#277 Adele Martin – Transcript

Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben Nash from XY advisor here. And today I’m really excited to be here with a good mate of mine, Adele Martin, money mentor, gun advisor, marketing superstar, Adele is new, he sort of based loosely runs a scale tech driven sort of advice and financial education business has recently exited her one on one advice business, which is a whole story in itself, no doubt. And he’s doing a bit of a new project around helping advisors as well. So I’m keen. I am not underplaying the fact that Adele is a superstar when it comes to marketing, so keen to unpack some of those insights and talk about some of the lessons that she’s learned on her journey of actually, I won’t say how many years but it’s a long time, she’s learned a lot of things. So Adele, thanks for joining us.

Adele Martin
Thank you so much for having me happy to be here.

Ben Nash
Look, I’m keen to jump into the some of the growth and marketing hacks that you found to be helpful for you. But before we do, I’m keen to selfishly pick your brain a little bit on teams and team growth. I know we’re hiring at the moment, have been hiring for a while trying to, you know, find advisors and other team members in the business. And I think that, you know, as your business grows, you come to that realization that the team is is is all important, in fact, ends up being the actual business for you. And you’ve had a few different iterations of the work that you’ve done. But what have been the big lessons that you have learned around building a great team?

Adele Martin
Yeah, so lots of lessons that I’ve learned. Firstly, I think taking a step back and seeing where the bottlenecks are the business actually are. So rather than just chucking people at it, where the actual problems so as an example, you know, when I first started early on, you know, I didn’t necessarily need a PA, I could use technology to solve my problem, like using calendar bookings. So I’m always firstly, before I just hire people, I always think, can I try and automate or use technology to solve these problems? First, what am I trying to solve? So that’s the first thing once, the other thing that I’ve tried to do. So that’s one example calendar bookings as a simple one, the other one is, you know, how do I do I need another advisor? Or is there a way that I can just reduce the time that I spend with clients, so but still give them an amazing value and incredible experience. So one of the things we’ve done is we’ve automated the onboarding experience. And so I’ve got a program that they would go through before they saw me one on one as an advisor. So you know, is the step one, a welcome video, this is what working together is going to look like? Video two would be, you know, module two would be around goal setting, and the clients would do a lot of the legwork that would normally get done one on one by themselves. Step three would be risk profiling, and questionnaire and all the stuff that I would usually explain one on one. So yeah, I’m always thinking do I actually need to, you know, employ people, because employing people, you know, you got to find them, you’ve got to onboard them, mentor and train them, it’s a big time and money. So don’t do I actually have to do that. And then the second thing is, if I do need to have a team, and I’ve worked and trained lots of advisors in my time, you know, be really clear about what their role is going to be, you know, have a training plan that documents what you want to achieve by when, so that everyone’s expectations are super clear. Most people just want to know, if they’re doing a good job, and how they even know they’re doing good job. You know, so we really need to make that clear, by the end of week one, this is what we expect by the end of week, like first month, this is what we expect, and then have, you know, those regular schedule check in so you could make sure that they’re doing it. So yeah, I think that’s that’s definitely something, you know, I’d say is get really clear about your expectations. And then the other thing I think about is, you know, can this position be part time it doesn’t necessarily have to be full time, particularly if you’re growing and scaling a business. You know, you might not have you know, the the budget to employ someone full time, but maybe you could make them full time job part time and then overtime, increase it. So that’s worked really well for me, I can they work from home. So I know now in the new COVID world, working from home is sort of the norm. I’ve worked from home for five and have a virtual business for five plus years. And that really allowed me to have a team from anywhere in Australia or the world. So think about can this be virtual? Because that’s going to expand my reach not just for marketing for clients, but for my team as well. And then lastly, sorry, I’m talking Holly poop information.

Ben Nash
Yeah. I want the gold. Oh,

Adele Martin
yeah. Ah, the other thing I think is super critical is make especially if you’re running a virtual team, it’s just having those regular daily checking points with your team. That 10 minute huddle at the start. it. So the huddle from us would look like you know, looking at diary, what’s coming up today? And then how did that calendar appointment get in there that needs to be moved? Or has that been done so that that’s the first thing. And then everyone goes around and says, What were their top three tasks from yesterday? Are they done not done or in progress? So and then we say, what are our top three tasks for today? And then we say, is there any robot blocks, challenges, issues that you need help with? So we have a little framework that we use to, you know, make sure that we are connecting with people with our team every day. And so yeah, that’s a little framework that we’re using top three tasks. And yesterday, top three tasks for the day. ROBLOX challenges issues? Yeah. So that they’re the they’re the the sort of information. But that’s, that’s some some tips on hiring.

Ben Nash
Yeah, look, I think that that team rhythm becomes all important. And there’s a lot of different ways like there are some elements that I think are helpful across a lot of businesses. And then there’s also, you know, every business is a little bit different. So finding out what works for you. But one of the big things that I’ve learned is that there is a, there’s a difference between having great team members and having a great team. And I think both of those, like, yes, you need to focus on bringing great team members in but then you need to focus on how do you work as a team, you know, making sure you’re creating a really positive environment for people to be really excited to go to work every day, whether that’s a virtual environment, or whether it’s a physical environment, or whether it’s some sort of combination, which is probably more common these days. And then, you know, interactions and how do we communicate and all these things. It’s like a whole whole nother facet, which I had never thought of, it’s just like God, just, you know, make sure that there’s good work to be done. And then let’s, let’s do our best to getting some good people in. But I think the more that you lean into that how we’re working together, then the more you get out of your people, and even those little things, well, little things not so little things like having those clear progression milestones and giving people feedback, I found that our team really appreciate, you know, more than we sometimes think as, as advisors or, you know, leaders in a business as well. So, yeah, look, I appreciate those insights. I just made a whole bunch of notes. There’s been chatting as well. Dale, I’m keen to talk a bit about growth, because I know that you, you grew a financial planning business, you’ve now got the my money, buddy course, which is the the education and sort of fully tech driven know, one on one stuff. You know, we’re just chatting online about the fact that you’re not having to do sales calls or meetings, and a lot of it’s sold on chat and delivered sort of at scale. And I know from the you know, the sort of previous conversations that we’ve had, that you’ve had some pretty tremendous growth around that. What do you think have been the biggest drivers all of that growth?

Adele Martin
Yeah, so I think a couple of things. Firstly, I’ve always invested in myself, so working with a coach or going to conferences, you know, overseas. So I think that’s the first thing. And I think about what I’ve spent on that. And you know, it’s a very big number. But I would have got the growth I have if I didn’t have that. So I think that’s been important. The other thing is, I’ve also focused on not just marketing the lead gen, like lead generation is one thing, what I’ve learned is that nurture piece after you get them into your world, how do you nurture them? That nurture piece is really important for building trust. So when I’m talking about nurture, I’m talking about using a Facebook group using a podcast using email, to build up that trust with them. So yeah, that that nurture piece has really helped. And it’s really improved my sales process, because by the time someone comes and sees you, they feel like they already know you. Our podcast is particularly great for that. No, someone’s listened to me for 26 hours on a podcast. They already they already know me. They’ve listened to all my episodes. They know my kids names. Yeah. So yeah, I think that’s that’s been really important. That part of it as well. The other thing I’ve done with marketing, which is I don’t rely on centers of influences for lead early on, I did do that. You know, I’ve done I’ve done the BNI early on very early on. I just never liked that it was always a bit hit or miss, you know, whether the accountant was busy or not busy. You know, whether I got lead coming to edge, I just felt like I was flogging a dead horse having to educate and tell them what to say and how to say it and, you know, yeah, so I have usually gone away from that center of influence stuff not to say I don’t do and I’m happy to share one of the strategies that I’ve used instead of importances that actually had worked for me. One of the best influences that continues to work for me is working with business coaches. So I’ll talk about that. But I don’t want them just to be my my main focus is I generate the leads myself, and so that way I have more control about it. The other area, which has driven my business growth, and this is sometimes a little bit scary, is being okay with making mistakes. So not everything is going to work first time. In fact, some things aren’t going to work at all. And yes, so I think, you know, you, you only grow and learn if you’re making mistakes. So that’s that’s part of it and not seeing mistakes as this bad thing. Like at school, we get a cross or a tick and cross, it’s seen as a bad thing, you know, you fail, well, actually, it’s actually an opportunity to learn. And so I think about my daughter who’s learning to walk at the moment, if she would have, you know, the first time she fell over, if she would have not got back up, she would never have now learned to walk. So that, yeah, those mistakes are part of life. And so, you know, knowing that your mistakes and a bad thing that just made you learning and growing. So that’s been the other big thing, my mindset mindset around mistakes and seeing them as not a bad thing. But it’s actually a great thing, because it means you’re learning and growing, it means you’re taking risks.

Ben Nash
Hmm, yeah, I think that you can’t get everything right all the time. And I think if you’re worried about either making things perfect or never making mistake, you’re never going to do anything. But the I also I like you, I, when I started my business, I never wanted to rely on the traditional sort of centers of influence or referral partners to grow my business, because I always felt that, you know, then you’re reliant on them. And I suppose now unfortunately, we do have a couple of really good all like a handful of good partners that that introduce us to people when they feel that we can help them. But there’s still the vast majority of the clients that we get as self generated through our content and nurture. And obviously, referrals from clients as your business grows as well, because I think, you know, for me is the other downside of those, the referral partner or centers influence type referrals is that we’ve, for my business, we’ve got a really set sort of client that we want to work with, you know, the ones that we confident we can add a ton of value to that are at a certain life stage that are of a certain psychographic, as well as just a certain financial position. And I’ve found that where you have people in your network that introduce people in the past that sometimes you almost feel like a bit of an obligation to, you know, if someone isn’t the right, the right fit, not to squeeze them into your model, but then to spend more time with them so that you feel like you’re, you know, making them really happy. And then they go back to the person and say that they had a really great experience where sometimes if you, if that person had just come, you know, randomly and put an inquiry through the website, or booked up a call or something, you might say, Look, you know, we’re just not the right business for you. And you better off doing this or this instead. So I think it’s, yeah, I think that they all have their merits. And I know that there’s a lot of advisors that have built great businesses that just around that, and I think, good luck to you for cracking the code. But I think regardless, even if you are doing that really well, that knowing how you can sort of make it rain on your own is goes a long way to you controlling your own your own destiny. So I’m keen to unpack that need a little more detail? What are some of the key marketing channels that you have used? And what have you found what worked for you? And what hasn’t worked? So well?

Adele Martin
Yes. So being a guest on other people’s podcasts that’s worked really well, I do a regular radio show. I’ve also build up my PR list a lot. So, you know, now I regularly get called for, you know, gun full feature articles in places like Mamma mia, which for my audiences, you know, a great thing, a lot of eyes on a place like Mamma Mia. So yeah, that sort of stuff. You know, webinars and speaking events for business coaches. So that’s worked, you know, really well, because they often have an accountant who does their business side of stuff. But they don’t have anyone that’s ever talked to them about their personal finances. So, you know, this, they start to sort of get, oh, I should actually not just have my eggs in this business basket, I should start to build my wealth. And so yeah, you know, business coaches want to add value to their clients, and they continually looking for more more information and education for them. So, you know, I can add value that way, make them look like a superstar give great content, but at the same time, I’m adding my list as well. So, yeah, and I find that business clients too, are more likely to invest in themselves, you know, it’s easy for them to, you know, paying for things, you know, it’s not a foreign concept, you know, and paying for coaching. So, you know, that that’s worked really well, I get lots of leads, and during that add value to that audience build buying as well. I’ve done the same thing for mortgage brokers as well. So I’ve worked with a few mortgage brokers where, you know, they might have a podcast or they might have a Facebook group and I’ve done some, you know, a five day challenge or something inside those groups. So that’s worked as well as well. How I use that is I’m very strategic about making sure I’m always driving traffic from those things into my Facebook group. So, and I’ll say stuff like, say I’m on a, you know, a radio interview. And they’re asking me about how to get more, you know how to drive growth, or how to get more income or something like that. I’ll say, you know, actually, we have a cheat sheet on that on how to ask for a pay rise in our Facebook group is saving squad, we’ve got like a really detailed process that goes through that, or actually, we’ve got a script on how to negotiate your bills and what to do if they say no, so I just I strategically mentioned it to make sure we’re driving traffic to the Facebook group. And then inside the Facebook group on entry, I’m asking three questions. So one of the questions is, do you want to work with me something like do you want to work with me on your money plan? Or something like that? Or during create something like that? Not quite exactly. But there’s a question saying you want to work with me? And when they say yes, that’s a trigger for us to have a conversation. And so also, as part of that opt in, I’m asking them, do you want our new case study that shows how they went from its credit card debt to investing? Do you want that case study, drop your email below, they drop their email, and then we send them a, a case study via email, and now we’ve got their email address, and then they go into a nurture process. So everything top of funnel drives them to the Facebook group, the Facebook group, we asked three questions. One of the questions is, you know, getting an email address, which is important for for nurturing. The third question is, do you want to work with me? And they say, yes, that lesson started chat conversation with people that are hot. So yeah, that’s worked really well. And then inside the Facebook group, we are doing things regularly in there to be able to drive engagement. So yeah, a challenge was one of the things we did an investment challenge. We’ve done savings challenge, we’ve done lots of different things inside that group. So yeah, that’s that’s going to be my focus this year is doing more inside that group driving activity and engagement. Because that’s people in their mind being ready, you know, six to 12 months ago, but are now ready now. And if you’re not constantly asking them, you miss those people. So yeah, they’re the that’s sort of what’s working, you know, well for me, is that now all that process happens automatically. We don’t manually add people to an email list or anything like that. We use a software called group funnels, that connects Facebook to our CRM that we use, we use Kajabi as their CRM, they talk to each other. And all that happens automatically. You set this up once the all those questions that email nurture, and then you never have to do it again.

Ben Nash
I love the automation piece. And I think it’s, it’s so important, especially when you are, you know, like it’s a volume game as much as it’s not to say that, you know, it’s just about pumping more people in obviously, it’s got to be the right people that are getting the right value that are going to get the right results and and be happy at the back end. But especially the more scale you want your and more efficient you want. You know what you’re doing to be that the more you need to leverage that. Tell us Adele, you were chatting a little bit. Just before we kicked off about like email, content and nurture nurturing from that. What’s What are some of the learnings you’ve had there? I like to answer that one. First. I got a follow up for you as well.

Adele Martin
Okay, so I think the thing is our email a couple of years ago, I didn’t realize how important email was a year or so ago, I started concentrating on it more. And it is super important, but for a couple of reasons. One, I don’t know, in Facebook, they could change everything tomorrow. And you know, I could lose all those emails. So those, that’s one thing. So the second thing is people actually still checking emails. So you know, I still get really good open rates on email. So and it’s a way to build up that trust with people. So and again, people might have been ready 612 months ago, now maybe they’re married and had kids now they actually want to do something or they’ve just turned 30 or 40. Yes, I do want to do something. So yeah, that email nurture. If you’re not constantly doing that you actually miss. You can miss a lot of people. So yeah, the email is really important. So I send a weekly email, and I know people other people in the marketing space, you know, send two or three emails a week. I just sent one a week. And yeah, that that works has worked really well. For me, we get leads every week from email.

Ben Nash
I found I was just telling you before, but we started doing a weekly newsletter. Every Sunday, I started you know, just on it was actually January was the first one that we’d sent out and I’ve done a bunch of different things before. And like inconsistently, I would say or tried in sort of fits and starts and you We’ve done it now every single week for for a bit over a year. And I’ve found that it’s amazing how many people I think it’s like 8% of our new clients that that is their source, which, obviously they’ve people come from a whole bunch of different channels. But that’s amazing. It’s just one little thing. And it’s like, you know, ours is essentially content that we’re, most of the content is stuff that we’ve got either on our podcast or social media posts or different things, but it’s just there in a way that people you know, it hits them virtual tap on the shoulder, it’s easy to read, digest and, and action. And I yeah, I’ve actually been surprised how well that’s work from a feedback perspective, traction, and ultimately, you know, that the inbound inquiries off the back of it.

Adele Martin
Yeah, absolutely. I am also a big fan of because sometimes people who ask talking, you’re gonna want to work. But it’s actually not what I wanted to pick up on something that you just said, which was we have one this content already exists. Financial Advisors have so much content that marketing and nurture is actually easy for us to do if we’ve got a process in place. So for me, I do a weekly q&a In my Facebook group anyway, into to my clients and my money, buddy. My assistant takes up to use a program called and it’s got Ottery OTT. Yes. So she takes that and create email from it. She puts a blog star posts for Facebook, she creates a carousel for Instagram, she takes it quote from and creates a meme. So she’s got oodles of staff for one thing that I’ve done. So we’ve just refined that process over time. So when I do the training, now, the Facebook group, I make sure I stick to a certain structure, so it’s easy for her to go. Okay, well, this is the intro, these are the five points, this is the conclusion that she can take it and run with it a lot easier. So yeah, I’ve given them great value to my community. And we’ve got oodles of stuff, email and Facebook and Instagram.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally, I find like for us we do because I’m doing the podcast I normally do, I run my own podcast, the pivot. And if we do two of those sessions week, and then the team click them into different videos, and they post a video, I think maybe even two videos a day goes across a bunch of channels, those bits and the summary that goes with them just gets snipped in with, you know, money half of the week. It’s one of the ones they’ve just pulled out. One that’s a hot money mistake of the week and so on. One of the ones is a mistake. And then they put that in and just write a little blurb about it. Like it’s no extra work

Adele Martin
process, what what you’ve got is a process. And I think that’s key. Anything, any part of the business, but particularly with marketing, you know, it’s not people, that is one thing that you can do that’s going to magically give you all these clients. It’s not it’s just consistency. And it’s having a process and doing consistency consistently, which is not exciting. But that’s that’s what works.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally. And I think that with marketing, because it’s like so many gurus out there, and there’s all this noise online, I know that I’ve fallen into this trap as well that early on in my business, I felt like I needed to be doing all of the things and it’s like you’ve got obviously Facebook or Instagram, there’s tick tock now you do your email marketing, Facebook ads, like there’s all these things and you try to do all of them and it’s like you’re you’re playing surface level in unable to focus on focus on them. But I’ve found that for me, like focusing in and just going okay, I just want this one thing we need LinkedIn, I did LinkedIn day in and day out, I still do it day in and day out for you know, six years I’ve been on that one channel and after a while it started to build some traction as you say, put a bit of a process behind it. And then we added on we add on some video content, I started doing some video content and did that for a while and then started slowly building a bit of momentum with heavy YouTube stuff then we started out a podcast to it afterwards. But it’s only once you’ve you can focus in on your staff polish up something that works to the point that you want it to be get someone else to support you in in doing it that you can nail it unless you’ve got a super massive team that’s well resourced that can you know do all of that stuff but it’s easy to get lost and then people go oh shit, this isn’t working. So I’ll just give up and then you know that doesn’t work or whatever and it’s just still that that frustration. Adele would you mentioned like email versus the Facebook group and I have to say I’ve never done you know, Facebook groups for my advice business. I know that you do it amazingly well, in that saving squad community. What is the difference with the the approach to content between, you know, the different channels like email email in particular versus something like a Facebook group? Is it a slightly different strategy or format? I know that you said you’re repurposing content from the other channels. But yeah, is it a different strategy or is it just Yeah,

Adele Martin
so I’ve got two Facebook groups. One is just for people. with my clients that have paid me, and then one is the free community. So yeah, so what I’ve done inside the savings squad, the free community is we’ve done more like money master classes and five day challenges and things like that to really drive engagement. So we did that last year, a five day investment challenge. And so rather than starting I know some people when I do challenges start a new group, I just use my existing group and get it inside there. So we’ve done the money masterclass, which is, you know, that 3045 minute webinar, and I call it a webinar money masterclass. So, I’ve used it to do that inside there. So I don’t necessarily think for me personally posting every day and stuff in there. You know, I haven’t been doing that. But when I do an event, when I do like a challenge or a money masterclass, I’ve used it for that purpose. So, and then it also serves as people when they enter arting, that question, do you want to work with me and getting the email addresses? So yeah, that that’s where we’ve sort of done it. And then the email is where we’re just sending out, you know, the weekly sort of new I never ever would call it a newsletter, but a weekly summary of what we’re so sometimes I do different types of emails, I changed it up. So I would do more of teach style email, and then I do more of a story style email. And then I do a really short, sharp email. So you know, a little nine word, or are you still looking to start investing this year? Or get you super sorted this year? So that those short, sharp emails work really well, because people think you’re talking to them, and they reply back to you and have a conversation. So I mix up, you know, that’s a sales email stuff, that sales conversation. So those short, sharp emails work really well, you can’t do them all the time. I do monitor those a month. And then we’ve got different sorts of emails, you know, around the month, send them over teaching different different sort of stuff stuff.

Ben Nash
Yeah, I think I think ultimately, in the beauty of the software that’s out there these days is it gives you the insights as to what works and what doesn’t, so you can test and measure but yeah, I had a

Adele Martin
very sharp, they short emails have been working very well. Yeah, I’ve been engaged engagement. Yep.

Ben Nash
I think is well, one of the things that I found is that in the subject line, having them quite short and cryptic, and sometimes, like, not capitalizing letters in the correct way, which actually stressed me out a bit, because I’m super anal with stuff. You put a question in there and make it a bit weird. And people like shit, what’s that all actually all? Open it up? Oh, that’s actually that’s interesting. I’m going to engage with that. So yeah, I think makes makes a different subject

Adele Martin
heading isn’t is as important or more important than the email body itself. And so yeah, 100%. So I think I was just trying to think of the one I sent recently in the new year. I’ll see if I can get it up, because that one worked really well. Yeah, it was. I’ll see if I can find it while we’re talking. But yeah, I think definitely having an email strategy is important. And yeah, it just keeps you front of mind with everyone.

Ben Nash
One of my best subject lines was just money plans. And it was like knots, no capital or money. And then no question mark, or anything, I think is got some crazy open rate and response rate off the back of it as well that I think people get so much noise that you got to sort of do try different things that are different. They don’t always work. Like we say, Don’t be afraid of making a mistake, but they’re different different things to see what gels with your audience and your list as well.

Adele Martin
Yeah, so the one I had was working together. That was the last one that I sent and I got a really good response to just said working together. And then I’ve just said, you know the name I’m going to work with a handful of clients in January would you like to work with me? I know what the mistake that I’ve made early on is not asking doing all these marketing. Yeah. We’re taking on new clients. Yeah, so

Ben Nash
yeah, it’s really easy to fall into that trap and you don’t want the same then you get a bit gun shy and you don’t want to be too pushy. And so you fall into this give value give value give value, but sometimes just asking the question

Adele Martin
Yeah, yeah, that was the other one quick question was another one that it said quick question was the subject heading that worked really well? Yeah, so yeah, lots of but yeah, you’re the subject heading is as important as the actual email itself and ask you for a sales email every now and again like that night work. Hey, do you still want to help sort new super people? Yeah, I didn’t want to absorb myself. But yes. Those sort of ones that really important to do as well?

Ben Nash
Yeah, I think the key is really being consistent and just trying things so that you can see what works and then building on the learning From that, Adele, as you know, I love marketing, and I could talk about this stuff all day. But I know you’re busy lady. So I really appreciate you sharing your insights. I’m keen, though to for people that are interested to learn more about the the advisor support, mentoring type setup that you’re doing. Can you give us the big picture on that? And how people can learn more?

Adele Martin
Yes, so I just had a special round number birthday. So I’m okay to say I’m 40 now, and that that tripped over to me, half my life has been in a nice meal. So it’s now made me think about, well, how do I want to contribute? How do I want to give back to this amazing industry, I see so many advisors struggling and doing stuff, you know, a hard way, don’t just think if I could help support them and give back, that would be amazing. So now I’ve got my business to a place where I can do that. Now, I haven’t worked effectively a very scaled model. And I have, you know, the kids in daycare, I have more time to give. So yeah, I’m really excited to now to work more with advisors to support them and to mentor advisors. So yeah, I really want to help them to see how valuable I know they know how valuable they are, but make sure they’re charging for what they’re worth. That they’re you know that they understand how they can easily do marketing and not be something that’s a burden. That, you know, serving clients doesn’t have to be hard, we can make it easier by doing a few simple things. We don’t have to work 100 hour weeks. So yeah, I just really excited to be able to give value and supported by others this year. And so yeah, if anyone wants to is looking for support, to grow and scale their business, happy to have a chat to them. They can find me Adele martin.com, they’ll find me. I’m always in the x y group. I love that group that you guys have created. I think it’s an amazing community. So happy to have a chat about you know what that might look like.

Ben Nash
Awesome. Well, I know from from the conversations that we’ve had over the last sort of, you know, it’s been a long time. But some of the insights are there. So for anyone that is keen to do better on growth, which I think is pretty much almost everyone, feel free to reach out to Adele and do yourself a favor. Adele, thank you again really appreciate you sharing your insights.