The Insurance Industry in Singapore with R Kumaran – Transcript

Gwen Lazarito
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the financial planners, South East Asia podcast, when here and today I am with R Kumaran. He is an MDRT coach, and the CEO of the insurance collective that is based in Singapore, but is available worldwide. So we will talk about that later on as we progress to the podcast. But first, thank you so much for coming in. Come on. It’s very wonderful to have you here in the podcast.

R Kumaran
My pleasure, Gwen, thank you so much for having me on board. And I’m so excited to get on board this with you. It’s such a honor and pleasure to connect with you in x y advisors. So yep, it’s going to be quite a fun session, I presume?

Gwen Lazarito
Oh, yes, definitely. Especially because we are actually talking about are going to talk about a very interesting topic. But before that, before we dive into our main topic for today, I just want our listeners to get to know you more. So come on, how did you get into the financial advice industry in the first place?

R Kumaran
Ah, that’s that’s a we have to go back a long way for that. A long way. So I’ve been in the industry for 15 years starting off by Korea with Prudential Singapore. And but my experience into the insurance industry rather, my exposure started way back in 1987. So that’s why I said way back because my mom has been a financial consultant and an agency leader for over 30 years. Wow. And that was my first taste of insurance.

Gwen Lazarito
So how did it feel like like having a mom who is a financial advisor, I’m sure she’s given you like financial advice ever since you’re young.

R Kumaran
That’s quite the contrary, you know, being a second generation advisor, you tend to watch and you’ll learn as you go, ah, through my experiences, and if I might share something that happened way back when she used to have a meetings or appointments with clients. And back then we didn’t have the luxury of babysitters or helps, right? So she would bring me along for her meetings and appointments and put me by the side and said Sunday quiet for a second. Mom’s going to attend to a meeting and I just used to watch her the way she would would connect with her clients the way she would work with her tone. Every single modulation was something that I learned on the job, right, while following her and accompanying her for such appointments and meetings. So yeah, that’s exactly how my first foray into the insurance industry, or more or less my love for the insurance industry came into play. So I joined 15 years ago. Yeah.

Gwen Lazarito
Wonderful. And so 15 years, you’ve been in the industry for such a long time. But so you started as a an insurance advisor, am I am I right?

R Kumaran
That’s right. That’s right. So I started as an insurance advisor moving on to an agency leader. And that’s when I had this sort of a paradigm shift in the way of youth, the insurance industry, especially here in Singapore, I felt that there was a lot more things that could be done for the financial consultants or insurance advisors, as we call them here. And change the perspective of how they were viewed by their clients and the public at large.

Gwen Lazarito
All right, so here in the Philippines, especially in the olden times insurance advisors were viewed as a salesman, product pressures. Is that the same in Singapore as well?

R Kumaran
Yes, absolutely. When I think we have, especially in Asia that has been that sort of a taboo industry to get into. Yeah, and that was key because the way insurance was perceived 20 years ago, 25 years ago, is very much the way wills are perceived wills and trusts. It’s always at mindset that it is a taboo topic, something that we will not talk about, or people do not have that much of knowledge or experience on the benefits of insurance. So yes, you’re right, in Singapore as well. And most parts of Asia when we connect with the financial advisors, back then that was the story, but I think things have changed tremendously, especially over the past couple of years. Yeah,

Gwen Lazarito
that’s right. And yeah, I just I wanted to, I guess, highlight that that there has been a real shift in the perspective on how people have You’d insurance and I think especially in Singapore, like I’ve heard about this from friends of mine, who have come to Singapore to work that Singaporeans actually place a very high value on insurance, and that has helped you guys become like a better economic powerhouse in Southeast Asia.

R Kumaran
Yep, that’s true to gun. The Singapore government takes a lot of steps to initiate campaigns as well as as promotion to put out to the public to tell them that, hey, you know, insurance is part and parcel of our lives. It is a very key part of our financial portfolio. And hence, there is a lot of activity, there is a lot of hype, which goes about the importance of insurance. And, and the very interesting thing is also the yardstick that they put out the insurance bodies and the organization’s mes, which is the governing authority in Singapore Monetary Authority of Singapore, have placed a lot of importance on the value of insurance in the Singaporeans as well.

Gwen Lazarito
Wonderful, that’s good to hear that the government is really supporting that. And which brings me to something that you mentioned that you had a paradigm shift in terms of, or as you got, like more into the industry as you delve more into the industry. And as I mentioned in your introduction, you’re the CEO of the insurance collective. So can you tell us more about the insurance collective? And I’m sure it has something to do with your paradigm shift?

R Kumaran
Absolutely, Gwen, first, let me tell you that, that paradigm shift happened just a tad bit before the whole COVID situation. It’s all of us around the world. And it was actually a pretty bittersweet story for this to take shape. My thought process, even when I was an advisor, was that financial advisors, insurance consultants, even the agency leaders, and insurance in totality was viewed as a taboo topic that we spoke about earlier. And this was because of the perception of the public that we were just salespeople. And I thought, Look, you know, there are many professionals, we have doctors, lawyers, engineers, and everyone who has spent so much of time and effort and energy in their respective fields, to be called professionals. And likewise, in the insurance industry, people who have been practicing it for years, have been in the industry for decades, or those who have been triggered to join the industry to deserve such a recognition. They too deserve to be elevated to a position where people’s finances, people’s financial matters, medical matters, even for that matter, are all taken into the context. And it’s the financial consultant insurance advisor. Who is there with them throughout the entire process? Yeah. So that pretty much triggered a very interesting thought process where, Look, why don’t we create a community of financial consultants, agency leaders, right up to the corporate comms departments, learning and development departments on creating a cross border community of financial consultants, right, where we can break the borders, come on board, a collaborative community, so that everyone can work together, learn together, build on solutions together as well. Yeah, so that was the key start of the insurance collective. Initially, the insurance collective was just meant to be an academy. It’s a learning platform for everyone. And that was the reason to capture the voice of these industry professionals, be it financial consultants, or agency leaders, pioneers that would call them people who have dedicated their life to this industry, to capture the knowledge to capture their skills, their thoughts, and project them to the insurance community at large. So that was the initial thought process of the insurance collective. Over the year we have built on more listening from our financial consultants across the region from Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and even the Philippines as well, where we have a lot of connections with financial consultants and leaders, that let’s look at building a much better platform where we could have coaching and mentoring as part of the process as well. Right to look at a much more deeper analytical view of what advisors or leaders really want. What could they do better in this industry are how could they propel themselves to a different level, using branding, using events and right up to methods of leads acquisition, which is a very core part of the business as well into a very different platform where it becomes personalized. It becomes customized for each advisor and agency leader depending on what they would want to do what their niche markets are, and at which stage they are in the insurance career as well. So that is the insurance collective pretty much going deep into diagnostics, understanding the community and descending the advisor and the agency leader as people first. And then moving into business people in the insurance industry moving into then coaching and mentoring to guide them towards your goals be MDRT, or company centric awards are incentives, right up to moving them up to the part of leadership. And thereby partnering with them across the way, as I mentioned, with the three key avenues of branding events and leads, which have to be insurance centric, to that contract. Yeah. So that’s how the insurance collective came to birth. And we are pretty much on track right now to reach a wider target audience at this stage.

Gwen Lazarito
Wonderful. And yeah, we actually talked about this, before we started recording that you are actually relaunching the insurance collective today. So I wanted to ask, what are some of the things are the new features that you’ve added into help more of the, like insurance advisors? With regards to what you’re doing now? Yes,

R Kumaran
thank you, grandfather for talking about that one. So that has been a project in the making for the past six months, to be honest with you. While the insurance collective was launched, quite some time back, it started off with the academies I mentioned, where we have coaches and mentors, life coaches, business coaches, motivational speakers, the current model that we are relaunching, it’s based on something called the insurance business Canvas. So it’s a diagnostic tool, where we get to understand the personality and the psyche of the advisor or the agency leader. And it starts off with a few questions such as the narrative, what is the narrative of let’s say, Green, who has been a financial advisor for 10 years, or 15 years, or 20 years, or even a rookie advisor who’s been in the business for a year, we want to dive deep and understand why they got into the industry. Right. And thereafter, we go into the narrative of how that individual is whoever they are, as a financial practitioner, as a change maker in the insurance industry. So these are very interesting questions that we elicit working one on one, with the advisors and leaders moving into a much more key Avenue such as who the key partners are in the insurance industry. What are their objectives? What are their key goals and targets? What are the expenses in the insurance industry and what things they would like to improve? So it becomes the foundations of their business plan, or, or a business journal more or less for them specific to the insurance industry or where they are in the industry as well,

Gwen Lazarito
right. And I really wanted to ask that and highlight that in this podcast, because I think it is really helpful, because let’s face it, no matter how progressive, the insurance industry is in a particular country. So in this case, in Singapore, their advisors or people in the industry are still facing a few challenges. And I guess I wanted to highlight that as well. So I know that the insurance Collective is working very hard to address those concerns, but may ask, like, what are some of the major concerns or? Or before I asked that, I guess, what is the insurance atmosphere? I guess that was my first question. We are what like, what is the atmosphere of the, like the insurance industry in Singapore currently?

R Kumaran
Well, Singapore is a very highly regulated country, in terms of finance, as I mentioned, and insurance is a very regulated industry here in Singapore. And we have many, there are many issues that advisors face. And perhaps I could just draw out a few from my experiences, both as an advisor, as well as with the advisors that we’ve been speaking to over the past few months. Yeah. One of the key things that these guys are facing is actually the ability to brand themselves, right, we have almost 20 over 1000 financial consultants and agency leaders here in Singapore. And you know, there is that absolute need for them to to define their their niche to define themselves as advisors or agency leaders to set themselves apart. And that’s a core question here. How do they do that? How do they create that representation that sets them apart from their peers or from their competitors or whatnot? Right. So that is one key issue that the financial consultants here in Singapore face, the branding of themselves, right. And another interesting part that they also face is the acquisition of new clients. That is key. We are still a small country, a small city state, right and there is that much of insurance that can be sold. So it’s always an interesting thing for them to look at how do we acquire more clients, but the way the insurance collective looks at it is to dive deep back into your own existing business. And look at that in a very different perspective and look at that with a fresh set of eyes. And that’s what we’re here for, for the insurance collective to aid the advisors and the agency leaders to look at your business reexamine demystify all these corners in areas that they might not have thought about, and work with them as coaches and mentors throughout the process. So I would say the two biggest challenges would be the branding of their themselves as financial consultants and their business as well as the acquisition of new leads. Those are the key issues that financial consultants I think face here in Singapore.

Gwen Lazarito
Right. And that’s really true. Because as there are a lot of people in the industry that’s working as insurance advisors already, and although it’s not really a problem of running out of people to serve, but it’s more on how can you stand out so that you can service the people that you actually want to serve? To serve your niche? Right? Is it the same in in Singapore where some insurance advisors would want to work with a particular client or a particular age group?

R Kumaran
Yes, that’s so true, grim. So I’ll just bring out a recent case study and a session that we had with an advisor. So again, you see that the key parts of the business, Canvas insurance, business Canvas is diagnostic. When you end up sitting one on one with a person, and having about an hour of conversations with them, you sort of elicit information that otherwise they will not share? Yeah. So an example would be this wonderful lady who was with one of the companies here in Singapore, and she is actually getting married in December. So we connected in October 1, and she was looking at Oh, God, Kumaran. It’s so tough to get married during the COVID. situation. Yes, things are way more expensive. And as a bright to be there are so many things I have to think about in setting my wedding planning in order, and how I wish I planned for this in advance. And I told her Look, isn’t this the particular niche that you should be working with, you know, people, young couples, who are looking to get married people within her database of clients or prospects, who would look at possibly getting married during these COVID situations who already have gotten married, and share the experiences and understand the finances that go into planning a wedding during such tough times. Right? And to be that beacon of hope, or at least a beacon of knowledge that will enable these people to have a peace of mind during this process.

Gwen Lazarito
Right? Oh, so perfect. changes the

R Kumaran
momentum of it all. And she’s like, Aha, yes. How do I do that then? And it’s, it’s very much personal to her. I said, Hey, look, you have gone through this process, you are going through it, you know how much it costs, then why don’t you create a community or create your own affiliations and partnerships with bridal salons with other vendors who are part of the entire process photographers, food vendors, event partners, event planners, wedding planners, this creates a very unique community for you that enables you to go out and brand yourself to your target clients. And these people could be from the age of their late 20s, all the way till the 30s. Yeah. already defined a gap in that process.

Gwen Lazarito
Let’s so I can really relate to this story, because I just recently got married. I got married last March. Yeah, and, and it’s so true that it’s very easy to tap into that. Because after I got married, I actually received a lot of questions from a lot of my like female, even male friends who are planning to get married during these times. So yes, definitely, it’s easier to market to those who experience especially if you’ve already experienced it, and especially if people already know that you’ve been through this. So you’re kind of like an expert, and that elevates you from like the rest of your peers as a an insurance advisor even so, yes. And I guess the the good thing about this is that you’re able to point that out to an insurance advisor and she may not have thought of that herself or if she might have thought of that. Then it might have been too late who would have thought of it like years later Oh, I should have done that. And so I guess the insurance collective provides like a fresh set of eyes and in depth coaching on full Financial or I’m sorry, insurance advisors in Singapore, but I’m just saying Singapore, but I did you did mention before we started recording that the insurance Collective is available for fight insurance advisors outside.

R Kumaran
Right? That’s right. And it’s on that same narrative. Grant. Yes, we are also working with advisors in Malaysia. Indonesia, as I mentioned, a Vietnam Cambodia, as well as the Philippines which which is, which is very interesting, because it gives us the ability to connect the dots for these advisors across the body when the agency leaders right up to the corporate comms, yeah, the these people view the the connection of the insurance collective as something which is relevant, yet it is very unique country to country. And that’s an important thing for us to look at. And as you highlighted earlier, the advisor that I mentioned earlier, by getting on with a one on one session with her, she might have realized it, yes, somewhere down line. But the key point is that she was able to express it. And that’s that she had the opportunity to, to have a listening ear to run through what her thought processes were. And what we do beyond anything else is to connect it for her and build the entire ecosystem for her to follow through and follow up with, because an idea of just an idea, I could have that chat with her. And it will not come to fruition, my role is to ensure that it comes to fruition as well. All right, yeah. Interestingly, granted by my head when we talk about different countries, and as I said, you know, we have to adapt to the the needs or adapt to the insurance environment, in each country, and especially countries like Cambodia, for example, where we speak with a lot of these business development managers from the bigger companies, right up to the agency heads. And we always understand that there is a problem solution for everything. And we need to work with them one on one, and then work with the complete agency force in understanding what each cluster needs. So a province would have a very different need, versus another province. And the advisors would have a very different niche. Some would be focusing on bancassurance, for example, while the others are focusing on employee benefits. So it’s a very unique problem statement, each city we go to, or even right up to each advisor that we work with. It’s such a interesting and dynamic day for us on a daily basis, on a weekly basis as well. So yeah,

Gwen Lazarito
yeah. And it’s so exciting, because you get to listen to different stories. And I remember one financial advisor told me that it’s so not only refreshing, but really, I guess, informative in a way to hear other people’s stories, and see how you can actually become a forefront in in unfolding a better solution for them. And it’s never like, it’s never like a one size fits all. And that’s kind of exciting, too.

R Kumaran
It’s never a one size fits all. And trust me. It’s so dynamic. Yeah.

Gwen Lazarito
And especially that you’re not only working for Singaporeans, you’re also working for other countries as well. And that makes it you know, you can you can find the solution from one country and apply it to another country. Am I right? Like, is that something that is you guys do?

R Kumaran
Oh, so that’s, that’s a bit interesting. So when we look at certain countries in the demographics, as well as the as the mindset of the advisors, it is so drastically different To be honest, when you would have advisors from country A, who are much more open and receptive to social media and branding. While you might have another advisor group of advisors, another country, who feel that they would want to still go through the traditional route of working with their clients. So you would have to have a mix of both. So when solutions are presented to them, it’s always an opportunity for them to try something new first, while still think sticking to the, to the old ideals or the old principles of things, but embracing something new as we go by. So we could bring something which is very successful in another country, but it might not work in another. Right. So it’s that fine line, that tipping point that we have to look at when we work with people from our advisors or even agency leaders, business development managers from different countries. It’s a very unique proposition each time.

Gwen Lazarito
Oh, that’s so cool. And oh, and yes, I agree. Because I think we’ve have talked about this before that some people are, like you said, are very open to some of the things that like social media or even like video presentations, and some would really prefer like the face to face conversations and even paperwork. So you really have to pick and choose what works best for each and every insurance advisor. And we talked about this that not only are you guys catering to the financial side, or the business side of, I guess, insurance, you’re also catering to the mental health and well being of your, your clients. Yes, their clients.

R Kumaran
That’s right. That’s right. That’s actually a very big part of what we do as well going. And that’s the key starting point, the academy. That’s how it all came into fruition. Right. And, and the backstory of that was that we felt, me and my team, as well as all the initial pilot group of advisors that we worked with, looked at ourselves, and we decided, Hey, guys, why don’t we just look at us as human beings, do financial consultants, agency leaders, right up to the corporate comms anyone in the insurance industry, yet we too are human beings. And a lot of effort has been placed on the well being of clients. And it’s about time that we took a step back and looked at how we could take care of the mental wellness of our advisors on the main pillars of their mindset, their soul, their heart, right up to their fitness. And this was a very key part of the insurance collective, to look at how we could bring in life coaches, business coaches, motivational speakers, career coaches, even fitness trainers and nutritionists. So that the advice is to have something on the go, they can connect with that they can bring themselves back to their homes, and connect with their families about this as well. It’s not just about chasing the cases, or chasing the the premiums, or chasing clients or chasing business, it’s also looking at protecting themselves as individuals as person as as a mother, as a son, as a father, as a brother as a daughter day to play these different roles. So so the collective felt that we should have these four pillars anchored on the spiritual context, the emotional context, the intellectual context, and right up to the physical prime of the the activity as well. So that’s where we brought in 12, very wonderful, beautiful coaches, who would then support the advisors in their process. And the great part, as you highlighted earlier, the financial advisors and agency leaders can now connect with their clients with things beyond insurance. And that’s a much better way to work with a simple example would be with one of our coaches on the insurance Academy, where she is a mindfulness and wellness trainer. And she shares tips, and she shares in her sessions with our advisors about how they could connect with your teenage children in a much more better perspective. Right. And when this came to was my role here is to condense it into how the advisors can share the content with their own clients who have teenage children.

Gwen Lazarito
Yeah, and that that is very good, because I have an incoming teenager and I do not know what to do. It is one of my fears to get through the teenage years of your child’s and I would really appreciate for someone to be there in order to support me with that because it does take up mental like headspace. And it can even hinder you to working effectively as as an insurance advisor as a financial advisor. But it’s wonderful that they can translate what they’ve learned through that coaching session into how they can help their existing and future clients with that part of the problem as well so that their clients can be more effective in what in what they do too. And that provides a lot more value. As someone who is in their clients side right now, they’re not just insurance advisors, they’re also coaches. And and so what I guess my question for that now is, are Singaporeans talking freely about it, especially in the insurance industry? Are they talking openly about their mental health? Or is it something that you also have to coax out of them from coaching sessions?

R Kumaran
No, I think it is a lot. It’s become a lot more Oh, In these few years, to be honest with you, when prior to this pandemic, people were still restrictive about what they would talk about, especially the the mental states of mine, or the physical state of mind. In the past couple of years, we have seen a lot of advisors actually reach out for help reach out to connect with people, and it’s not necessarily help, and would say that they need some time to speak about themselves. Yes, yes, like a hand. That’s what is missing in that context. You know, they spend so much of time speaking about solutions about about products about crafting a plan for someone else. But they don’t take the time to craft to speak about themselves, who is, say, for example, John Doe, and what does John Doe love to do? What does he love to do on his weekend is or what does he do when he wakes up in the morning? Or what would he love to achieve, and that is where we have to elicit these details out of them. And it can only come through conversation. And these conversations are very special, because when when they speak more, they they tend to have an identity which is cleared up. It’s a block that they have been facing either in their personal or professional lives. And it’s our role. It’s my role, to be honest with you. And I’m very honored and blessed to have the role to speak to these individuals to understand their their concerns to understand where they are coming from and where they intend to go. And sometimes it’s all just about someone to listen to someone who will listen to your issues. So that’s as simple as that. But it’s very profound.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes. And I think it’s very important and something that needs to be to, to be come a forefront of conversations amongst not just insurance advisors, and in amongst themselves, but also from insurance advisors to ours, their clients, because it’s one of the main issues that we’ve seen, that have sprouted up during the pandemic, right. So I guess, even how sad the outcome of the pandemic was, there was still something good that came out of it, because a lot of we had to realize a lot of stuff about ourselves and about our communities, which we are now talking about. And I guess, Oh, right. This is a, I think a question that would be good to ask is, like, how is the insurance industry after the pandemic hit?

R Kumaran
Well, we have seen quite a growth of the insurance business here in Singapore, to be honest, that it has been very sustainable, there has been good positive growth. And again, I guess it comes to the point where people suddenly feel the need to be protected, much more than they ever did before. And that has created a very good flow of business for the insurance advisors here. So the insurance companies here in the industry in total. So yes, we have seen a upswing in the insurance business.

Gwen Lazarito
Yeah. And new insurance advisors coming in New Young Bloods in turn.

R Kumaran
Ah, yes, yes. Which is a very interesting, lots of people to be honest with you. And it’s so fun to work with these group of individuals, especially the young ones, for them to come into this industry, one would think that they are forced to get into this industry. Yeah. And it’s not entirely true. I’ve heard of, I’ve heard of personally, and he’s spoken to a few personally who have been triggered to join the industry due to a tragedy.

Gwen Lazarito
Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, I would actually ask about that, because there was a surge in the number of financial advisors and insurance advisors who have started their careers in, in the industry here in the Philippines, as well. And most of them is because of, as you said, a tragedy or not even a tragedy, but like an, like a, an awakening, if you say with that life, maybe is too short. That’s true, but there is a lot that you can do about it, in order for yourself to gain peace of mind. So yeah, yes. And to be able to help other people find that peace of mind is actually a very noble cause. So yeah, and that’s very promising for the industry to see that there are new people realizing the value of insurance and financial planning, and how they can help other people find that too. So I guess my final question for you before we end the show, Kumaran is what would your advice be? Since you’ve been in the industry for 50? for 10 years now what what would? What would you say to budding insurance advisors who are new to the industry? Or are just still thinking about starting in the industry?

R Kumaran
Oh, well, you know, I would always draw reference to a couple of terms that I have been acquainted with for all these years. It’s actually can it’s called Kensho and Satori. So this is a Zen Japanese term, or Zen Japanese concept, which has been around for 1000s of years, to be honest. So I’ve just explained that in the context that advisors of future advisors might understand. So can show up a certain moments in life, which is a gradual unpeeling. Right. So for advisors who are new into the industry, there would be many events, circumstances that would gradually shape them towards understanding the purpose of vision in the insurance business. It doesn’t happen overnight for everyone, it takes some time, pioneers in the insurance industry have spent 20 years or 25 years before knowing the true value of what they bring to the industry. Right. So I would, I would suggest that they embrace it, they understand the process, yes, but to go through the process without giving up at any one point of time. And then there is the extreme of it all, which is Satori. And that’s a aha moment, you just suddenly wake up and you figure out your purpose in life, whether it’s in the insurance industry, or any other industry, to understand that their value that they bring is is magnificent to the people that they serve. And every advisor, I think in their lives, future advisors would go through this process of a gradual unfolding of themselves as people as professionals, which is the capture moments, and then you would have to Satori moments, which is a aha moment. And that’s it, you can’t look back and change anything else. Because once you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it. So that would be that process to understand this to go through it and, and love every minute of it.

Gwen Lazarito
That’s very sound advice, and so profound. Thank you so much. And all before we end, where can people find you or get to know more about you like if they want to reach out? If they want to be part of the insurance collective? How can they reach?

R Kumaran
Yes, of course you could connect with me on LinkedIn are coumarin. And also our platform is going to be up on Friday, full and running. today. It’s our today’s the official day. But we are thinking that, you know, give ourselves a couple of days and it’ll be all ready for everyone to go through it. It’s the insurance collective.com.sg And I really hope that we can build a strong community together.

Gwen Lazarito
Wonderful. Alright, that’s so awesome. Karn, and thank you so much, again, for coming to the show and sharing all of the wealth and knowledge that you have in the 15 years have been in the industry and also giving us a slice of what the insurance collective can do and will continue to offer for the insurance industry. And not just in Singapore, but in Southeast Asia as well. So again, thank you so much and have a good one.

R Kumaran
My pleasure, Gwen, thank you so much for this opportunity.