Client Values and Goals #2 – Transcript

Episode details

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

client, advisors, meeting, triage, fill, appointment, people, conversation, goals, values, minutes, information, process, link, fraser, email, complete, advice, financial planning, next episode

SPEAKERS

Fraser Jack, Cate Americano, Michael Topper, Craig Buntain, Tim Henry, Naomi Rosenthal

 

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack. And we are up to Episode Two of our six part series where we’re really looking into the process around you know, client values and goals and goals based financial planning. And just working out where are the different aspects and the last episode, we covered off on some of the ideas around the pre engagement and branding of your business with regards to how do we get clients to notice you and understand what it is that you do? In this episode, we really want to get into the idea of how to engage with your clients once their clients have approached you or you’ve had some sort of contact with him in some way. And really just how are you going to start working with your clients. So we’re gonna get into a bit more practical type stuff in that and we welcome back to this episode. Naomi, good, Amy.

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Hi, Fraser. Thanks for having me on

 

Fraser Jack 

again. Fantastic. And tell us about your business around how you then, you know, once once in clients engage, you know, what’s your, what’s your process? Do you sort of do a pre call? Or how do you how do you first talk to your client or a new client?

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Thanks, Fraser. Um, look, I think it depends on how the client has come to us. But in general, we might Yeah, we’ll have a bit of a pre engagement conversation, just a very short one, just to get a sense of who that person is, where they’re at, and whether or not we will be able to help them because we’re not all things to all people we’re rather specific in in who we want to be working with. And then once we get an idea of that, we then have a more formal meeting with that client. And before that meeting actually happens, which really is the conversations around the goals and understanding their situation, we will send to them some homework, we’ll get them to complete some information for us. Just around what you know what their situation is.

 

Fraser Jack 

Do you call that homework? Like? I mean, I mean, I’m assuming that the pre meet their first meeting, you sort of sort of talked about them a little bit about them their situation, do a bit of triage, let them know that you’re able to help them that way? If not, and then and then you they agree, obviously, they might, you might talk about your you know, how you’re structured or your fees or whatever it might be, and then they and then they sort of, you know, say yes, let’s go to the next level. And then you send them some highway and how do they How do they react to that?

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Oh, well, hopefully positively. I do. Depending on the client, will depend on whether I actually use the term homework, but I tend to like that phrase, because people can relate to it, you know, if they’ve got kids that are, you know, coming home from school with stuff to do. Yeah, they they acknowledge that it’s something that is their responsibility that they have to do before they would meet with me. I don’t use that term all the time. But depending on the client, the younger clients I tend to use that with, and it goes down well, because then, you know, they’re like, Oh, yeah, I’ve got to get this done for Naomi, before we meet,

 

Fraser Jack 

do you think this sets up a, like a professional relationship as well, it sort of sets the tone for, you know, this is a professional relationship. It’s not just, you know, a friendly chat, I guess, maybe?

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

I hope so. Yeah, I think that you know, as much as you want to have a friendly conversation and have a friendship with your clients, it is very much a professional relationship in that I’m the expert, and I’m here to guide you and advise you, and show you the path that you’re perhaps struggling to find on your own. So yeah, for them having to do something, you know, in a quite a formal way because it’s a structured set of questions and it’s a very structured way of providing information to us. Definitely puts us in that position of a professional relationship.

 

Fraser Jack 

And so you’re sending out the the questions and then you’re also getting them to go and go and find all their old super statements and do all that sort of stuff, I guess.

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Definitely. And Look, I did this the other day with somebody. And she had already provided me with a background. So I knew there was a fair amount of information there and I sent her. The question is saying it shouldn’t take you more than 2030 minutes. And when we then when we got into the conversation around her situation, she’s like, you know, Naomi, it actually took me quite a bit longer to put all that information to you. Because I had to go and look for stuff. And I apologize to her. I said, Look, if you had it all with you, it would take 20 to 30 minutes. But I acknowledge that if you do need to search for things that will take a little bit longer to complete.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s kind of that’s also kind of why people need you, right? Because they it’s not all in one place.

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Yeah. And I think that, yeah, once we get all that information, and all that data, it suddenly becomes all in one place. And it’s a really good storehouse for that information. And because we are in an ongoing relationship with gathering that stuff on an on an annual basis. And so it is always a place where they can now go to say, well, Naomi’s got all my information. If I’m ever missing anything, I can go there. It’s a similar process, I think in terms of data collection that any mortgage broker would ask for as well.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Yep. Fair enough. So So how long do you think that would take most of your clients? I know, you sort of mentioned 30 minutes. But is that is that realistic?

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Look, I think it depends on the clients for some Yes, you know, we’re not. And because it doesn’t have to be specific. It can just be estimates. So if people have an idea already, all their information, they like, Oh, yeah, I’ve got about 200 grand in my Superfund or whatever it might be, you know, it can be as simple as that. So, you know, depending on how detail oriented the client is, yeah, if they want to put down their member number, and if they want to give the exact dollar figure to where their things are at at the moment, then yes, it will take longer. And yeah, probably about an hour if you really wanted to go into all your banking and put down your bank account details. But generally, most people don’t, in the first instance, want to offer up that level of detail to you until there’s a significant level of trust in the relationship. So most people are much broader around answering those questions. And you’ll find that it’ll take 30 minutes,

 

Fraser Jack 

from a practical point of view, are you doing that? Or are you got your admin staff doing it,

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

it’s an email that goes out with a link to a program, and then the client then will just tap in and fill in all their details. So it takes me two minutes, if that to get that email out. And I personalize it. So it’s my preference to do that. But yeah, I could easily pass that to one other team to send out to the client,

 

Fraser Jack 

I think it makes sense based on the conversation you’ve just had. And then after that, what do you do with the information when you get it back? At what processes in your business where you sit down and review that before the client comes in?

 

Naomi Rosenthal 

Well, yeah, it’s just up to the advisor, I think to have a look through that information, get a feel for, you know, where things are at for them before that initial conversation with the client, which really is an exploration of the goals and objectives that they have more so because once we’ve got the data, we don’t necessarily need to talk about, you know, well, how much is your house worth? And how much have you got it? We’ve got that information. So the initial conversation really is all about the client. What where are they at? And where do they want to be? And we’re asking much more exploratory goal, goal questions and objective questions. Fantastic. And

 

Fraser Jack 

in the next episode, we will get right into that we will tackle the idea of what you’re doing during that discovery meeting process. So we will see you in the next episode of this, this series. Thanks for thanks for joining me again, Craig Ballantyne. Welcome back.

 

Craig Buntain 

Thanks, Fraser. Good to see you again.

 

Fraser Jack 

Thank you. Now we’re talking about the idea around the concept of engaging clients. In this particular episode, we’re looking at how, you know, working with clients and gauging them once once they’ve come in the door, essentially, and we’ve started to get to know them, and we’re really starting to look a process of or maybe they’ve, maybe you’ve done the triage call, I should just go back a little step because you mentioned the last episode that we did a triage call. Tell me about that triage call that conversation?

 

Craig Buntain 

Yeah, so we have effectively as a very loose script for a triage call, which is all about why they’ve made the call to a financial planner or the appointment if they’ve made an appointment directly from an online link or something. And what what they are seeking and effectively, quite often the first answer you get for that is product related. The thing we then do is try to find out the actual reasoning behind why they want that super product or why Whatever it is that they’ve, they’ve said in the end, the idea is we’re trying to start extrapolating their goals and objectives and what what they’re actually looking for, you know, what a great result would be for them in that first call and to see whether that matches up with the services that we provide to our clients.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yep. That’s a really interesting way of looking at because you’re right, if you ask that question, what do you what are you looking forward to? Often product comes out? Because I think a lot of people think that they need to start there.

 

Craig Buntain 

Yeah, that’s right. I mean, that’s the that’s generally what’s in the news. When it comes to financial planning. And you know, the statements that they see that come through, they’re all product related. There’s there’s nothing that talks about objectives or goals or where you want to be or how you want to live in future.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I’m sure this is the bane of all doctor’s existence, right? You will be walking in saying, I’ve got a cold I need I need blah, blah, blah. Yeah, more. I’ve got this. I need. I need that. And they go hang on a minute. Let’s go back. That’s right. Yeah, yeah. Yes, that start looking into the substance. So how, how do you then? So you’ve done the triage call, you probably talk about your yourself and that you know, how you do things, and you know, what your structure might be? And then after that, what’s your process?

 

Craig Buntain 

Yeah, well, so in the latter part of that triage call, once we’ve decided that we want them to be a client as we tell them the process. From here on, and it’s kind of, as we spoke about in the last episode, it this is how we do things around here, conversation, and we explained to them that we’re going to send them out some online links, we shoot them effectively, to questionnaires. And those questionnaire is designed basically to get enough information so that you can hold a very good first meeting without having to spend that first meeting, just collecting information. So the idea being is the first questionnaire is kind of their view on their overall situation. It’s such a good questionnaire, I believe it’s been replicated recently. We’ve got a second questionnaire, and then we just kind of a mini fact find. And it has quite a number of fields. So they can fill in almost a full fact find from that questionnaire, but depending on how that common conversation goes in the triage call as to what they’re actually after, we direct them as to the most important fields to put in. I mean, occasionally, you get clients who don’t know you from a bar soap, so they’re reluctant to put everything in, in a document prior to even having a meeting with you. So we just tell them what what the important things are. And that, you know, we really need to know this so we can have a quality first meeting.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Now this is a really important point that you’re raising around the concept of what goes on in a client’s mind when they’re sent a link to, you know, put a whole lot of personal private companies information in. When you were you’ve just really had a triage phone call with him? How do you you know, you set that up? You know, what do you say to to clients that might you might think of sound a bit hesitant to go on and fill it out? Or let’s say they haven’t filled it out immediately or taken some time?

 

Craig Buntain 

Yeah, look, well, our process is fill it out, or you don’t get an appointment effectively. So we we do explain that kind of in a softly softly approach. But we do explain that all the data is private and confidential. So they’ve got our privacy details on it, the link that we send them as a URL FSG and our privacy information on it. So we just tell them that we’re, you know, bound to keep it secret by law. And that, you know, it won’t go any further than then asked, but, you know, if I were to wait until 20 minutes into a meeting, when we’ve established a really good rapport, which I’m trying to do over that triage call as well. So that first meeting, we can kind of get down to business, you know, if we, if we wait 20 minutes before they decide to give us any information. We’ve just wasted. a fair bit of both of our times.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yep, yep. So so it’s really important that the bait they fill out, they get to it. So just going back over that with a client, then if they don’t, if they’re not filling it out, or they’re not doing it in time, do you just ring them up and say, Hi, you have a stack on something?

 

Craig Buntain 

Yes, exactly. So we have a part of our processes 48 hours out from the appointment if they haven’t, or two business days. If they haven’t completed it, we do give them a call with a reminder that they need to complete it and just offer them the opportunity either completed within the next day or reschedule their appointment.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, cuz it’s really interesting when, you know, as humans, we all have stuff to do. But sometimes, sometimes we do wait to the end of the deadline and now is the priority. So that’s a really good that’s a really interesting part of the process. Right? That Call that says, hey, we might have to reschedule the meeting because you haven’t done this then prompts them to go right, I actually need to go and fill that in, right?

 

Craig Buntain 

I mean, they get an email a week out from the meeting, because we tend to make our appointments about two weeks away. You know, they get an email One week later, as a reminder, and then they get the phone call two business days.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. And then and then what, what do you do, then you go in and have a look at the information and start formulating what you think might be the?

 

Craig Buntain 

Yeah, that’s exactly right. So the, the next step is effectively looking at the client and seeing what sort of strategies I think I’m going to be able to implement on the basis of the information they’ve given us. But the key to it is one of the detailed aspects. In the fact fine that we’re sending them to that we asked them to pay the most attention to is the objectives tab. And so that’s their goal. So the idea is looking at, at that fight what’s called the five minute health check, which is their gauge on where they are in the six areas of advice that we use, and then determining where they think they need help. Now we’ve got some of that written down from the triage call. But it’s interesting to have a look at the results that come out of that compared to the triage call. And then also looking at their information that they’ve filled in, including the goals to find out whether we agree, you know, are the areas that they think they’re strong in? Are they actually strong in them? Or do they need some reviewing there as well. And particularly, depending on the goal, so sometimes the filling in the goals, they do generally after the five minute health check, and once they start filling in the goals, they start thinking of extra things. And then you could probably actually think if you sent them the five minute health check, like another 20 minutes later, it might be a completely different at school.

 

Fraser Jack  

Yeah, yeah, it’s probably probably a different conversation that that’s why this is I think, as a starting conversation for your discovery meeting, as opposed to the the, you know, the be all and end all because I will come to the discovery meeting, which we’ll get to in the next episode, and start spouting out all the things that they didn’t quite complete on the form

 

Craig Buntain 

that yeah, that’s exactly right. So you can you can also tell what you’re going to be dealing with why What’s missing?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Fantastic, Greg, thanks for catching up today. We will catch you in the next episode.

 

Craig Buntain 

Okay. Excellent. Thanks, Fraser.

 

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the show. Kate Americana. Welcome.

 

Cate Americano 

Thank you. Thanks, Grayson. Lovely to be back.

 

Fraser Jack 

Thank you for joining us in this part, part two of the series where we start talking about actually engaging clients and how we’re having these, these conversations with them in the process itself. Tell us about what you’ve seen that works really well with some with some different practices that you’ve seen working with in the space, how they first speak to the client, what they do, what their processes,

 

Cate Americano 

yeah, so in terms of introducing, I guess, the values, based advice to the client, it’s about having that conversation and positioning it in terms of the business and the value to them. So and just explaining to them that we take care of, obviously, your assets, but we also take care of you. And so this is about understanding what’s most important to you and to your family, and being able to position your goals around that. And then also be able to make sure that all of the financial side and everything that is linked to the portfolios, and everything is all linked and all congruent. With that, and in alignment. That’s how the advisors I’ve seen that you know, who are doing it really well is the positioning is know about me and my family and know about my assets as to and then linking them really well together.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, so effectively taking, taking the assets and the practical and tangible stuff, and then just saying, well, that’s, that’s one part of the jigsaw puzzle. And the other part is the you you and your emotions and the way that you behave and your and your habits and all the things that are going to affect the financial and money side. But just but just from a, I guess an internal point of view.

 

Cate Americano 

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. They do. So it’s understanding that emotional link between it for sure.

 

Fraser Jack 

And and Do you ever have people say to you look, so people just don’t want to do that. And

 

Cate Americano 

so the clients that I’m coaching know, they’re so and this is probably something what I would say for the financial planners who are yet to embark on this journey of that value space survive. It’s, it was it’s been around a long time. There, there’s not a lot better, they probably indirectly doing it, but there’s they’re not actually doing a real value space device conversation. I would say the majority, you know, like I was chatting to a licensee yesterday and I said in terms of that value, space advice, conversation and helping advisors have that and doing a workshop for them. And I said, are they doing that? And she said no, we’re we are still doing the goals based advice side of that, you know, if we look at the history of where we come from, and then you know, from the product through to the back is to be strategic to goals based advice and tracking. So this is just that really natural progression and moving on. It’s a lovely complement to what they’re already doing well. And the other thing phrase, I would say, is this great, these incredible tools that are kind of hitting the market around all the value space advice and things like that, which is fabulous and really supportive of that. But I’d say to the advisors, you do not need to be, you don’t necessarily need to have all the tech and everything sorted out, you can absolutely, and you don’t need to be a life coach, you do not need to be in an all PE, you don’t have to be a psychologist don’t have to be a therapist. But what you do have to be you have to care, you absolutely have to care. And you have to listen. And you have to know, know how to create a really safe space to hold the client in. Because when you are actually having the conversation around somebodies value, it is so personal to them, and it’s vulnerable. And there’s times I’ve run, you know, there’s many times that clients will cry in those sessions. Because when you actually uncover that a client is in conflict with their values that are most dear to them, and creates that emotional response. So you just need to be out or hold the space, and you don’t have to fix it, you just hold the space and let them become aware of it. And that’s where the real empowerment actually happened. I’ve even run workshops for financial planning practices, and beautiful, you know, brave employees and financial planners have gone through and shared the values. And even in even in that, you know, it was really emotional. But what that actually does in terms of when your values are shared, it builds trust, and it builds collaboration. And it also builds empathy and understanding. So you’re much more patient and tolerant with the people around you and in your workforce. So yeah,

 

Fraser Jack 

this is a really interesting practical thing that advisors can do is to do something like a values workshop with with their employees. And I want to get into that probably a little bit more when we get into the next episode with regard to questioning. But just for now, also, you know, what a plan is doing with the practical? Are they doing the triage meeting, they’re doing the phone call they’re doing the before before the the the goals and values discovery meeting, how they actually what’s the messaging and the the practical solutions that people are? beforehand?

 

Cate Americano 

Yeah. So in terms of that they’re actually going through the process and part of that discovery meeting, or if it’s coming up to the annual review, like all the annual progress meetings, so they’re introducing, so there’s because it’s different, there will be people who are kind of going well, what’s this all about? And so they can interview whether it’s a new discovery, meaning that simple because it’s just part of the process, then. And you can, yeah, you can have a very simple, you can have just a two pager with a values matrix and a value scorecard. I personally would include the wheel of life, because if I’m just those, if they just have those three key tools in their kit that they can roll out as part of the pack that they send out, you know, when they’re sending out, they’re like, Hey, this is our appointment, and this is our review or the review coming up. And by the way, can you update all your, you know, heavy goals change short, medium long term and then adding this thing in? That’s where I, I would absolutely have any advisors incorporating it into their process?

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a very important part, setting the expectations early, getting something out there, you know, doing something that’s replicable, replicable, I should say, I can’t speak probably like, like a PDF or a video or soundbite or whatever might be just explaining what the the new process is likely to be. So that you’re setting some expectations for the end clients coming in?

 

Cate Americano 

How are they Sorry, just one other point on that, if they do send it out in advance, what’s really important is that they if it’s a couple, they need to complete them separately. Right? Don’t don’t get the couple to complete them individually, they need to complete, absolutely be separate in completing them. And then afterwards, they’re more than welcome to share it. But there’s just incredible insight in that. As you can see, when I couple if their values aren’t aligned, that actually causes enormous stress. So as a financial planner, you can actually be able to just have conversation around that. You know, like you’re over here or over here. It’s kind of, so I’m heading to splitsville. But we’re going to be running into trouble. So like, let’s get back on the same page here. So it’s a really, really easy way to have a great, valuable conversation just by bringing awareness to it. No therapy required just awareness.

 

Fraser Jack 

It’s extremely valuable information from the advisors point of view, but just how practically is this able to be done? Because I mean, if you if you’re sending them out something in advance and getting them to complete to me, then it’s very difficult, isn’t it to say did you do this by yourself or with you? Have a couple.

 

Cate Americano 

Yeah, yeah. So will you be able to see because the values or the vehicle, you know, 100%, the same, which is not real, like even I’ve done my values on my husband, I was sitting in front of the football, what should the risk is, I’ve done it for my 10 year old son and my 12 year old son. And I continue to to do those annually write and review them. So whilst we may share three of the same top five values, we won’t ever have the same one. And as you get in alignment with your values, they change each year. So Otherwise, the other option is, if you have 10 minutes before the meeting, if your clients sit and wait 10 or 15 minutes before that meeting, I would give the you know, he go, here’s your cup of tea, and here’s just the values matrix and value scorecard that they can go through and complete their top and then you can actually have the conversation. without, you know, eight, there’s so many different ways that you can incorporate it into the process.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Thank you, Kate, for joining in this part of the conversation we look forward to catching you in the next episode. Thanks, Fraser ceasing. welcome back to this episode, Tim, we’re talking all things around the concept of engaging your client and that process that they go through. They you put them through essentially, once they start to engage your your office.

 

Tim Henry 

How are you going this week?

 

Fraser Jack 

Brilliant, thank you. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for calling in again. It’s been It’s amazing. He’ll tell us about your process in your business. Yeah. So

 

Tim Henry 

when we hear from a client, I will always want to have a phone chat with them. Probably just for 10 or 15 minutes, Max. And that’s simply about guess all I’m really trying to understand is probably the answer to one question is what has motivated them to seek advice. And I think the head alone sets up the basis for what’s going to come next. Because for anyone to track you down, and step up to the plate and make a call or send you an email or log on to your website. There’s got to be some some need there something that’s pressing them to do that. So I think you want to want to uncover that really quickly and start working out. Firstly, can we solve that problem? Because if we can’t, let’s get that out on the table really quickly.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fair enough. So this is the this is the triage question. What drove them? Because you’re right, it is it is an emotional decision there has to there is there was plenty of things, stopping them picking up the phone or reaching out. And there has to be enough motivation behind that?

 

Tim Henry 

Well, I think generally, what you’ll find is this something, there’s an underlying stress or anxiety or problem, that’s got to a point where they’ve said, we need to sort this out. So before we always feel like before I go rambling on about all of the great things we can do, let’s actually hone in on that first thing. Because if we can get out on the table, that we can solve that problem. I think that’s the main thing people are looking for. And then we can go on to what are the things we might be able to do?

 

Fraser Jack 

So they’re very that initial triage? I call it a triage because I think about you know, like, the old days, you know, the war wounds and, you know, a mash episode from way back, that there’s a reference that most people don’t understand is, is the scenario of just that what, you know, what, what is blindingly obvious that needs to be addressed? And is there a time? Is it a time sensitive issue? Is it a redundancy that needs to be acted on to the end of the two year thing, whatever, whatever it is? And if so, you know, obviously, you can take care of that. But then after that, this is our process is a new

 

Tim Henry 

year. So this has been an interesting change in the last couple of years. And technologies probably helped us get there. Because even if I went back three or four years ago, we probably would have, at the end of that 10 minutes wanted to be finding an appointment time. Yeah, I, we now just have a, an email standard email that I tailor, I might just put a couple of personalized lines at the top about our call. But then it just has some FAQs about how we structure our process, plus the Aspire planning approach to financial planning. And in there, that talks a lot about things like you know, living a life well lived, and stuff like that, and what role financial financial element plays in that. So straightaway, they’re getting the flavor of this is what these guys stand for. This is how they want their processes. And then we’ve got a link to book a meeting. And through necessity, with all the compliance stuff that’s been going on, we’ve really had to stretch out meetings now and and leave less openings, which he has, in a weird way has worked in reverse that people are going there’s not many vacancies available, and we’re finding that they’re just so that has really been a change for makers. I think we would have really gone home Getting that appointment. And now I think we’re finding, despite standing back and saying you need to step up to the plate, make the appointment read a little bit about us, they’ve put their toe in the water and put skin in the game. And they’re now committed to what’s gonna come next.

 

Fraser Jack 

This is really interesting. So there’s two, there’s two points I want to unpack here. One is your diet, the structuring of your diary. And the first one before that is getting that information across. You mentioned it’s a written in written text form. Have you ever done anything like a video or anything like that, towards that? Or is it just always been a text?

 

Tim Henry 

It’s always well, at this stage, it’s an email. Yeah, yeah. And only because I wanted to personalize it. So I just found in that instance, I will push that email out pretty quickly to them. With a couple of personalized lines about it was great to chat with you, Fraser. And he wrote about your need for this this nice. He’s a little bit about us. Here’s how to book a meeting. Just for this initial thing. I would think that just you know, someone said to me once, just get the appointment. So that’s what we’re really looking for is let’s not make it over. Over engineering. Yep. Phrases just had a chat is it’s on his mind. Let’s get him to log on and book an appointment this morning, when there’s plenty of time for those discussions later. Yep.

 

Fraser Jack 

So if they jump on your calendar Now, have you set this up in the calendar is a calendly? You use the one? Yeah, if you set this up inside there, where there’s only a few appointments based on that initial appointment link? Or is this something you’ve set up in your diary? diary? Yeah, so

 

Tim Henry 

we only leave client facing times X number of client facing times per week, at at the same times every week.

 

Fraser Jack 

Right? Okay. So inside, you’re really only

 

Tim Henry 

one a day, I think, one one day we allow to

 

Fraser Jack 

write, and the rest of the time you’ve got structured out for I’m internal and

 

Tim Henry 

yeah, and then I might actually with existing clients choose to push someone into the through a conversation, a personal conversation as I will. I’ve got some time I can put in the diary for you. But for people that are coming through that, that lane, why have calendly automatically? Yep, we just left those few vacancies there.

 

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic.

 

Tim Henry 

does start the show. I mean, if you’re a new person, it’s like, you know, these people are busy. I must be good.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fantastic. They’re very good. It’s it does it. And it also says that your time is important. So the next thing is so that if they make that killer, they make that appointment, then priority goes on, obviously in the next episode, we want to get to the idea of what you do in your discovery meeting. But is there anything else that you do prior to them coming into that meeting? Or discovery meeting?

 

Tim Henry 

Yes. So we we send them a lot because we use a system called a street wheel. And they have links, which allow you to gather data. So we then introduce the team, once they make that meeting, we’ve got another communication that’s from Sarah in our team that says, these are all the links for you to input all your data before you come into the meeting. Yeah, and, and because again, this is another thing that’s probably worked in our favor, instead of just letting them say, Oh, we can slot you in on Wednesday. This is now probably a three week waiting period, maybe four. They’ve got lots of time to import that data. So we actually it has improved our data that we’ve got before they even come in. And I’m thinking that some people would leave that to the last minute, no matter how much time you gave them. How are you finding?

 

Fraser Jack 

Are you finding people that actually get doing it? Or there was some some moments where they, you know, nicely?

 

Tim Henry 

nicely, though, I mean, we can see when I put it in, obviously. Yeah, I think you can get a real sense. That’s, that’s the great part as well. So when you get people that do it straightaway, they’re obviously really keen when they’re out and they’re really organized. So it starts in your own head thinking, because we do price everything and we’ll get to that later with repricing it up. Pricing up the word but I think you’re already getting a sense of these people seem like people I want to deal with because they’re organized. They’re sent me the data on time. They’re going to be good to deal with, versus they’re really starting to show chinks in the armor.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Fantastic, Tim, thanks for letting us know your process. Will I will end this episode here but we will catch you again in the next episode when we are talking all things around the discovery meeting. So welcome back to this episode, Michael.

 

Michael Topper 

Thanks very much. How are you, Fraser?

 

Fraser Jack 

I’m very good. Thank you. Thank you for asking. Now, in this episode, we’re talking about the ways that advisors are starting their advice process, often, often with, you know, a triage or a conversation meeting. And then and then moving towards, you know, bringing bringing clients in getting them towards that discovery meeting. What are you seeing out there?

 

Michael Topper 

I think the key thing for advisors and clients is just to make it easy for the client. So the simpler you can make it for the client, and the least amount of time that you take out of the diary, the better. So, you know, if you think about a typical first meeting, and that’s typically where things start telephone call, first meeting, start with a blank fact fund, put the client through the pain of watching, you fill that in for 40 minutes. And at the end of the 40 minutes, what’s in that document I knew before they walked in. So if you want to annoy a client, then do it that way. From a client’s perspective, if you make them realize that it’s really important that they provide you with good information prior to a meeting, because it’s in their best interest. And the best interest is we don’t burn through 40 minutes filling in effect, finding the meeting, because you can fill in some stuff at home for us. And then secondly, if you do provide good information to me two or three days before, that means I can think about your situation and plan for the meeting so that when you do come in, we can hit the ground running and focus on what’s valuable and important. So to do that, you’ve got to do a couple of things. So one is, don’t send them an email with a 50 page fact find PDF, because the chances of you getting that back are pretty remote. And the advisors that start using our tool tell us that they get one in 10 of those back if they’re lucky. So send them something that’s different video, email, a five minute health check. And many fact find that online and short that only takes 10 to 15 minutes. And if you position it to the client, that this is really important that you do this before the meeting, because it’s in your best interest, they’ll do it. And the second part is that if you set an appointment for Friday, in two weeks time, and you get to Wednesday, and they haven’t filled it in, then it’s very simple conversation, let’s call the client or one of your admin people call them and say, Bob, you must be really busy, you haven’t had a chance to fill in those two questionnaires for me. Do you think you can do those tonight and we’ll still meet on Friday, whether that’s face to face or or through zoom? Or would you prefer that we push the meeting back a week so that you can fill it in on the weekend. So the message to the client is fill it in or fill it in, but in a nice way. And quite a few what we found is quite a few advisors started just sending it out and not making it to compulsory and then they were surprised that they’ve got four to six out of 10 back and then well this actually works didn’t think it would I used to get one out of 10, I’m not getting five or six out of 10. Then they’d say, Okay, let’s make sure the client does fill it in by chasing them up. And then some client advisors have got to a point where it’s, if you don’t fill it in, I don’t see you. And that becomes I get rid of tire kickers. So if you can imagine what a client is going to be like, if they went spend five minutes filling in the health Jake and 15 minutes filling in about your questionnaire, what kind of client is that person going to be over the next five years, you might not want them. So that’s that’s what’s working really well in the pre engagement so that you can think about it planned for the meeting hit the ground running in the meeting.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, if I just draw that on for my my point of view, you know, as a human being who you know, gets emails to, to, to, to complete forms or to sign something. I’ve gone really anti the having to, I don’t like printing anymore. I’ve kind of like the anti printer guy, you know, and people send me something like, I don’t want to print it Sorry, can we just do something that’s not a not a fill something else type of thing? When it comes to a piece of paper, and I know, I get them from the school all the time until I can you fill us out inside of like, no, send me a DocuSign send me something that I can just like type in and in submit back to you.

 

Michael Topper 

Yeah, and you know, clients want to make sure it’s secure, obviously. So it’s got to have all the security around it. But you know, in the old days, they used to fill in the ones that did the one in 10 would fill in a PDF, put it into the mail and mail it to you, which is hardly secure either. So, you know, I think all the bells and whistles and the security around these kind of things now, if they’re done properly are pretty good.

 

Fraser Jack 

Exactly right. Security is a big focus and patient of mine as well as one of those things that I’ve discovered over the last sort of little while that email is very, is not very secure when it comes to sending stuff back anyway, you know, like filling out a form and then sending it through email is not that smart. Yeah.

 

Michael Topper 

I think the other thing for advisors to be aware of is quite often advisors are detailed kind of people. That’s why their advisors they like the numbers that like getting into detail, but they’re not necessary. be brilliant at having conversations with clients. So to have some tools like what we call a feeling, find a five minute financial health check helps the client get in touch with their emotions and think emotionally about what their financial world looks like across the six areas of advice. And then to score it on a scale of one to fall. I’m really concerned about this area through to I think I’m okay. So that is really useful for the client, because they, they may have been referred by an accountant, the accountant might have noticed that they don’t have income protection, premiums that are deductible, they suggest they go and see the advisor, the client thinks the advisor is the insurance guy, they get a five minute health check, realize that not only do they have issues in risk, but there’s more to financial planning than just insurance. There’s six areas of advice, they then realize that maybe their debts not so great, and their retirements looking a bit dodgy. So they then have three sleepless nights. And when they come into the meeting with a client, it’s a different mind frame. It’s not what are you trying to sell me? Mr. advisor, Mr. salesperson, this to insurance salesperson, it’s, I’ve filled in this thing, I’ve got some issues, I need some help, how can you help me, and I’ve been happy to provide you with, you know, what my income is, and what my assets and liabilities are, and that type of thing. So you’ve got all of that. Now, how do you solve some of these issues for me, but it’s a major change in that. And it makes it easy for the advisor, because they don’t have to ask those 30 feeling kind of questions. The clients done it, it’s in plain English. And the adviser can then use that as an agenda. So this is all pre meeting. And I think next week, we’re going to talk about what happens in the meeting. This is all pre meeting so that the advisor really understands this client well before they come in. Yeah, I

 

Fraser Jack 

think it’s very important to and i’d love the fact that you call it a feeling fine. I think that’s a great, that’s a great thing. I really like the idea of you know, understanding where people are emotionally because I think we do make decisions emotionally, and we feel emotionally and then we, we justify it with financial decisions. And, and often as in financial advice. It’s all around the financial side, I love the feeling fine. And the fact that the fact that you can then right where they are in a feeling this is what doctors do, right? When it comes to pain management. They say how much pain even right now on a scale of one to 10 or one to something, and then they give you the you know, they prescribe and then create some sort of a treatment plan. And then afterwards, they asked the same question, and then they understand if their treatment plan has actually solved a feeling or an emotional problem.

 

Michael Topper 

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, things change as well. So I think later in the series, we’re going to talk about reviews. But to have a similar kind of document for every review is very helpful to an advisor, because you may and we’ve had this come up quite a few times with advisors where last year, they did a very good job on getting the client’s insurance sorted out, they’ve got all the insurances that they need, and nothing’s changed. They send out the review, feeling fine. So the five minute financial health check, and it comes back and the client is really concerned about their risk, better to know that before the meeting, then in the meeting, and so they can then prepare and say, you know, these are the four types of insurance. These are the amounts that we went through last year, everything’s in place. Why are you concerned? Well, my best friend died no insurance, his wife’s in a mess. We I thought we better check this. You can knock that over in three minutes rather than, oh, let me just go through my file and find it. Find out what we did last year and whether that was enough insurance and start freaking out. Rather, you know, be on the front foot when the client comes in with perceived issues like that.

 

Fraser Jack 

Yep. I think that’s a really good comment. Just getting on the front foot is the is the ultimate goal there. Michael, thanks so much for catching up in this episode. We look forward to catching you in the next episode when we discuss all things around the discovery meeting. Fantastic. See you then.