#303 David Dugan – Transcript

Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben Nash from the XY advisor team and today I’m pumped to be here with the good Dr. David Dugan. Dukes is a business coach. He’s a founder of abundance global. And he’s been coaching and advising businesses for about a decade worked with a couple of 1000 plus businesses helping them successfully scale. He also comes from a long background in the military. And he brings that regimented discipline to, to his style of business coaching, which I can speak to personal speak to from personal experience, dude, thanks for joining us, buddy.

David Dugan
Hey, G’Day Ben. G’Day XY family.

Ben Nash
Mate I’m I’m keen, I know that there are some some sort of pretty acute challenges that advisors are facing at the moment. And I’m keen to get into some of your thoughts around that. But just before we do, I thought, you know, someone that sees inside a lot of businesses, I’m keen to hear a bit about some of the trends that you’re seeing in the marketplace. To to Yeah, so people can learn from from others experience. But before we do, I know that you’ve just come off a a 1am start for a US based tech conference. You’re right in the middle of so I’m keen to hear like what are you? What are the learnings from that as the a 360 conference for tech entrepreneurs? What are you? What are you learning and hearing?

David Dugan
Well, I think if we take it in a context for the last few years for everyone who’s a business owner has been pretty full on. However, really what what’s happened with all the drama that’s occurred is it accelerated everyone’s push to go to technology, people are very, not old school businesses, but they ran it, you know, very bricks and mortar, which is totally fine to a degree is really pushed them into technology. And the big, the big picture was that was already happening. All this did was accelerated something that was already occurring. And I suppose the trend, or maybe the bit that is super useful for the advisors, is I feel like a lot of people think, Oh, we’re now in this new norm, and not. So there is no new norm, the new norm is our ability. And I’ve been very, I think very impressed with the financial advisors within Australasia in their ability to really add value to their clients during a pretty tough time. Because I said that the big global thing is to understand that this technology push is is going to happen a lot quicker than you think in the same way that COVID hit us. There’s this there’s going to be more of that. Ai, big data. The Metaverse, NF T’s cryptocurrency, whether you’re a big fan of it, or you’re not a big fan of it, or whether you think it’s a fad away, like it is here to stay. So those things are going to definitely play out for the advisor community if if only if only because their their members or their clients are going to be asking you questions around that. So I think that’s one thing from a global place that that regardless of what you’re in, we have to adopt some more technology. I think that’s okay, now let’s, let’s take the micro Australia with the recent legislation laws that have come out. And as you know what I’ve got the five tertiary qualifications, and one of those was a financial advisory, advanced diploma, and our deployment. And I love the industry, I love what it was all about. And when I went forward, the regulation even back then was was quite heavy. It’s even more now. And from all the things that we’ve we can say there’s roughly 17 ish 1000 advisors. And some of the predictions were sort of saying is that over the next couple of years, two and a half or so years, we’re probably going to reduce down to around 12,000. Now, because people are just going to leave and go, I’m not interested in this. And you know, I’ve been doing this for 30 years, whatever, go and do a three year degree or whatever, whatever, whatever it ends up being. So what that means from a Australia perspective, particularly, is you’ve got this decrease in advisors, but the demand is going to be equal, or at the very worst equal, but it’s going to be significantly more. So supply and demand means that there’s going to be more people that want advisory that there’s gonna be less people delivering So on one hand, that’s a good thing. Yep. But on the other hand, it’s a really bad thing. Well, it’s always it’s a significant challenge. And that’s the challenge of what I need to recruit. I can’t just do this on my own. And I’m going to need to bring small team in. So these are some things that we’re seeing right now in that are very pertinent for advisors to get their head around. Does that make sense?

Ben Nash
Yeah, absolutely. Like I know for us that we’re hiring we’ve been hiring for like two years but hiring heavily for the for the last six to nine months. And as you say advisor numbers going down, Paul was shrinking at the same time that and, yeah, there have been a lot of legislative changes. You know, it’s always easy to find things to criticize in that. And I’m sure that I could if I if I put my mind to it, but I would say that on balance, you see that the legislation is well intentioned, and and heading in the right direction for consumers. And I think that that alongside some of the fantastic innovation that we’re seeing with advisors, the transition away from product focus advice into more strategic and highlights is, is really fostering further even the demand for from advice consumers, because they’re saying, actually, well, I didn’t know that this was possible. And this is actually really great, because I can say, tax and support around decisions, and then I feel confident I can buy that property, I can do those things and happy days. So I think it’s all happening, the bar is being lifted, which I think is, is good. It’s unfortunate for some people, because it means that they’re having to jump through a few hoops that when they could just be focusing on helping more people. And that’s really unfortunate. But what what the positive side of that is that it is pushing people that aren’t fully committed to not be a part of this industry, which I think it’s a real privilege to be able to be supporting people in this way. So if you’re not prepared to do some work to, to, you know, I suppose, tick those boxes, then I’d say that it does show a bit of a lack of commitment there. So yeah, I think that it’s a bit of a purple patch for advisors. And certainly the conversations that I’m having with advisors and what I’m feeling myself, it’s not so much the challenge around finding clients to work with. That’s something that everyone always wants more clients, but it’s more so just like, you know, how do we work efficiently? How do we make sure that our team is supported? How do we find good people out? Or we recruit them? How do we onboard them? Well, so I know that for you know, as a, as a client of yours, I know that you guys have been on this big push around team and done a ton of stuff over the last, like, you know, three six ish Marlins to help people with that, I’d say maybe that’s a good place to start, like, what do you think one of the big things that people should be thinking about to nail it in that space?

David Dugan
It’s great. I think one of the good things is that with all the things that have been going on, and are still going on, it gives us an opportunity to really look at why we do what we do. So I do go through. And I’ll give a little bit of a dot point just on what we’ve seen. Here around, here are some things that that we’ve seen really work really well. Right now, with advisors right now. First thing is, and like, even though it sounds simple, I know people forget this. So for those who are listening, please write this down. That is first thing is remember why you started or why you chose to be in this incredible, amazing profession. Like what was it? That was your vision? What inspired you even if it wasn’t to be an owner, even if it was, I want to do this as advisory is really important right now to tap into what it is that you did now it’s going to be beyond just money. Because you can go out and do lots of things to make money, but you’re listening this you’ve decided you want to if you want to become an advisor for reasons, the first thing is to tap into that. And then from Antarctica, we you know, we call that our grand vision, like, think about that. What’s the difference? I want to make? You know what, one of the great things about the work that you do as advisor and x y. And also I’d say the work that we do are helping support and coach small to medium sized business owners is impacted we make a significant, like we like we don’t tell by single person but their partners, their economic community, their families, and helped create as we call it, intergenerational wealth. But we got to remember, why are we doing it? And then, and then Who do you want to champion? Like, who do you want to be the hero? For who do you want to go out there and champion? Now for us at small to medium sized businesses that have, you know, revenue from half a million a year to 10 million is the sweet spot for us that we love working with? So I go over an advisor within the industry. Who do you want to Who do you want to actually work with now Ben, I know how to work with these while you do work with a variety of them people that you have a particular niche or people that you know that you’re very, very good at working with. deliver an amazing result. faecal

Ben Nash
Yeah, definitely.

David Dugan
And so you go right, okay. Once you’ve done that, and that shouldn’t take too long, is it we’re going to think and before we talk about team as we actually go upstream a little bit and talk about the product offering. Here’s the catch. What I’m saying is too many advisors are still stuck in the old paradigms of how to do the advice work. They’re there. They’re unleveraged In fact, they got a very unleveraged business and what’s going to happen for them over the next couple of years for supply and demand going In a way, there’s everyone’s gonna think, Oh, this is gonna be great, it’s gonna be good. You know, it’s actually not, what they’re going to do is they’re going to create a business because of a golden handcuffs, a business that they can’t wait. And I’ve had plenty of people come to us going, Look, everyone thinks I’m winning, when things aren’t going great, but I hate it. And I hate working in it. And you know, the saying that you’ve heard us say, there is no no business owner will grow into pain. So if you’re already working 50 hours a week, and the idea of getting more work seems like oh, I make more money instead of great, but no one’s gonna go, I want to double my business, I’m gonna put in 100 hours, unconscious, unconsciously. That’s what people do. And they start to self sabotage, they don’t reply to emails as quickly and forcefully as quickly. So find out who we really want to serve, then the next part of that is, let’s have a look at the product. Now, that does take a little bit more than this conversation here. But we’re going to dial in a part and go, this is what we’re going to do, and then leverage that there. And how can you be the heart surgeon in that work? The reason this is important is because that goes to the next thing around talent, that just know that we need to use technology in the solution as much as we possibly can. And the business model and the pricing model, around a paragraph rain needs to be appropriate for the value you’re delivering. And I think at the moment, a lot of people are still in old school methodology and working out sort of, I know, You’ve done a lot of work on this, and you’ve done an incredible job as a lead on this. And any comments you’re throwing around that one? Yeah, look, I

Ben Nash
think for us that was like, and I would say I always thought that we were pretty efficient with with what we did, but we do deliver. And I think a lot of advisors are moving towards a higher touch higher fee model. It’s partly as a result of the significant uplift in, you know, licensing requirements, licensing costs, administration requirements, compliance requirements, like all of those things means that unfortunately, unfortunately, for the people that can’t afford it, like advisors just need to charge more for, for advice, and it’s pushing people up the value chain so that they can charge more appropriately. So we we have always been doing that. And I felt that our model needed to have a lot of, you know, one on one FaceTime contact with our advisors. And it it does to a certain extent. However, one of the things that we’re focused on as part of our work over the last probably 12 months is saying, Okay, what is the scalable unit for for the advisors? Okay, how long meetings, what are we delivering? How can we get to that outcome without, without spending as long sitting in a room, because what and what we’ve what we’ve been able to do as a result of that is, we’ve probably cut at least a third, maybe up to a half out of our advice, delivery timeline, which essentially means that our advisors can deliver 50% more clients. So it’s great, yes, we need to recruit more people, and we’re still recruiting more people, and we need to onboard them and do all of those things. But if you can get 50% more clients out of your existing team, then you know, you only need to recruit 50% or 50% Fewer people, if that makes sense as well. So I think everyone Yeah, that there’s always more and I know that for us that there’s definitely more that we could do, but and we will do but yeah, I think it technology is helping but even just looking at like, what are the outcomes? And how well what are the other ways that we could achieve those outcomes without having to sit in a room necessarily?

David Dugan
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And you’ve doubled by doing that, you’re, you’ve doubled your capacity, which is great. And I think the biggest thing we see challenges with with advisors is that they, they end up becoming the biggest bot, they end up being the biggest value in the business, but they become the biggest bottleneck. And they just gotta get it. Gotta get out of the way of their own business, and let the business thrive. So he can actually deliver what, what he can for them. So that that kind of moves in just this conversation. And if you let’s say you, you’ve got your product, if you’ve got that you’ve got that moving, there’s a little bit of a transition that’s required. And that does require a bit of a mindset and uplift a mindset. And you know, there are some tools or some templates and things we were doing that what we find is that sometimes the because the desire of advisors to add lots of value, they will want to be even the ones who say that their leverage, they’re generally not that they’re still answering lots of the questions of their team. So what I thought I’d do just as a quick fix somebody that is the the community is listening to this right now. What I love to do is to give them a real quick fix, that will save them at least a couple of hours a week in on average, that’d be okay, but just take them through this. That sounds great. It’s a really simple formula. I’m gonna give the cut down version because it’s easy to remember that. The problem that we see is a lot of advisors and owners and businesses are still answering too many questions in their business. That’s number one. Number two, what we find is, they are also finding that there’s like, and I feel like, feel like I’m the only brain in this business and everyone’s kind of like, doing the menial task and coming to me to ask questions like you were the same level that is optical syndrome that is, is one brain, lots of tentacles, and everything sucks. And. And I also go the same way, just not stepping up and owning things more. Now, one of the things, the reasons that occurs, if you’ve got the right team, the right people in the past is because they’ve been conditioned that way. So one of the ways to get around this is use, one of the strategies we call 131. And 131. helps to educate your team to help them to think. And it’s really, really simple. When an alert this when I was in the military, as you know, my background was also as a dentist. And so I was seeing patients all the time, and my my troops would come in and go, Hey, so can you do this? Can you do this? I’ll be answering this question. The government, this is too much like our treat a patient answer all your questions. And so that’s where 131 was born. And that is when someone in your team comes to you with a problem. That’s the one we’ve got one problem. What do we want to do instead of them find the monkey on you is for them to keep that monkey? And how we get them keep the monkey is to actually ask them the question, what’s the problem? What’s the what’s the real issue here that you’re wanting to solve that on its own, it’s enough for someone to go? I don’t know. I’m just having like a bit of a Blab. I’m feeling irritated. Someone said somebody didn’t like Okay, so what’s the problem here? That’s the that’s the one then the next thing is, the three is their job is to come up with three solutions. And the people go, What do you mean by that? So? Well, that is the example here. I remember. The very first time I created this, I had someone come to me and say I looked at some of the front counter, this was a dentist. And they said they’re complaining because they thought they had an appointment. They got an emergency. And they want to be seen now. And my question was, what’s the problem? Oh, I just need to I need that. I want them to go away happy. Okay, cool. So what are your solutions? Oh. And the one of the key things here is to help your team to come up with solutions if they don’t come up with now, if they don’t like it, no, they’re cool. Come back in five minutes, let me know what somebody’s solutions aren’t. You can’t let them off the hook. Because you’re not allowing them to be like a baby who’s just starting to walk every time they’re about to wobble. You go and grab them, they’re not gonna get the opportunity to fall. And I guess. And then when you’re doing solutions, like well, what else? What else? Are they wanting? Keep in mind with with providing solutions? If you’d only give you one thing, then there’s no, there’s no, there’s no solutions that have been put in place as like one one thought, if you got to, you got to dilemma, this or that. So that’s why threes are really important numbers, he actually generally do have choices. One of those choices is you can choose to do nothing. But it’s got to be deliberate choice, not varying the head in the sand has died out, I don’t think it’s like, I know you’re not we’re gonna leave it we’re going to, we’re not going to do something about this, we’re going to wait and see, we’re going to review. One problem, three solutions. And this next part here that really brings it in is to ask the person, what is your one recommendation out of the three, which is the one that you think is going to be the one that’s going to be the key one.

And the job of the owner or the leader is to let them do that thinking and chances are they’re going to firstly they’re not as experienced, but come up with a solution, that’s probably not going to be the one that you would do, and probably not as good as what you think you’re gonna let them go with it. You’ll let them go with it unless it’s going to be someone’s going to hurt someone or it’s going to be something that’s really off off, you know, they’re really good at complaints completely change their financial future or something like that. They’re obviously not there. But you’ll let them sort of learn to fail, because what that does is it allows a sense of autonomy to them to own their mistakes. And that’s where the biggest lessons and learnings are. Now you only do that a few times to have the team really sort of pick up again, why I love to bring it in, is to take the take the team through that activity and actually ask them as a training. Hey, guys, here’s what we’re going to do going forward and 131 Maybe a problem and ask the problem. Here’s your three solutions. And I asked for your one recommendation. So that’s 131 that’s a great, a great little. One of the hacks that we were built from as you know, we’ve trained people on that can really help people to get a lot more leverage very quickly, but also uplift their whole team. Does that make sense?

Ben Nash
Yeah, I love that and it actually works on partners and children. Bed. Probably got one out at home. That’s like order our options. What do you think we should do? Okay, that’s great. Yeah. But I love that for teens in particular that you’re right that it shows that you are also, like, apart from you not being having to be the one that makes the decisions and as you say, carry the monkey and also shows that people that you are behind what they think. And it is a mechanism that you can use to, to coach and develop them to be better problem solvers in the business as well. So, I love that I think as well that that and that. I don’t know if it’s related, but I feel like another iteration of this, which I know that you you’ve taught us about and it’s been a real game changer is the the concept of the executive leadership team. And in a business, can you talk a bit about that, and how, because I know that a lot of these growing advice businesses are going from that, you know, small sort of micro business where you are like, like, you say that octopus mode, where you’re the founder, or the couple of founders are the are the people that are responsible for making a lot of those key decisions. And for us, it’s been a real game changer to have, you know, empower key leadership team members to then take more responsibility and ownership and, you know, free ourselves from having to do that. Can you talk a bit to that? And how people can actually make it happen?

David Dugan
Yeah, great. Look, I’d say typically, the advisor we we speak to, they have or they’re, they’re smart dudes, and dude, assets, there’s usually one or two key advisors. And then there’s got they’ve got some support advisors, that, you know, they’re usually seven figures, or just hitting in that that category. And they’re going over the top kind of dial literally, and I’ve got the businesses, their businesses is sweet, haven’t I sort of built it out? And the answer that is no, you’re just at the point of beginning that’s the that’s almost a rite of passage to get to the place that you can actually, you can actually really build a business because what we’ll find is there’s still massive key personal risks. If they all went away for three weeks, and everything was okay, as a bank guarantee, if you went to sell your business, they’re gonna tell you, you got a massive keepers and risk that sitting in that and that business. So. So what do we need to what do we need to do around that? And how do we build that out? I think we did just go a step before that event. And that is to, again, we talked about that, you know, what, what, who we want to serve? Like, what, why don’t we get out of bed? Who do we want to work with? What’s the product offering? That’s for them? And then the next part of this is, what does the team need to look like to facilitate that offering? That’s, that’s an important point. Now, based on that, based on that there, it’ll help you to work out what we call the key seats. And Jim Collins wrote about, so it’s his specific, specific language, and that is the key seats on the box. Now, it’s not every role in there, but it’s actually working out the key, you know, your your organization chart, and then the key seats. Now, the biggest shift happens in a business, and not just the value of the business, but the valuation that comes off the business is when the you know, if we look at in there are lots of books out there lots of theories around this round, you know, you have this person who’s the CEO, and then you have a general manager, or the visionary and integrator and as the rest of the team, anything, I don’t really find that I don’t find any really great scalable businesses have done now they are I’m sure I just don’t meet many, what ends up happening is you end up having a bottleneck go from the person who founded it, to the general manager, and then they end up just getting as stressed out as anyone else and you burn them out. So what’s the biggest shift the biggest shift, particularly when you see the business when they’ve just hit seven figures? And they’re like, Okay, well, I’ve reached this place of, of my individual brilliance has got me here, now I’m starting to get things a little bit shaky. So the key part of that is the decision making up until then, is usually one or two people in the business who are making the key decisions, decisions in where they’re not just the direction, but some of the most, you know, some of the important decisions that are happening month by month in the business. And while that is the structure that they set up their business, so what we say is the biggest shift is when we delegate the decision making to the executive leadership team. Now this is a really, really important point, let’s say, you know, as we there are different areas in our business, you’ve got your lead generation, you’ve got your conversion, you’ve got your your customer success, operations, you’ve got your admin finance, which is part of operations. And so just look at all these different areas, you might have a heads of departments for all those areas. And a traditional chart would have been our CEO, General Manager and all these heads of department. Okay. The distinction around executive leadership team, is there’ll be a number of people and each business can be a little bit different. Maybe three might be four might be five, depending on size. The business could even be six, depending on you know, bigger businesses. It could be a representative from each of those, each of those. We call them engine rooms or departments. It doesn’t have to be one person representing each though, but what happens is that that now forms up a different team that team, that team makes the decisions. Now they have some mandates, and they have some principles that the CEO or the owners gives them. But the really big distinction is, collectively they make a decision, not representing us, either the marketing person not representing marketing or not representing the the delivery, the customer success, aerial opera or admin. They’re making decisions representing the business as a collective group. What’s going on here? What’s going on here? What’s going here? Now, when that shift occurs, that’s when we see that’s when we say the businesses really, really pick up and more important, it’s not about it’s not just about the money. Yeah, you make a lot more money doing it. But the biggest shift we see on this bank, is that we’re leveraging the founder, especially one or two, the founders, the owners, were leveraging their time, what we’re seeing most advisors get to a certain area, they cap out because they just can’t leverage anymore. And this is one of the key strategies to do that. Does that make sense?

Ben Nash
Yeah, absolutely. I know that that’s the thing that, that I have been facing that you you do that there’s only so many hours in the day, and especially when you’re you might have great people that are. And when I build the business, it’s like I hire because I need a great power plan, or I need a great advisor, I need a great associate. And you end up with this. I think you might have said it’s actually it’s like you’ve got an army of followers or something. And it’s like, you’re still

David Dugan
it’s a Jim Collins quote that you would have heard me say, and that is, you end up being the guru with 1000 helpers.

Ben Nash
Yeah, exactly. Which is, which is okay, if you if you’re running a half million dollar business, or, you know, in those earlier stages, but when you start getting to the more, you know, bigger business, you’ve got more stuff going on, it’s just more things that you need to keep across. And that takes time to get there. And then you go shit, I’ve been at it for so long. Now. It’s like, it’s just, it gets exhausting. So I will start with that.

David Dugan
Yeah. Yeah. So that I knew, I thought you’re gonna say that, because what, you don’t start off building more, depending on how you want to fund it, let me let me just say, you know, most people who work with, you know, we’re not working people that have got a million dollars in the bank. And going out as they are a million dollars, we’re gonna invest in the business straightaway you get, we’re going to bootstrap it all the way through. And I’m, by the way, I like it that way, that’d be my choice, simply because you’re actually more lean on the way you’re thinking you’re agile, and you can work, you can be more innovative on it. So I think that part of it is just understanding there’s a thing called the lifestyle, lifecycle of business, and just understanding where you are and what you need to be doing. But what we need to be doing is a process called capacity planning. So I think, you know, to have taken you through a number of times in this as well, as you go through the process of capacity planning and go and go, what’s the goal, the business, what’s the revenue, the profit, we want to pull out? What’s the product we need to sell. And then we what we do is we’ve got to map the team, and the map the team for where the business is at, and you do need to hire ahead of you do need to hire a head of when you need that the demand. And to do that there’s just a simple, well, simple, but not easy process of doing capacity planning. So the really short answer on that is you got to do it in stages, unless you want to put a heap of cash in and and basically by the people right from scratch. What I would say, though, that, that so there is a process as a part that you go through on that, regardless of what size business that someone is right now, what can they start on straightaway. And I think this is the biggest if I can if I believe this is one of the biggest messages for the x y community is most people understand marketing. Most people understand recruiting, and they recruit when they someone leaves like, oh, we went out, you know, 90% capacity, I’m really busy. I now need to recruit someone. Okay, that that there is that overall thinking, and that’s what’s going to have advisors end up hating their businesses, we cannot do that anymore. What we need to do is use the same psychology that we have for marketing for clients. As we do marketing for team now we call it we’ve got a process called the six step talent acquisition plan. So as talent acquisition, and the saying, you know, the saying people have always be selling messages always be recruiting. Even if you don’t need them right now you can have them in the hopper, you can warm up, hey, in six months time on these, let’s keep the conversation going. You need to have the people ready before you actually need it. Now there is a there are steps and processes. But I think this shift in mindset is that this part of this is just to make sure that you think of your you think of your marketing budget, I will put the same if not equal or more money into my team acquisition as I wouldn’t. I can say right now, our team acquisition budget is three times more than our lead generation. Funding. That’s give you an idea of the Focus, were we on that phase because the massive shortage of people is not just in advisors, what’s going on in skilled labor is going to get more and more. So if people could just take this, okay, I really need to treat this team acquisition. Arena treat this as as a Hallmark and then need to step it up then then then unburied, superduper happy because in about six to 12 months time, we’re going to really if everyone thinks is bad now, it is like, this is just this is just a warm up.

Ben Nash
Yeah, and I think that one of the things that we found is that we’ve been taking that approach that always always be recruiting is that you talk to people, and then you start to see opportunities for how they can fit into the team. I think having that clear org chart, and a future org chart is really key for that. But you can see that people start to get position. And then, you know, obviously, we’ve got a recruiter that helps us fill some roles, and it’s great, but it is really expensive. So the more you can do yourself and keep your ear to the ground for those opportunities, the easier

David Dugan
show just on that probably the, you know, the recent data is on it on our tech perspective is it’s actually because even though wages are looking like they’re coming up about in most industries, what we’ve found is the more the more youthful a person is, in the age bracket is it is less about the money than what people think. But it’s more about the opportunity. And it’s more about the ability to serve. And they’re more passionate about the, the you know, like who the people that you’re working with, and the mission are very, very, very much more mission focused. And so that’s the reason why this marketing per team is so important. Because we want to have a place that people go, Oh, I love what they’re doing, I want to be part of that. And it’s not about it’s not just about the dollars. And the reasons, recent studies are saying it’s actually more about the sense of purpose than it is actually the cash.

Ben Nash
And the other. The other side of that is that if you’re paying less, and I get that you do need to pay competitive Lee obviously, but when you find talent, when they are, you know, if you’re paying a slightly lower salary than what they could get somewhere else, then you know, that they’re committed to and behind that brand and vision, which I think is is a really important thing, you know, especially for growing businesses that you do have people that are that are all in as well. Obviously, it saves you a few bucks, but there’s probably more about knowing that you’ve got people that are you know, beyond behind the cause. Dudes, I could and probably will chat to you about this for hours on end. But Mike really appreciate you sharing your insights for people that are keen to learn more about you guys and what you’re about and what you do. What’s the best way for them to learn?

David Dugan
Yeah, right. The best way is going to our website, which is www dot abundance dot global. That’s all it is and products dot global. Go on there, have a look at some of the there’s some great free articles and information on there, some videos and if you want to connect with us, you can connect with us as well. And what I do is I’d be more than happy for anyone in the x y advice community either myself or one of the coaching team. They want to have a quick chat just to go through where they’re at. I’m happy to do that we’ve got some great events that are coming out that go through these things. There could be some great value for someone who’s in that stage of like I’m ready to rock and roll going through our web webpage or alternatively if if someone wants to reach out directly to me if they want to reach out to my email David at abundance dot global just shoot that through and myself or someone saying just organized. We’re gonna have a catch up. So I’m more than happy to help the X Y community.

Ben Nash
I saw Mabel looking forward to those events. I actually heard that you’ve got a celebrity panel on one of them so I’ll be eagerly eagerly await but they thank you again really appreciate you sharing your insights and especially after a 1am Wake up for your tech conference mate. Thanks. Thanks again and we’ll catch on the next one.

David Dugan
Too easy. Beautiful. Thanks, Ben. Thanks XY family.