#252 Neil Rogan – Transcript

SPEAKERS

Neil Rogan, Fraser Jack

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack and today I am joined by Neil Rogan, who is the head of wholesale partnerships at Russell investment. Welcome, Neil.

Neil Rogan 

Thanks, Fraser. It’s great to be here today.

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic to chat to you. You know, I’ve been quite excited with some of the stuff that’s been coming out of Russell, the the actual value of advice report that was recently released. And I figured that we should definitely chat about it. But before we before we get into that, tell us about tell us quickly about you and what your role contains.

Neil Rogan 

Thanks for it. So well, my role at Russell is head of wholesale partnerships, it’s really to assist licensees advisors and platforms with their investment solutions. But in addition to that, Russell was a global company has a raft of practice management solutions. And, and one of those solutions includes this report, which we’ve been doing for over four years in Australia, and it’s really something were incredibly proud of, in terms of supporting advisors and their clients and the broader advice industry.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Fantastic. Now, it’s obviously, as you mentioned, four years in for doing this report releasing every year, it’s fascinating when you’ve been doing something for four years, and you start seeing the results come in. And you’re right. And, you know, this is something that I’ve heard, and I’ve spoken about many times in the past, which is, you know, what is the the tangible amount of money or percentage that a financial advisor or financial planner Can, can can provide by advising clients?

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, I mean, you know, we’re seeing the rise of, you know, what I would call many armchair experts, outside of our financial planning industry, and, you know, be really great to have some of them actually joined the industry as part of our succession and go through the qualifications and, and the exams and everything that our financial advisors go through. But what we’ve tried to do in this report is really help advisors and their clients articulate the qualitative and the quantitative value that that advisors provide. And that ranges from everything to, to the peace of mind, or what I would call the sleep at night test that, that clients get all the way through to, to ensuring you’ve got the correct asset allocation. And what we’ve found on an annual basis that actually seeking effective financial planning advice leads to about a 5.2% return over the lifetime of a client, which is around 20 to 25 years.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, this is really interesting. So this is not just a 5.2% return, this is an additional 5.2% return, isn’t it? That’s right. So if we go if we take a step back and look at obviously, this is, you know, the fourth year of the report, tell us about that history. Tell us about that. Has it been any changes over that time,

Neil Rogan 

there have been changes in the in the figure, and that’s really in relation to, to a couple of things. Firstly, it’s in relation to, you know, the tax and that the the, the opportunities that exist around, yeah, tax rates and tax advantages through the superannuation scheme, and clearly around asset allocation and markets, but if you look at your around behaviors, and and how clients allocate to cash, those things have remained relatively stable over over the last four years. And, and the percentage amount has remained somewhere between, you know, 4.9. And, you know, what do we have today 5.2 5.2% over the over that period. I think the other point for us is that we don’t have the business without the support of the advisors at a global level. And therefore, this type of report is something we do at a at a global level and we apply the figure and and also the various behaviors and attributes at a local level. So I like to say we’re a global company, we have global frameworks that we apply locally for the benefit of our clients and their advisors.

Fraser Jack 

love a good night at work Glocal

Neil Rogan 

nothing like the creation of a noun. Yeah,

Fraser Jack 

yeah. Well, I know that’s how a podcast was created two words put together. Hey, let’s let’s get into the let’s get into this the study behind it because it’s it’s good to have a report but we also want to know about the numbers behind it. And I’m looking here that there was about 8000 individuals from a promote from a size of a study, as you mentioned before, you’ve got global research as well as regional and local data tell tell us about the actual study itself? Yep.

Neil Rogan 

So we use local data and after that, that we have based on the magnitude of our advise clients, and we use that to determine these numbers. And that’s why you’re saying things like, the expertise that that we say that that’s actually priceless, because you can put a figure on the education, the engagement, the efficiency, and the enrichment that the financial planners expertise adds to their clients lives?

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I think I think that with within the expertise, and we’ll get into those, those particular areas, or you know, there’s principles in a moment, but then there is, there is an area there that you talked about expertise, and we’ll get sort of get to it there. But I think a lot of it is around that emotional, trying to find some tangible emotional growth, which, which I’m keen to get second to. So just just, when I, when I look at the paper itself, and I look at the report, I you know, it’s fairly clearly broken up into sort of five sections, the in about 5.2% comes, is made up of five different areas. And we’ll probably, I think the probably the best thing to do is to go through all those, but before we do it sort of sit out as ABC, E and T, let’s just quickly go through one that ABC, E and T.

Neil Rogan 

Yep. So yeah, I it’s not really for Apple as we teach our children, it’s actually for asset allocation, and ensuring that, you know, the asset allocation matches, matches the client’s life stage and also matches a client’s propensity or, or risk profile, the is around a range of behaviors. And, and there are a number of behaviors. And we’ll go into these, I find this and the expertise, two of the most fascinating things around financial advice, and I think most advisors would find those things, you probably the most fascinating sees for cash, and really around how you optimize what you’re holding in cash. So that’s the ABC, we don’t have D at the moment, but I would like us to have one one day, then. Yeah, that’s right, we’ll create one we’ve got a G now is for expertise and the expertise that advisors bring to the party and then tiers for tax. And that’s, that’s really around the the tax efficiency of how portfolios are managed, but also taking advantage of, of certain tax benefits that may exist within the structures for for various, various types of clients. And that ranges from everything from your the various government allowances that are available for retirees, to people in aged care, all the way through to your childcare allowances and those kinds of things.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, yeah, it takes it takes is a big area, we’ll get to that. Obviously, if it was just tax deductions, then there’s your day, you could have slipped it in between, but that takes the biggest section then just deductions. Let’s Let’s kick it off. Let’s start with the appropriate asset allocation and make sure I get that word out. And that that’s that’s something that we’re contributing to 1.1% better off by, by consumers or clients having or knowing that they’re in the correct asset allocation.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, I think this Yeah, this is a fairly fundamental piece of financial planning. And certainly when I joined the industry many decades ago, it was a rule of your subtracting your age, away from 100. And that that portion of assets would go into growth assets, and the remainder would go into, into more, more conservative assets. But now this is there’s more of a blend of art and science into determining risk profiles, which which sits around you know, what client preferences, your, how long they’re wanting to work for, what their current ages, and so, really ensuring that you’re in the appropriate asset allocation that’s aligned to your goals and objectives rather than potentially selecting the default can lead to it can lead to a Yeah, a 1.1% difference, which is, you know, in in a very low return environment for cash at the moment 1.1% is potentially higher than the effective cash rate that we have today. Yeah.

Fraser Jack 

You mentioned the the concept of, you know, the understanding the consumer understanding or the knowledge gap that comes into that, how important is that the fact that, you know, like that feels to me, like a big chunk of this is around consumers not really being engaged with their asset allocation, because they’re just and they’re just not knowing.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And, and where the, where the advisor can make a difference is really actually sitting down with a client. And, and having a conversation about what risk is, and, and understanding their various risk tolerances. And those kinds of things I think, most people would think, and there’s a study that shows is that most people who are inside the Gen Y age group will want their superannuation savings in a in a guaranteed option. And, and is that really the best thing that they should be doing as a as a year, what’s Gen Y 2025 to 35 year old when, when potentially they’ve got 20, or 30 years of work ahead of them. And so having those kinds of conversations and making the various trade offs around having a portion may be in a guaranteed option. And in the larger mountain, your growth, your assets and those kinds of things is, is a worthy discussion?

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, it certainly is. And if you putting a number on it, because I think it’s a hard for hard for that generation to understand that paying a financial advisor, you know, a decent fee, will return them such a benefit, but actually having that number, and then to be able to quantify that over over their life, you know, life expectancy, or their, you know, their amount of time they have left between their now and when they retire, or when or between now, when they’re likely to engage a financial advisor is it’s probably an interesting conversation for advisors to lean into having these conversations with the younger client.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, oh, most definitely. Because, you know, these, these types of clients are likely to have the great, they’ve got the assets that are growing, as opposed to many clients who are, say, the baby boomer generation who would drawing down on assets. And then you’ve got people like me who are in the Gen X, or call myself the sandwich generation, younger children, school fees, and older parents. And so we’ve got we’ve got school fees for our for our kids, but also the thought of long term aged care for, for the likes of our parents. And again, asset allocation is important for people like ourselves myself, who are thinking about those kinds of things, and, and how you can walk the tightrope and balance both.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Fantastic. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any argument amongst our audience here with financial advisors thinking that asset allocation is important, clearly, they know this, but I think it’s really just good to have that number that 1.1% to be able to add to their conversations, their, their marketing, their whatever it might be. And I think this report, certainly, you know, provides the evidence behind that. So they appreciate that. Let’s get into the B, the B cell we’re talking about, as you mentioned before, a bit of a behavioral, you know, there’s a bit of behavioral science and behavioral coaching behavioral aspects of this, which I really like in either I think you will probably talk about this for a long period of time. So let’s get into that we sort of got a 2% number on the behavioral coaching side of it, talk us through that.

Neil Rogan 

Yep. So we’ve we’ve, you know, we’ve determined a 2% figure here, which is really a behavioral economic figure. But I think more broadly, you know, the role that a financial advisor plays in this space is, is really what I would call saving people from themselves. And so you’re being able to, to actually buy when when assets are priced appropriately and sell at the right time is really, really important. And one of the things many people do, and this is a study that we’ve done that. I think in the report, we talk about some analysis that we’ve done, from really I think from 1984, all the way through to 2021. And it’s around staying invested over that period of time, so it’s quite less 36 year period. Probably almost almost older than me Fraser this study, but what it what it does do is demonstrates the value of being invested over over a long period of time. And, and not actually, and what the price owed us here is actually holding your nerve. And what, what a lot of financial advisors do, and do really, really well is, is assist people in in holding their nerve when, when times and so good. So I love I love a good example, I think a great example would be something like afterpay. So as a share afterpay in March of last year, I think my day that you are nine or $10, or something like that. And so if I’d have bought after pay in December of 2019, and I get to march 2020. And after pay gets to $9. And I sell out afterpay today is trading at odd no $120. So it’s trading at $120. So I have stayed in I’ve had my conversation with my financial advisor and stayed in the market. Well, I’ve made a significant benefit over that period of time. And I think that’s a great example of looking at the fundamentals of where you’re invested, what you’re invested in making sure it’s aligned again, to your goals and objectives. And, and sticking to your strategy.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I think I think we’ve all seen the diagram, when we talk about, you know, the, the emotional investor versus the, you know, the practical law, you know, when when is the best time to invest and when is the when does everybody want to invest or feel like they need to get out, everybody sort of feels like they want to sell out at the bottom of market and they feel like they want to buy in at the top. And we all obviously we know, that’s the opposite. Talk to us about obviously, I think sort of COVID a really good example that advisors can can talk about, I think, you know, the what happened in March 2020, with Marcus dropping lunia you know, dropping off a cliff and then the rebound, has is a really recent example for people to really to bring home, when it comes to that conversation of when to buy and when to sell.

Neil Rogan 

Oh, most definitely. And if we look at your the increase, even in first time investors from March last year, all the way through to this year, I think there are close to 700,000 more investors who have actually purchased shares. So I think there was around 1.6 million people who had shares, and that has increased by another 700,000 over that period,

Fraser Jack 

that was gonna say that’s a very, very sharp increase.

Neil Rogan 

So we’re seeing, you know, people of all ages sitting at home, doing their, their own research and, and getting getting into the market. But again, these these first time investors, many of them are getting into areas potentially that they may or may not understand and, and, and probably more driven by the emotional side, as you say, driven by the emotions rather than a blend of both the emotions and the fundamentals around around what drives markets, what aligns to your goals. And how do you how do you how do you sell at the right time and buy at the right time?

Fraser Jack 

Yes eliminate fear of missing out because they’re jumping in as markets have already already gone through their their growth spurt and talk to me talk to me about the the emotional the behavioral coaching side of it, you know, of it, because I would have thought that 2% would be extremely high for for advisors who, who talked their clients out of taking the $10,000 out of super at the moment when it was at the moment when it was market to a low

Neil Rogan 

Yep. And I mean, this is really an average there may be there may be somewhere it it’s it’s significantly higher. And there there may be others were it’s it’s potentially negative territory. For someone like me, I’m probably a financial advisors worst nightmare, because I’m an opportunist. So I would be I would be the kind of person who would be who would be jumping on to everything, with the exception maybe crypto because I don’t understand that. But I’m happy to learn about it. But that certainly someone like myself, I need to be saved for myself. And so I think my number personally would actually be probably quite a lot higher because I’m likely to probably buy at the wrong time and sell at the wrong time. Because being an opportunist and also being potentially slightly emotional about about where markets are at where things are at, and reading the headlines, firstly, your people sometimes like they don’t want to miss out, and therefore will potentially sell at the wrong time and then buy at the wrong time. And, yeah, we only have to look at the headlines at the moment about housing in, in every capital city and every regional town in Australia to say that, you know, some people would think it’s easier to sit at home and just buy houses. And they would earn more money than actually having the prudence of working and saving and, and building a future retirement.

Fraser Jack 

Yes, I think I think some of that messaging is also within the within the media, and within the, there’s a lot of messaging out there, I guess, when it comes to, you know, what’s, what’s available. And there’s a lot of hype. And But yeah, I think this, I think this section of behaviors is is a super important part in that sort of, as we sort of mentioned, the first one, the first part about the asset allocation was 1.1. Behavioral coaching is is around as to, it takes up to 3.1 already better off over over a longer period of time. And just going going back to this study, of course, this is a lot of over a long period of time study, isn’t it?

Neil Rogan 

Yep. And yeah, what you can’t take away from this behavioral piece is the value of, of having someone what I would say, keeping you honest with, with what you’re wanting to do. And, you know, I know, of many people who wouldn’t, you know, buy a car or go on a holiday or do do anything without consulting their financial advisor first. And I think those types of relationships are those that those financial advisors have with their clients and, and continue to have with their clients, you know, a really, really deep and aligned to the financial advisor has worked closely with that client to understand their behaviors, their motivations, and, and really be their guide in all markets. And at all times.

Fraser Jack 

Yep, I was gonna say, I behaved better when I’ve got my accountability buddy. Next to me, or keeping me honest. So I think that you hit the nail on the head there with regards to, you know, having somebody to, you know, bounce those decisions off. so fantastic. That takes us through the behavioral section of the report. Let’s get into the sea.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, the sea, which is around, you know, really around. Yeah, not holding the cost of holding too much cash. And, and, you know, having that having that money invested and working for you, rather than rather than having it allocated to cash. You know, I could I could talk about this for 15 minutes. But I don’t want to say cash is boring. But you know, it’s really around how you optimize the assets that you have to invest to get the best kind of outcome that that matches your risk profile. And having an over allocation to cash may not be the most appropriate thing to do. And that is also dependent on the life stage of the client as well,

Fraser Jack 

your cash has been really interesting, isn’t it when it’s when it’s below inflation rates? And you know, the real return is in the negatives. And somebody posed to me the question was, does that make it a high risk asset? All of a sudden, constant, constant losses to your portfolio?

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, and not not potentially aligning to your purchasing power, particularly, particularly at the moment when there’s a there’s a threat of inflation and, and those kinds of things that that may or may not occur, but it’s really potentially sacrificing longer term returns for for the benefit of, of holding a high proportion of cash yet again, yeah, for retirees. You know, there’s a, there’s a reason why you would hold more cash for those types of people. But for those that are in the accumulation phase, or those who, who may be 10 years or 15 years from retirement, having an over allocation to cash may not be the most appropriate thing for for that client.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, no, I agree that and in the report, there’s words like you know, the real return on cash and the real cost of cash in the cash drag. Yes.

Neil Rogan 

Cash drag Which is it’s a bit like an airplane flying with its wheels down. It’s it’s understanding that the drag that that can have on your portfolio over time.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. And and this sort of breaches a little bit of this is education, but a little bit to people’s like, we’ve got a bit of an overlap with the baby or section as well.

Neil Rogan 

Oh, very much so because you know, from a behavioral perspective, cash is always equal to security, we go back to the, the GFC. In the late 2000s, when your banks had had the, the bank guarantee was introduced by the Rudd government at the time, which gave people a degree of certainty. So in many cases, from a behavioral perspective, cash equals certainty for for many consumers, because it’s been ingrained in their mind over over over decades.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. So it’s easy for us to do this to disk cache. But you know, people still like it. But I think I think you hit the nail on the head in the report, we talked about it being a tool,

Neil Rogan 

Yes, very much. So a tool and a means to an end, in some cases where it can be used for a level of certainty for planning purposes. But then looking at how how a diversified portfolio can meet both the liquidity needs as well as a return objective.

Fraser Jack 

Yep, fantastic. No, well, so that’s, that’s pretty much cash, the percentage on cash was point six of a percent. So that takes us up to sort of 3.7 as the as the as the number we’re up to. Let’s get into the next section, which is a is a funny one, it comes up with the the exact number of priceless

Neil Rogan 

Yep, that’s all gonna say this. Well, you know, what, what, what I would say to this is that you, you really can’t put a value on peace of mind. And, and therefore, you know, what value do do you put on something like that, where, from a, from a consumer perspective, how you can educate a client, in their financial literacy, so that they have more confidence in, in many of the things that they’re doing is really the first step in, in sharing that expertise. The second part is around how you engage with that client. And, you know, research suggests that, you know, through engagement and tracking to goals, and, and having milestones along along the way, actually leads to a higher level of engagement, but also a higher level of education with your client. So it’s a two fold piece. And then, yeah, again, the financial advisors expertise in, in being able to structure things appropriately agk the client, and then engage with the client, you know, and there’s regulations around that now anyway, so that those conversations occur, actually making that more efficient for a client where they’re not having to, you know, research these things, they know when they can buy things they know when they can sell things, or know when they can go on holidays. And here, we’re saying that, you know, based on the on a client, yeah, they’re saving a financial advisor is saving at least 10 hours of a client’s time. And then, so making them more efficient, and then really helping, helping. The next time I talk about here, it’s really enrichment and how, how the report in the report, yeah, those who, who get advice, actually feel more enriched. And this is this peace of mind we talk about and the whole sleep at night test.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So that’s sort of a if you just, if I was to summarize the four different sections, they were doing education, engagement, efficiency and enrichment. I sort of also think of it as a like the emotional impact and be like, as in before the client received the advice they were feeling, you know, x y Zed, and we’ve taken that to a new feeling or trends transformed into a feeling of confidence or a feeling of understanding or security or, as you said, Peace of mind, in their transformation process. And just I’m super interested in this space, because I love the idea of trying to quantify those from, you know, from a perspective of, you know, because we like to try and put numbers around everything. And just being able to say, if we started that, you know, before you came in if you were nervous or upset or worried, where are you know, on a scale of one to 10? Where are you on that scale? And then maybe after the advice to be able to quantify on a scale of one to 10? how, you know, nervous I, you know,

Neil Rogan 

yeah, I think that’s a good point. You see, many clients, I, I think you know, who, and certainly I probably fit into this category that after I’ve had a conversation with, with a with an advisor, I think, well, I feel so much better. I’m on track, I’m doing the right things. I’ve been saved for myself, again, in terms of making a silly mistake. And I can, yeah, my wife’s happier. I know, the kids are gonna be okay. I know, my family’s protected. And I know that if anything happens to me that, that, that they’ll be okay. And I think, yeah, I can’t. Personally, I can’t put a percentage on that. And I don’t think many people could actually put a percentage on that.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s right. And one of the interesting things, I found the report that there was a little bit of a conversation around, you know, amount of time, you know, you know, saving time saving for a client. And so I told around the idea, you know, by advisors, doing some of the standard sort of saves around 10 hours of work 10 hours of climb time from a client.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, I mean, that’s, I would say that that’s at a minimum, Fraser that that 10 out was because you don’t know how much time people would spend actually worrying. So. So we haven’t included in the report, the amount of time your clients would spend pacing around their house, looking at user reports, thinking about things, you know, it’s strange times how often people think when they exercising in the shower or cleaning their teeth and those kinds of things. You know, the time spent worrying. This is more the we’ve quantified the admin time that sits around this, but there’s, there’s time that would be in your subconscious that you probably haven’t calculated here.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. And I did I do remember, I think we’ve been called data for that some stuff. At one point that talked about how often people worry, it might have been like a do worry, once a week, once or once a month, once a day, type thing. So that’s, that’s another interesting set of set of facts, but probably something that advisors can implement in a conversation or in their fact fine, you know, how much time you spend worrying about this, isn’t it? And then to be able to go back and ask that same question after the advice, and then to be able to come up with some sort of a, you know, a number that says, you know, we’ve been able to save you this much time worrying as part of the value of the advice we provide.

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, exactly. Because we were doing the wiring for you, you don’t need to worry

Fraser Jack 

fantastic. Now we might move on I can talk about the the the bed section of the for a long or the experience or the you know, the the expertise section for a long period of time. Let’s move on to tax. The tax, we’ve got a real number, we’ve got doubling back to 1.5%. savings and tax.

Neil Rogan 

Yep, that’s right. So the real number here is really around an aggregate across a range of clients that sits around the the implications of the marginal tax rate, particularly in the superannuation environment, which, you know, is a is a rate of 15% on on the contributions, then we’ve got around how the portfolios managed or the access to different types of portfolios, and then how those how those portfolios are managed, and also the components of those portfolios. And then finally, it’s, it’s, as I said earlier, it’s actually what are the what are the other benefits that clients can get access to that in many cases they they don’t know exist. And so for some people there as we know in the anyone who’s done any kind of pre retirement or retirement planning, getting the access to the PBS is like, like winning Willy Wonka’s golden ticket in and it’s a, it becomes bragging rights at the bowling of a golf club, that they’ve been able to get access to something like that from a client perspective. And in many cases that could be worth more than one and a half percent, to those that couple that client over over the remainder of their life. So so it’s really a range of That’s things that range all the way from where the portfolio sits the kind of assets that are in it, the kind of structure that it’s in all the way through to the benefits that that a client can receive.

Fraser Jack 

I love the analogy winning Willy Wonka’s golden ticket. It’s kind of like a national pastime, isn’t it? trying to save money on tax for people that live here in Australia?

Neil Rogan 

Yeah, very much. So. And I think that was a line that Kerry Packer had one day about, about paying tax.

Fraser Jack 

There certainly was it was it was along the lines of if you’d like to better at spending it, then we wouldn’t mind paying as much. Yes, yes. This don’t get into that topic. Sure. I’m sure if we, we don’t manage our clients money the same way as the IRS happens on budget night. So let’s, let’s get so there’s plenty of text. As you see, I’ve said that the main areas around that structural, you know, structural, technical side, and then there was a great area of awareness and bringing, you know, what is possible that people don’t actually know about yet very much, so. Fantastic. And, and of course, even though, you know, we’re not doing a lot of tax advice, where it’s certainly included in most plans. And

Neil Rogan 

yeah, certainly the awareness. I mean, that’s right. People can go to clients can go to their accountant or, or the pro period advisor for tax advice, but it’s really the awareness of what’s available. And from a from a allowances perspective, but then when you look at the various structures, it’s around understanding what’s sitting in each portfolios to maximize those opportunities. Yep.

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Nervous reports. Fantastic. How can people get a copy of it? What’s the best way for them to reach out?

Neil Rogan 

Yep, they can download it from the Russell website, which is just really Russell investments.com.au. Or they can contact the local Russell BDM, who’d be more than happy to send it to them. There’s also a client version of the report and a whole range of support materials available. And as I said, phrase that this is something that at Russell were incredibly proud of, in terms of supporting the broader advice community here in Australia.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fantastic. Now, I want to talk about that, that client version, because this is obviously, you know, it’s great for financial advisors to know this number. But you know, the best thing in the world is that clients know about it, and consumers know about it. From a marketing point of view, you and I both done work in marketing, how do we get this message out to the broader community of anodised clients as well?

Neil Rogan 

I think there’s a lot everyone can do in that space. Yeah, we’re certainly doing a lot in that space, through through the publicity of this report. But, you know, advisors asking for referrals from their clients, having the conversation to say, well, you can see how I’ve helped you, how have articulated my value to you, do you think there’s anyone else that you know, of who I may be able to assist in this way? And, and then there’s the whole media piece that around, you know, more, getting more Australians to get more advice in a more efficient way. And that, that’s everything from, from us working as an industry collectively to dispel some of the myths that are out there. Looking at how regulation works, and then more broadly, how we can help advisors become more efficient to deliver more advice in a more cost effective way to more people.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I like the idea of I’m gathering the army together of advisors or mentioning, mentioning that 5.2% figure and saying, you know, you know, over your portfolio, very long term 5.2% better off, it’s gonna be a lot of money at the end retirement time.

Neil Rogan 

Without a doubt. Fantastic. Danielle,

Fraser Jack 

thank you so much for catching up today and coming on the podcast and talking about the report. really look forward to seeing this over the next few years and as it grows and changes and evolves and becoming part of something that planners in advisors throughout the country can access whenever they need it.

Neil Rogan 

Great. Thanks, Fraser. Really appreciate being on today.