if you like if you have kids, obviously, you have to update some stuff with your finances with your insurance, right. So yeah, and but I guess, because your clients are still in their 20s are still starting out, are still not even yet building their wealth, but still like securing the foundations of their finances. What are some of the challenges that you usually face in assisting these types of clients? And how are you able to work around those,

Raymond Chan
usually they are more short term focus, and then they look the next three or five years timeframe. I mean, five years to them is long term. To work around them is sometimes I have to force them, I don’t care, you have extra budget to just save this, this set this money aside for your emergency purposes. So and also have to guide them that you plan if you plan for your home. If you spend so much time planning for your holidays. What about a big event like your retirement? Or when you are about to pay for your first house? You don’t you need to plan for that too. So we look at that and then try to get them to be on the same page as us. They may not fully commit to it, but at least they start with something I believe starting is the first step of winning a

Gwen Lazarito
yes, that’s That’s true. I definitely agree because I know that a lot of my friends would they don’t say it but I know that they would like to talk to someone. I do huge financial planner, about if they’re on track, because most of the time they are not. But they are afraid aside from you know, thinking that it is expensive. One of the reasons that they are afraid to approach a financial planner is because they might be told to do something that they’re uncomfortable with, such as saving for an emergency fund or setting aside their their bonus or like a let’s say like windfall money. Instead of you know purchasing something or going out on a trip do get it saved for a rainy day. So some people don’t want that and don’t want to hear that. So I guess like did you ever have clients who are had pushed back on like your advice?

Raymond Chan
Yes. Because financial planning is a very individual thing. And from what I learned from my two mentors, they told me that the client’s plan is not our plan. Because sometimes, if you see the proverbial train coming towards you, you know, you need to step aside, but sometimes sometimes just want to stand there here. We do our best to mitigate damage. Yeah. And then if, after the bad thing happened, then we will go back to them, will you think we could have prevented this at first place, if you were due to do things differently? So and sometimes it some things have to happen before they want to want to want to do something, for example, in regards to meal planning, everyone knows that writing a will is important. They have maybe beneficiaries, they have assets estates to give out, but they just simply don’t want to do it. So in due time, when something happened to someone, then you realize, oh, this is important, I want to do it. So part of the reason why I chose to work with young people between age 20 to 35, because I’m in a learning stage and growing stage also. So I think it’d be nice if I have a planner that goes together with me, that is with me through to continue since day one, someone that has always been there. So I’m looking at investment rather than when they are wildly successful, then I talk to them, Hey, let’s talk about the energy is different.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, that’s true. And I really appreciate that, that you actually really want to grow with your clients. I think I would appreciate that from my financial planner as well. So right, thank you so much, Raymond, it was such a really interesting to talk about, especially for you today. Oh, you’re most welcome. So we’re on the same age group, right. And that’s why it’s very refreshing. It’s always refreshing to talk to a planner, who, you know, I can really connect with. So if I was a client, it would be easier for me to connect with you and choose you as a financial planner, because we more or less share the same type of concerns. Yes. You know, starting a family buying their first properties and all that stuff. So yeah. Awesome. And before we end the show, is there like, if anyone wants to know more about you? Or if they want to chat with you speak with you? How can they reach you?

Raymond Chan
Yeah, you can. You can link connect to me via LinkedIn, where I believe grant would be posting the link at the underneath the description of the video itself. Yeah, yeah. So feel free to text me and then and give comments on the Cooking article, because yes to my second article that I wrote, so I will be looking to write more articles in the future. And I’ll post it in the LinkedIn in the near future, too.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, that would be awesome. I will go ahead and link your LinkedIn profile as well as the articles that you’ve written in the description box below. So that if there are also any non ex, not not xy, but non financial planners who are listening to the podcast would like to learn more about financial planning, they can also read those articles. So again, thank you so much for coming into the show. Raymond, it was such a pleasure. pleasure talking to you guys. Have a good one.

Raymond Chan
And have a good one. Thank you