The Art of Trust #2 – Transcript

Fraser Jack
Hello, and welcome back to this series on the art of building trusted relationships. Now as trust is an unconscious feeling which is felt by somebody and building trust is complicated. Looking at the research in this episode, and number two of a four part series, we hear from our panel of speakers about the second area of trust, authenticity. Let’s jump straight in. Andrew, thank you for joining me in this the second episode of our series, we are highlighting the ideas around authenticity and what how that brings to the trust and relationship of financial advisors. Let’s kick off with the concept of authenticity. What is it and where did it come from.

Andrew Inwood
So authenticity is really a reaction to a bunch of work which was done in started in 1992 by the bain Consulting Group, which looked at the concept of likeability in relationships. And so they were focusing on building likability scores for their businesses so that people could understand them and articulate them. And that came out as the Net Promoter Score. So the NPS score and which is a likability score. So likability is interesting, but it’s not important. So likability tends to answer a question in a couple of ways. Would you recommend? And and how much do you like the service are the two questions, and the reaction to that kind of really relatively swiftly from? I think it started in the medical industry, where it said, Well, that’s interesting, but it’s not important. What’s important in this is authenticity, which is a subset of predictability, which is one of the big trust drivers. So if you think about trust being driven by the Netherlands, competence, integrity, and predictability, like authenticity fits into the Predict predictability bucket. And if you want to read about that there’s a guy from the University of Michigan has done some really, really good work on that. And Philip Symbio is another writer who’s done a lot of really good work on it. So understanding that becomes really important. So authenticity is two questions. It’s our people what they say they are, and do they do what they say they’re going to do. So it’s a really, really simple set of questions to ask. And researchers tend to like it because it gives you a two by two, you can put you can track people on the x axis on are they who they say they are, and the y axis and who they say, are they going to be up? Do they do what they say they’re going to do? So that gives you a couple of quadrants. And it’s an interestingly, we’ve had some changes in core data in the last little while, and I’ve been pushing the changes through as quickly as I’ve had, one of the things that you always do is reflect on yourself, and am I doing everything that I said I was going to do? And the answer to that was often No. And it was a question, it was never a question of intention was a question problem of bandwidth. So one of the things that I’ve started to do, particularly with clients and also with, with stuff is just promise less. So we’ll get to that when we can. And I think he just walked in on a meeting. As we were starting Fraser and people said, we want to do this, this and this and this and I was like not in the next 270 days, we’re not because we won’t be able to deliver it. And that will lower the authenticity we have as a management team. So for in the advice, relationships, this becomes really important. And it really comes really important to another part of psychology, which is the concept of anchoring. We’re kind of poor at this as an industry and anchoring is when you come back to something that wouldn’t work that you’ve done with people and and remind them of what’s going on. So now what happens in core data and with our clients is we work on a 90 day cycle with people and we’re very clear about it and we say this 90 days we’re going to do this And we’re going to focus on doing so always generally about three things because there’s a very strong rule of three and people, and the way in which people remember things. So I’m going through the process now coming back to the team and my clients and said, Hey, remember, in this quarter, we said, we’re going to do A, B, and C, we’ve done a, b, and c. We’ve also in some cases, done EF and j as well. And if you’re working here, internally, and you’ve done a F, and G is what you tend to get a bonus. And if you’ve done a, b, and c, well, then you know that your salary, and if you haven’t done a, b, and c, then that’s another challenge. And we’re having the same conversation with the clients and making sure that we’ve delivered against the things that we say that we’re going to deliver against that anchoring has a really powerful and positive impact, particularly if you back it up with data. And if you’re saying to your clients, we’re going to meet in 90 days, in that 90 days, we’ve got to, we’ve got to have done these three jobs. And you come back and say, Remember how we said we’re going to do these jobs, we delivered against these jobs in this timeframe. And then we have actually do it and we can anchor it. So an example of core data might be is that we’ve changed from the Google Suite to the Microsoft suite. And we said that was going to take a quarter, and we were going to add, we’re going to move from Confluence to share to SharePoint as a way of doing it. And we delivered against all those things. And so, you know, we were able to say we said we’re gonna deliver this on the operational side, we said we’re gonna hit these numbers on the sales side, we’re going to, we’re going to do this on the satisfaction side, six months ago, we said we were going to organize an offsite Manila, we’re now delivering on the off site Manila, and making sure that we’re doing all those things. So this authenticity piece becomes really important. So it’s two integers. And you should put this in your business all the time. Do if we ask that question to our clients? Are we who we say we are? Do the clients up for a start? Know who we say we are? That’s a really interesting question. Because often they don’t know who you say you are. Can they ask you the question? If you say, you know, company A, who are we? And they can reply back who you say you are to them? and B do we deliver on what we’re going to deliver on? So we’re going to deliver on and and have that as an issue that becomes really powerful. It’s in our client feedback surveys now, and sometimes that’s really brutal yet, but it’s a good learning every time

Fraser Jack
Yep, I’m gonna, I’m gonna dive into it more in the next episode into delivery, and reliability in that, in that sense, what which is the which was what comes next after delivery. But I want to talk about a lot of you look, you know, we’re in it, we’re in a profession, that there has been a lot of human beings. And sometimes there’s, there’s people being who they’re not, you know, like Be who you say you’re going to be. And then if somebody is not necessarily a particular way, or they like to do things a certain way, do you think they’re better off just to be really who they are, rather than try and be someone they’re not as if they’re not used to? You know, we’re recording this in Sydney, there’s a lot of suits and ties. But if somebody’s in the outback in, in a small country, town, they might not be, you know, the better off to be who they are.

Andrew Inwood
I’m not a trained psychologist, so I’m kind of hesitating to answer this. I’ve read a lot about this, but I’m by no means an expert and wouldn’t represent myself as, as that if you’re not who you say you are, then it causes a great deal of psychic pain is the whole concept of psychopathic psychopathy, of people who are really good at misrepresenting themselves. There is as many of those people in this industry, that industry, they work in any industry. So I don’t think we’re perversely over represented in that space. But there are plenty of observable psychopaths in this industry, who aren’t who they say they. And if you’ve been around long enough, you can recognize them pretty quickly. They are, by their nature, destructive. And you and I will have seen great businesses wrecked by people who were just making sure that they were wealthy at the end of the process, rather than the interest of the business or the customers in mind. Yeah, those people are fairly frightening, because they’re prepared to put the pain of other people aside and get wealthy from it and fully understanding what they’re doing is going to be causing pain. Again, I think you need people who know more about psychology in the middle answer that honestly, but it is kind of interesting.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I was bringing that when I’m talking to you about podcasts because people are like, Oh, we added all this bit out to him said no, no, we don’t we leave the Amazon ours in because that is who you are. And if somebody’s meeting you in a meeting or real life, and they’ve heard of us speaking on podcasts, you’re gonna get the same person that they’ve seen. So we’ve talked about the concept of authenticity, when people think they get they’re going to edit out all the ins and outs edit and polish their performance up to make it special. It’s so

Andrew Inwood
it’s so confronting though phrase a few years ago, I was doing some extra education because I thought I mean, work is really not that demanding. And I thought that that would be interesting. And so I went in, and I spent some time at the University of Sydney and I went through a bunch of personal psychological tests, and I kind of believe in those things, I think are about 80%. Right. I was really confronted by the answers about who I was as a person and coming to terms with the fact that that, you know, I have very low tolerance for people I move on pretty quickly. I’ve got a fast process of brain yada, yada yada and all the in some ways, the positive parts of yourself but in a lot of ways that’s a negative part. Have yourself as well, because increasingly running a business is a role of leadership. And increasingly, leadership is having a vision but putting your ego aside. And if you’re quite a competitive person, well, you know, you tend to be male, you play a lot of sport and you compete with a lot of sport, you get confused as to why other people aren’t competing or trying or striving or trying to do the best thing for the team. And it’s have to learn that you have to really focus on the team first and put the other part about it. And it’s painful. And if you’re not hardwired to be a great manager, it’s absolutely painful. But it’s the most important job you can do. Yeah, I’m authentically, quite a poor manager.

Fraser Jack
Fair enough. And I love the idea of putting your ego aside. Thank you so much for chatting to us about this particular topic. We’ll just we’ll catch up you very shortly when we start talking about reliability know from Jane, welcome back. And thank you for joining me again, we’re here to talk about authenticity. Hi, Fraser, thank you for having me. So Jane, we’ve had a few sneak peeks into your, your authentic self, your authentic self. In the last episode, you mentioned some things about your kids and some of the conversations you have with your client. How important is it for you to present as your true self, you know, as as Jane rather than sort of, you know, as, as a professional that doesn’t, doesn’t, you know, show their emotion or talk about their kids or anything like that? How important is it for you and your client relationships?

Jane Ryan
Look, it’s really important. I was really blessed. When I had my youngest daughter, who’s now 11, I was blessed in a way, some people might think that it was torture, but I was blessed in a way that I could could have an easy transition back into work. And I sort of went back a little earlier than anticipated for, for a couple of reasons. And so I sort of had this new little baby that was about three months old, and had to do a little road trip to see some new clients. And, and so they got to see the real me with this little baby. Hello, this is Jane, this is who I am. Here’s my daughter, Ruby, she’s a baby. And most of those appointments that was a week long road trip in Rome, regional Australia, will regional New South Wales. And I think every one of the clients was holding Ruby at some point while I was writing notes. And you know, I still have some clients who say how’s our baby going? And I said, well, she’s now 11 years old. So they’ve been able to see the real me the me as a mom and, and juggling me as a planner at the same time. So I think that they have seen warts and all the real me. And there is a thing about people in in regional communities. You know, I live in a smallish community. And there is a real village, there’s a real village, village, and community sense. And I get that in all of the places that I go to. So people get to, you know, we’ve been through droughts, and we’ve been through floods and, and lots of different events in some of these in some of these towns. So, you know, I get to see the clients warts and all when they’re in very challenging situations. And I think they can see that I’m responding in my true, authentic way, when we’re dealing with those situations, because there has certainly been some challenging points where clients have gone through where we’ve had to, you know, take a drastic turn on our pathway of advice. And, you know, I sort of say to the clients, when I’m guiding them through whatever the, you know, the most recent hurdle is, if it is a hurdle, that I’m going to remove the emotion from the conversation, I’m going to remove the emotion in what I think is best for them. Because often they’re trying to make that decision with emotion. And that can be good and bad. So that’s where I explained to the clients that they might be having something very difficult that they’re dealing with, and that is bringing their emotions to the surface and and whilst I take that on board, sometimes I need to put that aside for them in order to make the advice decision for them in their best interests. And I think explaining that makes them see that I have the capability of deep seated emotion but I also have the ability as someone who’s a professional advisor for them to remove it in order to take the next step forward.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I think that’s a really interesting couple of really good things that you mentioned in the other just the vulnerability when the clients have a vulnerable moment or that an opt in the reason they need you is because they’re vulnerable, and to be able to present themselves as vulnerable but for you to be able to be authentically you and being yourself and for them to feel comfortable in that space. But you mentioned the concept of emotional decisions, which is obviously, where a lot of the stuff falls down, right? If you just make emotional financial decisions, he’ll probably make more bad ones than good. But if you bring the logical conversation, then you’ll probably make more in a better financial decisions than emotional. So I think it’s interesting to lean into that concept of being able to say, you know, when at emotional vulnerable moments, you’re going to bring the logic.

Jane Ryan
Absolutely, because logic is a really important tool to have. And I think, when people are feeling very vulnerable, and we’ve all been there, you know, we all have these moments of vulnerability, I think that’s a very important emotion to capture. And to hold on to, and to remember what it’s like to feel vulnerable, because I’ve, you know, had instances in my life where I have felt very vulnerable. And, you know, I have this sort of saying, then when I don’t know what to do, just do nothing, because I don’t want to go and make a bad decision. And if where I’m sitting, I’m aware of what’s around me. And the space that I’m in, then I won’t make a won’t make a move forward. Because I don’t want to make a move backwards until I have all the facts. So it really is about, you know, explaining to people that it’s really important to have as much information as around you as possible, and to act accordingly, when you have as much information because then you can make a well informed decision. And there’s lots of people that come to me that that are not in a vulnerable space, that we’re just moving forward through life. And they’ve just decided that they want to make a decision. I’ve got existing clients that we’re just doing our pathway through. But even then, if we, if we, you know, doing a review, and we’re really not making any changes, it’s I’m explaining to them because I’ve considered every factor. And there’s no need to make a change. And that’s because we’ve looked at everything around us. And we’ve got as much information to make that well informed decision. Yep.

Fraser Jack
Fantastic, Jane, thanks for coming in chatting to us about authenticity and sharing a little bit about your journey and your story. And I love the vulnerability piece and the logical, logical versus emotional decisions. Thank you. for that. We’ll join you. We’ll have you back on the next episode, when we start talking about reliability, it’s Fraser toxin. Now in this particular episode, we are leaning into the concept of authenticity with regards to building trust or pillar to a building trust authenticity. And we’ve talked about behaviors in the first episode and setting up a lot of the conversations in clients. But tell us around tell us about the concept of authenticity to you, you mentioned that you, you do like to be real and yourselves and, you know, in those meetings, so tell us about how important it is for you.

Anthony Jones
You know, I guess I probably could have covered some of those in the first sort of episode. But I guess the main thing for us is explained to the client a couple of things. One is what our philosophy is and how we operate, to make sure that it is compatible with the types of sort of things they’re looking to achieve. I think the the fee conversation, we sort of spoke a fair bit about that in the first episode. I think that’s, that’s quite important. As far as that’s concerned, talking about, you know, that really just going through the process does in some degree, with the client is really, really important. So that we can sort of demonstrate to them that this is what their expectations are, this is what we expect from them, this is what they can expect from us. And that, you know, it is, it is a relationship driven type of event. And, you know, so that we need to get on and make sure that we are compatible, as far as that’s concerned,

Fraser Jack
is interesting, isn’t it? The relationship piece of this? So tell us a little bit more about that, how, how you have conversations, or are you just at the very beginning, try and set the scene for this is who I am, this is how I behave. This is how I talk. This is the way I the way I act, you know, all those sort of things, and also making the clients feel comfortable about them being themselves as well not having to put on a front.

Anthony Jones
It could just be I mean, when you’ve got a target market, for example, that might be you know, mums and dads or all those sorts of things. It may be you know, not turning up with a certain three piece suit and a tie and, you know, those sorts of things. And we still go and visit a lot of clients. That’s sort of a point of difference for us. And visiting someone, you know, I got taught a long time ago, you know, there’s nothing like visiting someone in their home because you get to see how they live, how they operate. You know, particularly people who might have children, they appreciate it. Unbeliev for those of us who’ve had children, we all appreciate the difficulties when they’re sort of 234 and five sort of thing trying to feed them and entertain them. and those sorts of things. So we’re still and we do a lot of work in sort of corporate. So we go out to a lot of work workers, work offices and those sorts of things as well. I think importantly, is when someone has particularly been referred by someone else, we sometimes have a bit of a conversation about, you know, or, you know, what are they? What did they say to you that sort of Rauris have brought you in here today? So what was it that resonated with you, and it could be, I just want to check on, you know, my Superfund or I want to check on whether we’re on track for retirement because I know that you’ve done this, this and this for, you know, this other client. So have it sort of trying to weave in a little bit without saying, Hey, do you know the other person’s situation, just trying to get a background? Again, is also sort of shows that you know, you are listening to what they want, rather than telling them how much we now satisfied?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, absolutely. Right now, the concept of authenticity. When I think about this, as what you’re saying is, it’s just building and building and building upon that, you know, that relationship. Tell us a little bit more around the, the those conversations you have with the client at the initial stages. And I guess we’re setting expectations, but tell us about the conversation that you have. And throughout your process, how long is your process? And how does that work?

Anthony Jones
I’m not to be honest, I’m trying to have the meeting as quick as possible. We surveyed some clients two years ago, and the number one issue or when we have clients had any complaints at all was the meetings went too long. I think we have this expectation, whether it be because we’re trying to justify our fees or whatever it might be that we need to have like a first meet, it’s got to be an hour or it’s got to be this. So it got to be that way we often say to the client, before you come in, we need you to send us a high level macro financial picture. Because we want to spend the time with you talking about the things that are important not only bhp shares, you’ve got what your house is worth, so to speak. Also to if people don’t do that, before they come in, it just gives us a bit of an idea about a their commitment, perhaps to the process. And we’re getting closer to the point where we’re probably not seen as we won’t see someone until they’ve done that, because we want to make sure that the time we spend with them is a value to them, we’d like to leave them the worst case scenario, I’d like to leave them leaving the office, even if we don’t do anything for them thinking, hey, that was well worth the 30 minutes or 40 minutes. So often find, you know, normally that the conversation in the first meeting, I think you can, unless someone’s got a very complex situation, we’re more interested in what they want to do and what they want to achieve. And that doesn’t really take a lot of time. It’s all that data gathering, which can come later that, you know, tends to take a bit of time. So we’re trying to remove that as much as we can from that initial meeting.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, that’s interesting. I love the fact that you asked your clients to survey and they told you make the meeting shorter. How important is it to you that you get the you know, the real Anthony Jones across you know, who you are what you believe in rather than say the the Templeton’s financial adviser from from from a logo, how important is that UD the real you across?

Anthony Jones
Well, sort of difficult because I think we we run the same sort of process, we do the same sort of line items, my business partner, he operates exactly the same. So whether a client saw myself or or him, I think he would get a very similar outcome. And I think, look, as long as we always put the client’s interests first, that’s, that will automatically, in my view, place you in that sort of authentic position. I guess probably, they tend not to talk too much about ourselves. But I’m happy to use examples of myself as well to clients to make it a little bit more real. Simple thing could be, someone’s talking about life insurance. I just, I can handle my life. I take my life insurance sheduled my own with me. So if someone goes, Oh, yeah, we’re talking about this, and why would you need that? And I? Or do that seems like a lot or whatever it might be. I’m more than happy to sort of share what I do for myself. It’s pretty simple that

Fraser Jack
way. It’s a fairly common question, isn’t it? What do you do? Well, actually,

Anthony Jones
I’ve never get asked it. I’m surprised that people don’t ask more often. What do you do? Yeah. How do you invest your money? Where’s your super fund? Where’s this? You never get asked? It’s really interesting.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, they probably they probably just thinking it into his kid.

Anthony Jones
Probably yeah. But I actually offer and say, Well, this is what I’ve got. And this is how I’ve structured and this is the reason for it. So again, rather than saying something like, or the reason you have life insurance, maybe life insurance in Super is because of x, y and Zed. I’ll say to them, this is the reason I’ve done it. Or if you’re talking about estate planning, this is the reason I’ve got a testamentary trust in blah blah blah. So when you sort of done it all sudden someone guys will do if you doubt for yourself, you’re eating your own cooking, I guess is the way to describe that.

Fraser Jack
It’s not just do what I say but it’s do what I do. I love it. Anthony, thanks so much for coming on this particular episode. I look forward to catching you in the next episode. Sure. Before time. Thank you for joining me again, Anne.

Anne Fuchs
Fraser, I’m back, you’ve had me back. I’m a lucky girl. I’m a lucky girl. I’ve been invited back you pass the first day me.

Fraser Jack
Speaking of which, we are talking about authenticity and being real and being honest and open. And it’s it’s certainly from both. It’s probably easy to do as a human being point of view. But I want to talk to you a little bit about from a brand point of view as well, because we’re all human beings, but we also represent brands, and how do we keep it real or keep remain authentic from both human beings point of view and a brand point of view?

Anne Fuchs
It’s a really good question. I think I’m so excited about the new brand. When we’re recording this, we showed the big debut of the TV ad with Artie the pig and big baby and the sweetest trains. So the culture of both heritage sun and que obviously we come out of Queensland and Queensland is a really relaxed, informal, fun, you know, culturally, slightly patriotic

Fraser Jack
state,

Anne Fuchs
I slightly patriotic, I do confess I’m very patriotic as a Queenslander, particularly on those three nights of the that involve them around jersey. But so I guess and there’s a lot of fun. And so I feel like the brand, the new brand has a lot of reflects those attributes. It’s unpretentious. It’s fun, it’s accessible. And I’d like to think that is the authenticity of who, you know, everyone I work with here at Australian retirement trust. That’s kind of what it’s like to work here. It’s down to earth accessible fun. How can we help? You know, that’s the that’s the vibe of the place? Yeah.

Fraser Jack
And I think it’s pretty important for financial advisors running their own practices, that they understand what their own authentic self is, and then how they translate that into their own brand.

Anne Fuchs
I couldn’t agree more. I the advisors who I love have such they have, they are so comfortable in their own skin. They’re completely unpretentious. They’ve got a beautiful, down to earth bedside manner. If you think about the doctor, like the doctors that you’ve been in hospital had to go to a GP, they don’t speak the jargon. They’re not sort of all kind of stiff and acting all kind of professional like I’m on to rule sort of I’m, you know, they’d say, Oh, don’t call me doctor call me blah, blah. And at the advisors that I think have the highest impact. We’ve had a couple of advisors over the years sort of talk to all of the staff here at Australian retirement trust, and the ones that have that are really just their unpretentious normal selves who just tell great Oh, no, they’re great storytellers. And they just tell great stories about how they’ve helped their clients who happened to be members of art, man that people will talk about them for ages afterwards about how they were just amazing. I loved that story about how they helped us so and so member like, yeah, so that’s what it’s all about, really you want if they can, those advisors that do tell those stories, they get repeated over and over, it’s the best form of advertising you can have. Yeah, when you

Fraser Jack
tell the story of the doctor, it makes me feel like the power and balance, right? The the idea of you know, somebody who is on a different level than you, what do you what are your thoughts on that within advisors, just trying to make sure that they are on the same level as the client.

Anne Fuchs
And I think there are those, if I apply the doctor, you’ve got those doctors that refuse to work in the public health system. Because of this, you know, I’m here to make a lot of money. And there is probably that power imbalance, where I think like the advisors, again, that I think, who inspire me, we all obviously want to make a good living. But they have that sense of service where they do some pro bono and keep it keep it, you know, how can they help and serve the community and also generate a good income for their family and pay their staff good wages, etc? So yeah, there isn’t that path. They’re just they’re not that the how they, how they show up doesn’t lose power.

Fraser Jack
You mentioned that sense of purpose or sense of community. How important is it to understand your own sense of purpose, their own values and philosophies and therefore be able to say, this is actually who I am as a human being and I’m gonna lean in and embrace that, they’ll probably end up with those types of clients.

Anne Fuchs
Yeah. Well, I take you think, Fraser That if you walked out onto the street here, and you ask anyone what matters most they’ll talk about their family, their health and financial security. And yet this industry is the least trusted, and it’s probably the least trusted because of people wearing you know, they’ve got the Wall Street types, the, you know, this very kind of doesn’t have the accessibility of the ordinary person wandering around their local shopping center. And so I think if we can bring just the, the accessibility factor into everyone’s lives through through using technology to access more people, I know there’s a lot of advisors doing podcasts now. When doing their own videos for education, that’s the exciting stuff that will generate trust, it will get shared on social media create trust and realize that these advisors aren’t just sort of there to help the really well off people, but they’re there to help the people who are just ordinary when they retire with a couple of $100,000. And they want to make the most of it. And you and as an advisor, you can charge a good fee for that. Just like an like an a normal specialist would and and people and people will talk my experience will be is that the advisors that do that generate a lot of referrals off the back of that business model.

Fraser Jack
Yep. I used to work with somebody who used to talk about the concept of middle aged white men in suits. We’ve seen playing with them on TV telling, telling fibs every now and again. So it’s it’s not just for financial advisors, it’s also different people as well. But talk to me about the idea of transparency and how, you know, being completely open and honest about, you know, from a business point of view, as well as a human thing point of view.

Anne Fuchs
So I think, surely now, we as an industry, superannuation, financial advice, insurance, we’ve all worked out that if we try and get too tricky, you gotta get caught out, you will get caught out. And so I think we must construct everything, the business model around the client, or the member if you’re in Superfund world. And if you’re trying to find tricky ways to generate revenue, or inevitably, I just think that that will be exposed at some point, because transparency is so high these days, and will continue to be so more so. And then you’re risking your brand, you only get one shot, one shot, in terms of holding on to trust and if you if you let go of it so hard to get back. Yeah. And I think if you’re not prepared, if you if you wouldn’t want to put it on the front page of a newspaper, how you how you’re running your business model and how you’re generating income, then that probably tells you something. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. And I think we’re also we’re all human beings, too. We all make mistakes. What are your thoughts about this leaning into when you do make mistakes to build upon them? Yeah,

Anne Fuchs
I think that’s what creates trust. Doesn’t you just go yep, we’ve stuffed up. We’re sorry. Our bad. It happened for this reason. You know, we had a we had an error here recently with a technology glitch. And it impacted 150 members, it was really just a system glitch. It was embarrassing. We owned it. And I think you actually the the advisor in question, who was very good about it, really, I think appreciated the fact we just opened up and went Yep, it’s system stuff up. We’re sorry. What What else can we do? The and yeah, everyone’s human right. No one’s perfect. No, systems are perfect. I own it. I say. Yeah, absolutely.

Fraser Jack
There’s no, there’s no, but it’s the way certainly used to our leaning into our own mistakes here at x, y, we make plenty of them. Don’t you worry.

Anne Fuchs
Yeah, well, did you only learn through the mistakes though, too, don’t you? And, and I think anyone that sort of puts any organization advisor, Superfund that puts on a facade of everything’s perfect, and we’ve got everything nailed. Intuitively that can’t be right. So I think owning what you’re doing well, what you need to work on, and being open about it creates trust.

Fraser Jack
Yes, absolutely. Well said. And thanks so much for joining us in this particular episode, where we talked about authenticity. I look forward to chatting you to chatting with you in the next episode when we start talking about reliability

Anne Fuchs
and I know you are a very reliable man Fraser jack. So let’s do that. Thanks.