#289 Shaun Hunt – Transcript

Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben from pivot and oh, wait, hold on. I’ll start that one again. Lucky win on life. Excellent, right? That’s right. Yeah, I just I just actually finished a pivot podcast. So I’m in Pivot mode, but I still have the hat on, but we’re actually Hey guys, Ben Nash from the XY advisor crew. And today I’m pumped to be here with my Dakota walking buddy, Shaun Hunt. Shaun is an advisor down in lovely red laid Principal Advisor at hunt wealth, they’ve been going for code up to 10 years, not that you’d be able to tell from that baby face of his. But Shaun, thanks for joining us, buddy.

Shaun Hunt
Thanks, very pleased to be here.

Ben Nash
Mate I am keen, I know your base down in Adelaide. You’re under the peregrym license with one support staff working with about 100 clients mainly in that retiree space, I’m keen to pick your brain a bit about the the evolution of your business. So the solution and then how you’re driving efficiency in what you’re doing. I thought maybe a good place to start is just talking through the evolution of your business and how you’ve ended up where you are today.

Shaun Hunt
Okay, so I started advising about 13 years ago, working for a small boutique firm, and there’s about five hours in a business, all business owners at the time. And when they decided to sort of split up, I bought a very small client base from a retiring advisor at the time. And he was in his 60s. So again, very predominantly retirement advice. So I started with that very small client base and just grew it from there. And one of the things where I started, was just sharing resources with a couple of other advisors. So we started off with a bit of a co op model, keeping our businesses separate and our clients separate, but using a shared business to basically run our staff and run our premises at the time. And that’s sort of evolved over the last 10 years with a couple of different advisors, but predominately keeping that same model. And for me, like advice wise, I still work a lot in retirement space. But if you do a good job for your clients, which I believe we do, we have had a lot of sort of the younger children referred to us and sort of the businesses growing in different directions.

Ben Nash
Yeah, nice. So I’m keen to talk a bit about the service solution for clients. But one of the things that you touched on there was that the co op model that where you started initially pulling resources across businesses, I know that I did that at pivot in the early days as well, where we had a few different businesses and sharing, sharing a bit of the cost sharing some of the the the resourcing where you don’t really have the need or the budget for for a full time resource. Can you unpack sort of what, what, how that came together and how it’s evolved over the over the last, you know, a number of years?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, so when I started, there was two other advisors that were part of the bigger business, they all sort of split up. So basically, again, we just pulled our resources. So we ran our own cars and our own licenses, we were all licensed by the same dealer at the time, which seemed a little bit more convenient, but would have worked either way. So essentially, we hired a couple of admin staff between the three of us. So again, sharing that cost across the three of us and rented out premises. So we have a joint company that basically runs all the business side of things. And then us each personally, we just run it, they are in the car through our own entities, but really just paying a service fee to that joint business, which covers off on all the costs of running business. And when I started so the client base I bought was about maybe 100 100. Okay, and recurring revenue. So it was a pretty small business to start with and trying to set up an office and staff from from that position would have been pretty tricky. So it really helped me, I guess, get that starting point. And be able to build from there.

Ben Nash
Hmm. And you you mentioned so you’ve got your you call business in in Hunt wealth, and we’re just chatting bit offline that you’ve got a joint venture with an accounting business. Can you unpack Yeah, what what sort of how that actually works in practice and how you’ve structured things on that side?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, so it’s probably slightly unique, so part of my dealer group at the time, which was secure at all, they were also licensing this accounting firm, and they had a few employed advisors that had worked for at the time. So over about two years, they’ve been trying to get a financial planning business off the ground and their last advisor just after left very suddenly. So they had work on the go and clients needing help at the time with an advisor that kind of disappeared. So I just stepped in Being part of a state license, it was pretty easy for me to be able to help those clients. So I just started doing some basically consulting work for the accounting practice. But they run the financial planning business as a separate entity. But over time that sort of grew. And basically, I bought into that that small business, when I started helping them to recurring revenue, there was only about 30 grand, which is a pretty disappointing effort after two years of work. But we’ve grown, it probably quadrupled and plus more since that point in time, but it’s been a bit challenging, because obviously, I was running a full time business, and I wasn’t working part time when I started. So balancing the two has been been a bit of a challenge. But when I bought into basically we share, so I own 50% of that business. Now, there’s two accounting partners that are 25 each. So we share the profits from that, essentially, I just charge a fee for the work I do. So all the other costs come out of the business, I paraplanning in those things, but I charge a very reduced sort of hourly rate for the work that’s done. And then we just split the profits that come out of the business on top of

Ben Nash
that. Okay, and so there, these are the typically clients of the accounting firm that then get introduced to us the financial planning solution to support them working in conjunction with the accountants, is that right?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, absolutely. So they’ve been trying to, to use a bad term for that one stop shop and being able to help clients in other areas for a long time. So, you know, dabbling in mortgage broking, financial planning and other areas. So it really it was about obviously, just helping their clients in as much as they can. But having that consistency across the two businesses and the clients knowing that, you know, we’re talking to each other. So, for example, with the cellphone certified clients, when we’re doing the investment work, and those things, we still know what’s happening on the other side, and helping each other out, essentially.

Ben Nash
Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of businesses out there in the financial services fee that they’ll start going oh, yeah, it’s a great idea to do, you know, mortgage broking or accounting or financial planning or whatever. But if it’s not the focus, and that that sort of getting people from one side to the other, doing it in a way that aligns with what the client wants the communications there, it’s pretty challenging. And I think a lot of them like the the sounds like these guys experienced before you got involved that it doesn’t quite work in, in the way that you’d expect. And it is, like we’ve contemplated potentially expanding into different service lines in the past. But when we took the time to actually map out what’s involved in thinking through how much focus that actually requires to, you know, nail that and nail it in a way that’s consistent with your other brand, it is quite a lot of work. I’m interested to like, what, what are the things that you’ve found to be quite effective in, in growing, you know, because I think it applies, like, if you’ve got it, you’ve clearly got a structured joint venture company type setup, but obviously, a lot of advisors that are listening along would be working with other partners at some level, what do you think, really, the keys there to success in fostering and growing a relationship like that?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, I mean, I’d start by saying this is very challenging. And, you know, there’s a very different mindset for accountants and financial planners, it took a while, I mean, these Unfortunately, one of the, I’d say one of the key things is both of these accountants are, or the partners are quite productive, and they want to make this work. So they’re not, they’re not trying to go into sort of dabbling in it, they want it to be successful. So they are actively seeking out opportunities. But it’s also really, the toughest part is building their understanding of what financial planning is understanding the process. And to be honest, how much harder bringing a client on from our perspective is then potentially for them not to do the work they do. But, you know, financial planning is pretty challenging, and it hasn’t gotten easier over the last few years. So it’s really their understanding of not only that process, but also potentially how long it takes to nurture a financial planning clients. So you’re going through this first meeting to actually getting paid sometimes is a bit of a stretch for accountants. But I think it is just that, that constant nurturing of, you know, educating them around what the process is and how it works, but also who are the right type of clients, because accounting clients and financial planning clients, you know, our ideal clients are very, very different. So you might have a wonderful business client who’s perfect for their business, but from a personal financial planning perspective, they might not be really applied at all. Yeah, or they have a, you know, an accounting client who seems from their perspective to be somewhat valued, like a bit of a turn but might be an ideal planning client, because yes, you do and what the opportunities

Ben Nash
Absolutely yeah, that’s one of the things that I in fact, actually shied me away from on pursuing more referral type relationships earlier on in the business, because I, like a lot of people you hear, you got to build your centers of influence and you know, get your leads, and like all that stuff. And when you’re trying to grow your business and your revenue, then obviously you want that stuff. But we fostered a couple of relationships. And they were really pumped with what we were doing and behind the cause, and they would introduce us to people and I felt a sense of obligation, like I do with anyone, I suppose that is introduced to the business, but particularly someone that’s been introduced into the business by someone that we’ve got a relationship with and have a conversation with the people and lovely people, maybe, you know, differing levels of stuff going on financially, not none of them necessarily really good or really bad. Well, there was lots I suppose a lot of really fun. You, they sort of like not that not the right fit. And I just sort of ended up for a lot of them just sort of almost like a bit of coaching and guidance and like taking them on a bit of an education journey to show what are the things that they should be thinking about, and often up as, like, they’re, these are the things that need to happen, and we can continue a conversation, but at this point, it’s not going to be a formal conversation, because it’s not there. And that ends up being quite a resource drain. You know, I think that it’s great to help people in this, you know, we have some targeted time that we focus on that. But when you’re in that business buildings view that you want to make sure that there’s a there’s a return on the time that you are invested in that. So it can be can be quite challenging if they don’t have that education, it How have you gone about that? Is there any particular strategies or tactics that you’ve used to help educate the accountants on? What actually makes an ideal client for you, or how you can segment and target the people that, that you should be having conversations with?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, so initially, with the dealer group, we did spend some time sitting there, all four of us sort of mapping out those sort of ideal clients, what they look like, what they’re looking for. But again, it’s a bit of a challenge that there’s not always that cross section, like we might say, you know, in my example, a very good retiree client, but they don’t have anyone in that age bracket. So we had to find some middle ground. And to your point about that obligation, that’s a really big thing. Because when you’re trying to build these relationships, especially initially, you want to help all their clients. And I did that many, many hours seeing clients, early on that, you know, weren’t going anywhere. And again, like you said, lovely people and happy to help anyone. But you know, at the end of the day, we’re trying to try to run a business. But building on that, continuing to go back, and I think one of the biggest things, which is hard initially, but when they do refer a client, that’s not quite right. It’s actually really giving him that feedback as to why and why you can’t help that person. Because if you don’t, if you’re all nice about it, which I am a nice guy generally, of course, not. But essentially, you’ve got to, you’ve got to keep having those conversations, because I, you know, in the early days, I did, I just tried to help them all, when it’s not ideal for us not ideal for the client, because they’re not getting necessarily the right outcome. They’re getting some good information, but the accounts are getting the feedback that they shouldn’t be sending that person. So they’ll just keep doing it. So it’s really that ongoing. And I don’t think there’s any secret to it. But a lot of people will say this, I think it does take a lot of time with centers of influence in my other business had, well, I’ve never really gone down that path, because we just nurtured our clients. And we’re just getting natural referrals from ongoing clients. And my sort of, I guess, success rate with those client referrals is astronomical compared to the success rate with the accounting Well, that’s getting better, but where it started was very different. So it is, you know, focusing on time where it’s most productive.

Ben Nash
Yeah, and I think that with clients, because they understand, especially when you get a client referral, because you’ve helped them, obviously, they cannot see what you’ve done. And then they’re going to talk to people and the people are going to come wanting the sort of help that you’ve already done. Whereas with someone that’s in a different sphere, it is obviously different. My last question on that on that JD type setup is like if you could go back to the start of that, what would you do differently? What are some of the lessons that you picked up that you would change as a result of the learnings over the last little while?

Shaun Hunt
Probably really focusing on that education from the from the get go. So initially, I came in business was a bit of a mess, to be honest. So I was tidying up and this was just as fts. And all those things came into I was trying to figure out like, they didn’t even really know what the client base looked like, because they just had the advisors manage that. So I had to step in and try and figure it all out. So it was challenging, but I think spending more With the actual accountants from the get go, and maybe, to my earlier point not being so nice about trying to have their attorney accounts, they’re doing a good job when they’re referring someone they shouldn’t be. So you do every you’ve got to do it the right way. But the sooner you can have those sometimes tough conversations, the better off you’ll be for everyone. Huh?

Ben Nash
I like it. Tell us, Shawn, you’ve been at it for a while in, in your business. And I think a reasonably common story in the industry where you pick up, you know, a handful of clients from someone that’s whining back from their advice work, and then you’ve gone out, you know, building building your business from there. And how have you tackled? Like, how’s the service solution evolved over that time? And how have you tackled the, you know, how you change things over time?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, I think a big focus has been trying to help the right select group of clients. So as you said before, in my business aim is to not really help more than I mean, I want to help everyone, but more than a sort of, you know, 100 or so clients. Because my business has been built around from day one, and as we probably talked about earlier, is keeping flexible, and so I’ve got a young family, and that time is very precious to me. So I’ve never been one to sort of flog myself too hard. But the business has evolved a lot in terms of when I took it over again, they were trying to help everyone. So really being clear about where you can help and what you need to charge to be able to do that. So if you’re only going to have 100 clients, you know, for full disclosure, I’m aiming for to get business revenue of about half a million. So we’re all financial advisors, we can do the math on that on what each client needs to be paying. So you’ve got to find that balance of getting the right people into the business. And early on, you know, this is the same for most people do try and help everyone and take everything on. But it’s one of those lessons, I think I’ve heard other people say on this very podcast is that if everyone could go back, they would start with the right clients from day one. Really focusing in and that’s what’s been the biggest, I guess the evolution is being able to say no to some clients, and at the end of the day, you can still help them and educate them to just say, Now is not the right time for you, or there’s someone else that’s probably better off to help you in your position. Being comfortable to do that, which early on. When I was a youngster, it was hard to enjoy as well.

Ben Nash
Of course, yeah. Because it early days, you want to obviously get the revenue in the door, and you see the opportunity that’s there. But and we we worked, we’ve got a fairly targeted so solution, but I know that for us as well that earlier on in the piece that there were clients that you’d get an opportunity to work with and think like you could make them work, but that you could make it work. But I found that sometimes, well, oftentimes that when you do that, that it’s like you have to work with people differently to how you want to work with your ideal client. And you’d you’re working with different products and different solutions, it’s like, we don’t deal with a lot of clients that have self managed super funds and a handful of them. But when we when we when we work with a client like that, it’s just like the there’s a whole bunch of different things that need to change in the process. And that means that it’s difficult for the team, the operations people ends up consuming more time. And even if you charge more than what you would typically charge your the resourcing that goes into it might be you know, significantly higher, and therefore while the dollars might be higher, you’re you sort of ended up not not being as profitable, or you know, sometimes spending so much time that you’re not profitable at all. So yeah, I think that now we really consistent with with who we are, what we deliver and how we help people and I think that for us that if we’ve got a client that buys into that great let’s let’s work together and we can you know, walk off into the sunset, but if we don’t, then that’s okay, as well. There’s an army of great financial advisors out there that that will be right for them but not not just the right fit for us. But yeah, I totally get the challenge that when you’re when you’re building a business that it’s it’s not always easy to

Shaun Hunt
too tempting. It’s too tempting just to because like you said, when you’ve got your business working with the right clients, it’s a beautiful humming machine everyone knows what they’re doing and why they’re doing it and the clients are getting the best outcomes and as soon as you try and adapt that machine to the client, it does it just something falls off and it’s never the best outcome for anyone.

Ben Nash
Absolutely. And so you You’ve kept the, your your business small so that you can build that flexibility into what you do. I feel like I might have ended up in your shoes. That was my intention. When I when I started my business if I was a little bit early with, with starting family I see a mountain benefit in having that flex and ability to Yeah, sort of manage your schedule and be efficient in what you do. I’m interested to unpack like, how have you tackled, you know, efficiencies in your business? You said you got target client numbers, but what what does that journey look like for you?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, it’s interesting, you said that the business is coming up to 10 years, which happens quite quickly. And, you know, in the last couple of years, I thought maybe I should actually start working on this business rather than just flowing along as I have been for a while. So it has been really building out the processes and the services and being clear about who we’re taking on and how we’re helping them. Just get distracted from your question. But for me, as I said, before, it’s working as lean as I can. I mean, obviously, being a sole advisor with one support staff has its own challenges, sitting earlier that my support staff was out in isolation for a week or two. And I don’t know how to do the job anymore. I used to didn’t know how to do it at one point. Yeah, it just didn’t work. And I didn’t even know where the client documents were, were anymore. So it’s really being as efficient as possible in terms of the business structure and how we do our work. And I outsource preparing. So that part’s quite efficient. But it’s it’s declare processes, which is say I’m really been knuckling down on the last year or two is, you know, building out sort of a non standard operating procedure, but an operations manual that we can access easily. And again, doing the training video, for sorry, training videos using loom for staff and my attention the next next six to 12 months, we’ll be bringing on an offshore staff member as well. So part of preparing for that is actually making sure because my CSRS she’s awesome, she knows what she has to do. So what I’ve done my work I’ve given everything sort of done. It’s not me chasing her up or following her up. But when obviously I bring in another staff member, that’s all going to change, I can’t just assume they know everything that she does. So that’s that’s been a bit of a focus on actually getting the business into better shape and not being so reliant on, on what’s in my head or what’s in carries out at the moment.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally. That’s definitely one of the advantages that I found, as we started growing, our team that you do, there’s a lot of key seed risk, and when you’ve got someone that’s great, then that’s all great, but if there’s any issues or any sort of things happen, that it’s it can be a real Spanner. So I’ve been one of the things that gives me a bit of peace of mind with where we’re at at the moment is that now we’ve got multiple people in in almost all of the key seeds such that it’s there is a little bit less disruption if someone wants to take leave or gets COVID locked down or whatever. But look, I’ve got good news for you. Because I like you, when I started my business, I always intended for it to just be me as the advisor, I work solo for a year, then I wrote my wife in my now wife, she wasn’t my wife at the time, but roped her in and we worked together two and a half years. And it was just us we did have a couple of different offshore resources at different points in time, which didn’t work particularly well but did do some stuff. Mainly because of the our management and the learnings that needed to happen to me. The good thing that I found is that in that time, because we put a lot of the processes in place to make things really easy and efficient from a day to day perspective, that when it did come time to actually adding more team into the business, that it was already quite clear, and it made that process a lot easier. Whereas sometimes I think if you’re just trying to do it all from the start, sometimes you just figuring a lot of those things out and I suppose there are certainly people that do it. But may if you’ve got it, it’s all there. It’s all there for you. So

Shaun Hunt
yeah, we didn’t know next time we’re talking might not be so simple.

Ben Nash
Well, that’s Yeah, I think that that efficiencies, the core and whether you whether you’ve got one advisor or 10 advisors, I think it’s all a it’s the same the same strokes, I suppose in terms of wanting to ensure that whoever’s in the team and whoever’s working with your clients is doing that efficiently. What’s the tech what tech stack to use in your business? Out of interest?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, so with our licensee we, we have explain, which is everyone’s favorite and least favorite piece of software. Yeah, we use it. We use it pretty well. I think explain is what you make of it. It’s it’s somewhat totally but it can do you know what you needed to do? Outside of that? I mean, all the things that probably isn’t some of them I got from paying attention to the xy group. So calories, calories and good one hour Just in terms of making client appointments easy and the reminders and all those things. So we use loom for training videos, and I use it for the SME client videos from explaining something or anything like that. Zoom and teams for online meetings, we do use the student will for new clients. So getting some of that initial data in. I’ve used for a long time. And that’s probably the main one. So we use planner for managing sort of tasks and things I’ve never done tasks in explain. We did get by explain one. So with my original licensee, when we left, they just deleted everything. So we kind of were hesitant and build everything out in to explain again. So we’ve we have gone a little bit outside of that. But it’s that same thing of trying to have 10 Different software’s we’re logging into it now trying to trying to find solutions that might not be perfect, but they sort of thinking to each other as well.

Ben Nash
Yeah, for us, I’ve found that we’ve recently come while it’s actually the first time I’ve used x plan in the business, but we tried a few different solutions. And yeah, I’ve found that using having multiple systems where you’re and we had tasks in all sorts everything from Google Docs, we added in Asana for a while, we used a thing called Rioch which I think I leveraged from someone in the XY network for a while went to practice sigh like, then having it across multiple systems, it just, it’s challenging a little bit for one person, or like, you know, for a small team, but then when you’ve got multiple people across all the things that it just became so complex and difficult to manage. They’re having an integrated solution. And I don’t think it still blows me away that I don’t think there’s any perfect solution out there. I think a lot of them are like you say it’s sort of what you make of it. And I’m hopeful that that technology will evolve to the point that we can, yeah, get get more of those things in one solution. But yeah, one moment. And but having it all integrated into one is is significantly more significantly easier from an operations workflow perspective than doing it trying to patch it together and a whole bunch of different ways.

Shaun Hunt
It’s hard, because some of them do provide the almost the perfect solution for each individual thing. But when you put them all together, like you said, it just becomes a mess. Yeah.

Ben Nash
That’s right. And they still don’t talk to each other, which seems like it seems like it should be simple. But I think that that’s the challenging part of tech is that you go well, that’s that should be easy. But that’s often always the hardest. The hardest thing, just talking on on the like efficiency, and maybe tech, maybe not tech, but like, with the learnings that you’ve had over the over the last, you know, almost 10 years. If you were to go back to the start thinking about your workflows and how you’re working with clients, what would you do differently there?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, I think you’re getting your service offering, as clear as possible early is pretty important. So again, when I started, I was trying to do everything for everyone. And, you know, I work predominantly their retirement space. And when I’m dealing with those clients, we have everything, we need to have all the conversations, we need to have all the tools to help educate them. And when I’m working with younger clients, as I said, we do a lot. And, you know, I did, the previous advisor I worked for was, as a lot of the older advisors was a big risky back in the day. So there was a big focus when I was sort of learning and being mentored by him around the importance of insurance. And I’ve had a lot of claims that reinforced that. So they’re the two key areas, I sort of can help the stock outs and help the retirees. But when I’ve tried to, again, like you said before, build on other services. So I’ve tried, I don’t know how you do it, but I’m very impressed by how you do it, the cash flow side of things. I’ve tried almost every piece of software to get that right. And I’ve never been able to quite get the clients on board or we’ll get the right model. So when I deal with younger clients, we do talk about cash flow and spending plans, all those things, but I don’t I don’t set up the structures or track it for them. We just have those ongoing conversations and I cross my fingers when they leave the office they have somewhat of an idea of what they’re doing. But when you do like when I deal with those clients, we call it sort of a foundational plan. So getting the structures in the initial setup, right. And, you know, for some of those clients, we don’t have necessarily an ongoing advice relationship, we just sort of set them up and say, you know, come back when something changes or when you need to still stay in touch with them, obviously. But you know, as I said, again, when I started each and every client there was this mindset of you know, they have to be an ongoing client whereas now it’s not. They’re not quite there yet. Now we can help them and obviously get get paid for them. work that needs to be done. But they don’t have to be an ongoing client. They can just be someone that we help when the time is right in the future as well.

Ben Nash
Maybe you don’t need overthink it with the tech around that cash flow piece and Excel spreadsheet and a bank account or maybe five, maybe other feed. If if if you want to track it ongoing and

Shaun Hunt
just never really looked at every rock I’ve looked at, obviously. Yeah, anything anyone’s put out? Just quite quite? Well, leave that one to the professionals like you.

Ben Nash
Look, I think that that cash flow piece has been a journey that I Yeah, it’s certainly challenging. And it’s challenging with because everyone’s different in terms of the way that they want to manage their their cash flow as well. So I think that the lesson that I’ve found with trying to within the early days, we tried to flex on it and do it differently for different people. But I found that that just doesn’t work. And now we just have the conversation upfront with people to say, look, this is this is our solution, we do it in this way. Because we’ve found it to be really effective across everybody, it does mean that you’re going to need to bend a little bit. But at the end of the day, you’re coming to us because we’re the experts here. And if you want us to help you, we have to be able to help you plus the other people that walk through the door after you and therefore, you know, you need to use a solution that works across those as well. That was a bit of a mindset shift for me in terms of the conversation with people, but I found it well received. And I think if it sometimes people will oftentimes people are just happy to lean into a system if they know that it’s going to work. But you absolutely need to have the i’s dotted and T’s crossed I think before you jump in otherwise it as soon as because with cash flow in particular, people are almost looking for an excuse to be in

Shaun Hunt
They want a break. Yeah.

Ben Nash
So if you give them that opportunity, they’ll exploit it and then blowing their budget. So I’d say that that’s probably K but yeah, the find that you find something that works for the business works for the clients, and it’s yet super, super helpful. If we get something in something. It’s such a small thing. But it’s something that consistently like when we get our clients to come on to the podcast, they often talk about the spreadsheet and the bank accounts is one of the biggest things even though might save them half a million bucks in tax, their business restructuring or something like that. But yeah, $300 a week spending allowance.

Shaun Hunt
That’s the one that’s the key. Yeah.

Ben Nash
Maybe I could, I could honestly probably talk about that all day. But I won’t bend your ear off on cash flow. My last question then for you and really appreciate you sharing your insights. But if you could go back to yourself day one of opening the, you know, rolling down the shingle for the business and opening the doors, what would be the one piece of advice you would give yourself?

Shaun Hunt
Yeah, well, I think you know, when you care about what you do, and you know what you’re doing, and it’s being confident in our advice, and like you just said, then it’s the clients are coming to us seeking our guidance. And sometimes you get hesitant that, you know, what you’re doing is not quite right for them. But when you know what you’re doing. And, you know, as I said, you really care about the clients, like I’d say this to my clients in the retiree space that I give them the same advice I’d give to my mum. And that’s all my data should should listen to. But there were other women up having more than dad. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. He wouldn’t get but it’s it’s just having that confidence that you know, we are we’re all trying to do the right thing for our clients. We’re trying to help them obviously, the cost of doing so have changed a lot in the last few years. But at the end of the day, you know, there’s only so many people you can help you just gotta be confident in what you’re doing. And know you’re doing the right thing for me if I don’t want to do it, that’s fine, because there’s someone else that is willing to take the advice but it’s really you know, if you know what you’re doing, you know you’ve got the right solution and just just backing yourself to keep pushing.

Ben Nash
I love it. I love it. Some good insights there mate. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Really appreciate it. Yeah, love it. Oh, good. Keep on that cash flow kit train. Go away. All right. Cheers guys. Catch you next time.