#251 Gordon Jenkins – Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

client, people, coach, network, business, gordon, executive coach, testimonial, talk, events, jenkins, financial advisor, appreciation, important, day, find, conversation, life, price, advisors

SPEAKERS

Emily Blanch, Gordon Jenkins, Capital Group, Fraser Jack

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack and today I’m joined by executive coach and accountability partner, Gordon Jenkins. Welcome. Welcome, Fraser, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. Now, tell us a little bit about yourself and your business, which has got one of the best business names I’ve ever heard?

Gordon Jenkins 

Well, I would say there’s only three Gordon Jenkins in the world once once a famous composer is dead, and the other one is in jail for money laundering and the third one to meet. So I thought we need to know. So look, I’m very simply I’m a executive coach, mentor, whatever you want to call me at the end of the day, I support people to break through that plateau and make a real difference to both their professional and personal journey in a quite a unconventional but very practical way. Yep.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Yeah. Speaking of unconventional, we’ll we’ll explore this in a second. Because it’s certainly something that you probably use that word a little bit. Tell me about the business name. I am Gordon Jenkins.

Gordon Jenkins 

So I have had several different names go from I started off with the visible guy, no, the invisible guy, then the became the visible guy. And I tried to be too clever. To be honest, I was always trying to be when you look at a brand you want to be you know you want to make an impact and how it goes and I was always trying to be too clever, too clever and was actually through a client of mine. So I think so when you’ve had before Nicola Beswick on the call before Nicole introduced me to her personal branding team, a lady called Colette worden. And I sat down with Colette and I just started talking about what I do and who I am not just within the executive coach, but in life and wanted Gordon Jenkins, but couldn’t get God in Jenkins, because of the composer. So stuck with I am Gordon Jenkins, and is a conversation piece called people when you fill out forms you go, you name Gordon Jenkins, and on your name badge, it says I’m Gordon Jenkins and people go No, that’s I know, that’s who you ask. No, no, that’s my you know. So it’s out there. And it’s part of my brand. And it’s become a it’s a quite a powerful name in terms of what it actually stands for. And I, for the first time in probably 20 odd years and 51 years old, I would say probably 40 years. I’m actually proud to say tell people I am Gordon Jenkins is just got a nice ring tone to it. And use all the time.

Fraser Jack 

fantastic year. So it’s very interesting and you write you know, on an aged, it does it works really well in an age when you’re networking, which we’ll get to it, which we’ll get to in this conversation. But before we do, I want to, I want you to go back in time when let’s go back and talk about your journey. Because it’s a it’s a really interesting story, obviously from school through to your career.

Gordon Jenkins 

Sure. We’ll try to cut this down from being a

Fraser Jack 

let’s be brief the

Gordon Jenkins 

five day. So what I want to say is that this is my story. And we often scared of telling our stories, but we have to understand that this is my show. And I’m not saying it’s better or worse than anyone else. But I want to explain that enjoying the story. There’s been some inflection points, which now I understand those inflection points and it’s who I created today. So as a kid a school, I was bullied daily. I was bullied three times a day at school. And I was also told I was dumb, stupid. I had trouble learning about difficulty in terms of speaking I’ve got a funny accent apparently, but definitely reading and writing. What I was a mathematical genius. I was a bit like goodwill hunting type genius in mathematics. But it wasn’t till I finished my university degree that I got diagnosed with dyslexia. So one understand and I’ve only just really understood this, let’s say it was but I refuse to let my disability if I mean because I was never the smartest kid on the block. When I was applying for a job this 15,000 students or graduates go for a job in this garden. And I don’t have straight A’s so I always had to do Friendship myself quite quickly in a way of not applying for a job that normal people would do. I managed to complete a degree of applied science. I spent 25 years in the corporate world I crime I climbed the corporate ladder became a C suite executive of a large global financial firms CEO of a large financial services for responsible for multimillion dollar budget. budgets, large international teams are transformed organization’s team culture, grow your network boost, the bottom line, sounds really fantastic. But I really wasn’t happy. I really wasn’t happy. And then on the 18th of December 2006. And it’s funny how these dates stand in your mind I can actually tell you is 2am in the morning, they can assimilate my career, my corporate career, my gravy train was cut short. Wendy, my wife went in for a double lung transplant. And we were told that she had less than two years to live. And an overnight I went from a global CEO, to a full time carer. And mentally that was very difficult because everyone suddenly went how’s Wendy? How’s Wendy? How’s Wendy? But no one actually asked house Gordon, who was always house when and even today even through lockdown. And I’ve just come out of quarantine. No one’s actually asked me how I’m doing. Everyone said how’s where do we go? Yeah, I’m doing fine. Thanks for asking. So the whole experience has made me realize that it’s, it’s really important to make every day count. No matter how successful, influential, wealthy you are. If life isn’t filled, what you’re doing and what you love, and surrounded by the people you love, it really doesn’t make any difference. It makes no difference whatsoever. So we don’t have any material things in our life at all. So my life experiences good and bad. And I’ve influenced unconventional strategies. I’ve adopted this to fuel my own growth and that of my clients, the network and the echoes. I talk about ecosystem, the people around me, the adversity I faced his has probably made me the champion of the underdog. I’m not Olympic champion, I never will be Olympic champion. I’m the type of person that when you see these Olympic champions on stage, I’m making a burger and fries and going I’m not going to get up at four o’clock in the morning. But what I have done is realize that you we’ve got a strong advocate for celebrating our diversity and our individuality. And that’s, that’s what I am today. And, yeah, we talked about it off screen before. I just do what my mom and dad have always taught me to do. God bless her souls are here today, it’d be me have respect for each other, go out and do your best. And as long as you can do your best, every single day, the rest of it will take care of it.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. Now, thank you, thank you for sharing that. I know that that’s a you know, a great journey and a great story. And there’s obviously some fairly heavy deep emotional parts to it. Which which really do shaped the human you are and shaped the way that the and the reasoning why you coach the way you coach and you you you work with the people that you work with. I love the the the you know, the Olympic Olympian conversation, you might not be the Ariana titmus winning the gold medal, but you’re the coach in this day and during the day. So you do and everything we’re going to talk about today all the different topics that I’ve got noted down that I want to discuss with you. kind of shaped by that story, which I think was which was why I think it was good to talk about that. And in certainly that motto of making every single day count, and that comes back to that accountability. Do want to hear my dyslexic, my quick quickly my dyslexic joke. When life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic. Sorry, I mean, lemons. Yeah. Let’s talk. Let’s talk about the idea of coach and being coach because you say you’re an executive coach, but you also you also happy to be coached.

Gordon Jenkins 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was, I was good at certain sports and unfortunate, it’s cool. I was good at sports. I didn’t make a lot of money, like badminton. I was never the greatest soccer player. But I kept in the school badminton team way, way before my time in terms of age, or ability. And that’s really important, a great leader, and a great coach is not the best at what they do. They just know how to get the best out of other people. And that’s, that’s different. So I know what I’m good at. I’m good at business, and personal growth and networking. My wife and my accountant will tell me I’m not very good at operation. That’s why I love doing podcasts because I’ll have to do speak. And so whenever does all the work. Okay, so yeah, so you know what I think about so take away the school, when I came and I worked at UBS and there was a role came what’s ahead of the products team. It’s a roller one is rolling. I think I could go. But there’s important facts on that I needed the operations people on my side and I needed the advisors on my side. So I knew I wasn’t gonna apply for the job. So my interview was by going out and gathering lunches with the CEO and the chairman. Then what actually went in went and asked this the chief operating officer of the business, if they would mentor me, because this is a role, I think I can add real value to that I went and something to talk about my chicken list to the worst advisor in the room. So there’s 300 advisors the worst. And when I say the worst, not the worst person, give me an advice. But the one is probably got the worst attitude.

Fraser Jack 

And then so how do you find that worst advice? Did you ask them all to line up in a row and put themselves in,

Gordon Jenkins 

they stand out. And then went to him and asked him if he will support me. And that was probably my first time i’ve having a unpaid coach mentor, and I don’t differentiate between what a coach and a mentor doesn’t know, might upset a few people. And then I started building an ecosystem. I think, when Wendy went sick, what I realized is that I need my own support network. So I talked about flying a Moka system about being on the plane in the airport system. But you know, you can’t fly a plane, let us go fuel unless it’s got the baggage and lets the control tower says it’s okay to fly. So I think in life that you we’ve got to surround ourselves with that ecosystem around us and Americans are really good at this. So I’ve got a personal branding coach, I’ve got a, I’m happy to say I’ve got a psychologist who’s an amazing, there’s actually someone that my wife use for PTSD, then we went together, and now I use them more often than my wife does. So absolutely brilliant call, I’ve got a dietitian, as we’re talking about who will find out about making bacon Well, I had this morning, who hates me highly accountable. So I’ve got those. I’ve got branding coach, and I’ve got personal coach. Now I’ve got another new number. And then I’ve got another series of coaches, who are actually my clients who keep me accountable to what I say that I’m gonna do, I’m telling them to do tonight, I can’t tell them to do or should they to do something, if I’m not prepared to do it myself. So the whole thing about coaching, I would say that anyone in life and you know, those, for me, my business, me, my love, where I am at the moment, those people I don’t differentiate between work and life, I just live without people around me, they, I am who I am today, partly because of those people in my life. Yep. I there’s a phrase that, you know, when you climb the ladder, never forget those who built the ladder that you’re now on top of. And that’s really important to them.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. And the reason I wanted to make this film, the top, I believe, typical conversation fairly early on, was, in my view, what you’re doing with your clients is is very similar to what financial advisors are doing with their clients. And you know, and that their concept of having a support network or a team around you of people that can help you and guide you and make sure that you’re, you know, the the guard rails and bouncing off them when you start to get go outside the the you know, the outside the rails. But then also that conversation around your clients are also your coach is really important. I think that’s, that’s something that advisors can try on, or, you know, put that hat on when it comes to, you know, how they’re, you know, their clients being their coach as well.

Gordon Jenkins 

Absolutely. You know, when I started up in financial services shows how long ago it was KYC know your client, it just come out in the AML. And in Australia was very much approach Oh, you know, this is this is compliance. This is compliance. And thankfully it was at UBS. But if you take that approach of actually having a conversation with the client, or other than just doing financial investments, and actually taking knowledge and what’s happening to those clients, you know, there’s numerous occasions where I was getting phone calls from clients, because they were about to make a business transaction, or they were about to get separated from their partner, and they wanted to know, what would happen to the investments, how that would work, we want to let you know, when do we know? Or, you know, my, my mother’s dying, just let you know that, you know, we might be due this day, and I’m going okay, there’s $60 million coming out of the account here. Have we got the next succession plan already in place? Do we know everyone? So their whole KYC is not Yes, it’s there from a compliance perspective. But the whole purpose of it is so you know, your clients, you know, their clients, you know what they’re living because you want to be that financial, that trusted advisor where you are, oh, my God, I won’t get out of bed without being in a garden. Or I’m not going to buy the boat without asking Cortlandt. I’m not going to buy the house without asking. Now, it’s not necessarily the Gordon, the financial advisor is the person who will help me. But I trust Gordon that Gordon will know who to introduce me to, that will be the best for me. So I never want the best accountant. I want the best accountant who can work with work with and understand what I want. So yeah, so that’s, you know, that’s that the echo system that’s really important from an from an advisors perspective.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, yeah. Like day by day, you just sort of describe that their idea of leaning into what what was known as implied thing, leaning into the reason behind that to actually say, Well, how can we turn this into something that actually works well for the relationship? there one of the things I wanted to as we move through my list of things I wanted to talk to you about, one of the things that you talk about, a lot is the idea of around time, you know Like time is a big, big aspect. And obviously, when you’re an accountability coach, you’re looking at both, you know, activities, focus mindset, but also around time and diaries and how people are spending their time. How do you work with clients around this.

Gordon Jenkins 

So time only moves forward. Okay. And whilst we lost it, we never get it back. So let’s move on. There are only 24 days, 24 hours in the day, so we fixed the numbers. So I’m unconventional. So I don’t do to do lists. I do not to do lists. Okay, and I have my own template and framework for not to do list. And you can google not to do lists. But basically, the way not to do list is you work out, you actually spend some time to what you’re doing. So the amount of time you get off, we go for coffee, the amount of time to spend on emails about time to spend on calls. And you actually work out all these things, you’ve got your set, you categorize them up into three different categories, when you go through the process, and you can do in a day, but it works best over two weeks. But you’ll get used that system habits forming. You will, and I would guarantee that anyone who wants to go through this roommate, your save at least one hour a day, on average, when I do this program, and I run through this with people, if they get into the habit, and they actually do the habit, they save around about 250,000 US dollars or 250,000, Aussie dollars, whatever you want to put it to a year in time in lost time. So the really important thing is, so people say yep, I’ve got to do lists, I’ve got things to do. So there’s nothing more disappointing that when you’re great, draw a list of 30 things you do, and you go home, you still got lists of 20 things you come in the next day, you add another 15 things, you only do 10 things, there’s nothing more disappointing than that. If you want to think about the positivity, the emotion, the positive mindset, you put three things on your piece of paper that you want to do, and you do nothing else. until those three things are done. Nothing else. Once you screw up them off, you actually draw a line through it. And that’s the positivity, the emotion you get when you actually draw line stays completed. Once those three things are done, if it’s past 12 o’clock, you add two things. Once those two things have done, gone, if it’s past three o’clock, you add one thing, right, and you only add one at a time, you don’t do anything else on to that one thing is done. So it’s just different mindset to me, when I did this in a financial services firm. And we talked about how the time was wasted, we worked out where time was being wasted everything else. We calculated around about a $3 million in time wasted in the group. And we come when I said what, okay, what opportunities Have you missed out that you haven’t got, it worked out about $8 million in revenue that was not exercised or worked on, because we’re working on time, because we had this time left. So it’s really important that we have some time to go, it’s just easier for me to do then go back and ask someone else to do or doing different things. You know, when nothing good financial services firms or good professional services for we ask for client information, you don’t start the task once you’ve got all the client information, but it comes back to how you communicate that with the client. So when you’ve got all the client information, then you set it, then you set the target or when you’re going to deliver and this comes back to accountability. If I say to you phrase, I’m going to deliver a product for you on the 16th of October. That is the last day that you expect it. I’m saying the 16th of October, I’m always going to deliver on the first, right why cuz I’ve, I’ve exceeded your expectations. But because I can miss out on the 16th. And I’m only starting the work when I’ve got all the pieces of paper on me. Right. That’s how that’s how I get efficiencies. That’s how I’m always differentiate myself in a way as well. So stop doing a to do list and start doing not to do

Fraser Jack 

list. I love that the unconventional wisdom in that. But that’s incredible. Because you’re absolutely right. You know, there’s often things that pop up. And I think, you know, like, we know these things. We know we’re not supposed to be checking email all the time only at certain times of the day. But yet, habits are harder to break. And I think I think that the idea of having a do not do or not to do list really brings that accountability rings that mind bonus of those of those habits as they kick in.

Gordon Jenkins 

We are we are As humans, we are our worst enemy. For some reason someone’s read a book or so on some psychologists or some coaching expert, which is probably me saying that has told us that we got to respond really quickly that delivering a great service is responding quickly to an email. And quickly we’ve said is we’ve got to drop everything now. Well, you know, having gone through what I’ve gone through, you know less you died less it’s actually life or death. If you’ve got a really good relationship, I’m pretty sure it can take half an hour, an hour, an hour. Just Just think about that. If you’re in a client meeting, you wouldn’t stop that client meeting to respond to a client’s email. So it can wait 45 minutes to an hour.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. And just so just on this because you mentioned the diary is a really interesting part. Go back and look at look back in your diary for for a couple of weeks, two or three weeks, even a month and look at all those different particular tasks that you did. Is that something you do as part of this, the course when you’re not today, unless

Gordon Jenkins 

people have diaries, people have a number of different whatever, whatever system you use, so I use, I just use Google Mail my Google Calendar, cuz that’s where that’s where my life is. I go back to that and look at what happens on there. So even when I’m organizing me, so I have my clients, and a certain couple of days, I don’t have anything on a Friday. I’m from the old school of long lunches, so never had anything on a Friday. But I also got my own business. So when I started my own business, I determined that, hey, you don’t want to hear from me on a Monday morning. You don’t want to if I’m in a Friday afternoon, so that’s my days to work on my on my business, or just take time out. So yeah, we’re looking at people’s calendars. And we’re looking at No, and there’s an accountability and I’m poking the bear. I’m going but why are you doing it? Do you have to do it? Why is it been in? What’s the purpose of it? Well, what happens if you don’t do it? So often, I talk about you know, things like, you know, when people say we do a weekly, or weekly newsletter, and I go, great, what’s your hit rate? And they go on, like, 6%? And I go, brilliant. And what’s your bounce rate? About 96%? Or 95%? I go, I think we got a problem here. We just stopped doing your weekly, your weekly newsletter, and see if anyone says that who says, Hey, we haven’t seen your weekly newsletter, right? If no one actually responses that we haven’t seen it or we missed it. No actually says that, then you’re actually not adding value any value then work out. Okay. Well, that what we’re going to do with that time, how else can we do that time? So it’s always so Stephanie. If everyone says, oh, Crikey, we’ll miss your weekly newsletter. where, you know, it’s got great demand. So that helps you build on it. So yes, we look at colors. We’re looking at people using their time. And it’s poking the bear. You know, I suppose from accountability, perspective, life side, I, I poke away, I’m I’m a no BS guy. I’m not looking for the wallflower. I actually want to know what is what’s the purpose? Why are you doing? I’m not after the, I’m not after the, the activities. I’m after the outcome. Which this is,

Fraser Jack 

this is a really interesting part. Because then the No, the no BS guy, I think we sort of joked about this before, the idea that you’ve heard all the corporate speak, you know, you know, all that sort of stuff, right? But the you’re not looking for that you’re looking at the messaging underneath and the and the authentic human being underneath it.

Gordon Jenkins 

That’s, that’s, that’s what it is to me. So actions speak louder. The words, I’m after the, I’m always about the outcomes. It’s a bit like you know, when people go networking, you know, people say, Oh, you got to go to networking event, you got to pick a business cards are great people 20 business cards. I’m not interested in that. What I want to know is, did you pick up the business cards from the people that you knew were going to be at the event? And what’s your next action? And people go well, I didn’t know who was at the event. And now what you didn’t do is you didn’t find out who was going to be the event before you turned up to ensure that your marketing your was really targeted. And nor did you say to those people, hey, I’m going to be this event would be really great. If I could catch up for a drink with you. Now that’s a real outcome. That’s that’s different to go into a network event. It’s standing in the corner and saying I just met a lot of other financial planners. Well, yeah, great. Well, financial planning met financial planner, you got your six CPD hours in. That’s it.

Fraser Jack 

Let’s get stuck into this cuz I know you do a lot more stuff on networking. Let’s go into networking. The you’re absolutely right. You know, we get to we get to networking events. Look, I have to say sometimes when you advisors do get together, though, they actually they start talking about different things. If you do get into that conversation that above the surface, how you’re going great, you’re busy, I’m busy. We’re all busy, blah, blah, blah, then you get under the line, how are you doing this? And you can actually start looking at some great problem solving things if you’ve got problems, if that’s what the event is about. So talk to me about what you and how you teach around networking

Gordon Jenkins 

short. So that’s really important. We talked about networking. Often, you know, I deal with a couple of financial services firms that look after extremely high net worth clients. And they often get Oh, can you look after my friend, and that friend doesn’t fit your client base. But the fit the base, the fit the demographics of another financial planning firm. So having those relationships is really important that comes back to yours don’t have to take on the client, because it’s a friend. It’s what you actually take. So, networking, so let me say this, and not everyone likes to go into network events. If you don’t like go into network events, that’s perfectly okay. Don’t go, which is really weird. For me being in network is I don’t go to networking events. So if you’re not going to go to network event, what else are you going to do because to do nothing, is not the right thing. Some of the best networkers I know only go to network events today, because they get paid to turn to go to network events. So if you take someone like Gary Vee, paste, networking, pay $150,000 or turn up to a networking event. It doesn’t really go into network events. So if you’re going to go to a networking event, make sure like you said if you’re going to go to one that’s where there’s other financial planners, you’re not going to build business. You’re going to learn educate, develop. All right, find. Find your own. Suppose your coach and your networking group where you can learn off each other, I think, you know, within the industry, the majority of us do share that information don’t find ourselves competitive. And we actually learn a lot from each other. So if you’re going to go to an if you’re going to go to a network events, if you’re going to get to medicos, or traders or something like that, just turn up as a financial planner or financial advisor, you’re going to stick out like a sore thumb, that the hair for business. So how else are you going to penetrate that marketplace? So one of my big target markets, for me personally is in legal profession, I do a lot in the legal profession. About four years ago, I joined an association called Women in insolvency recovery. They have the best AFL Grand Final, free lunch evening. So for me it was I joined it because I just wanted to do something for me because I’m my own business. I ended up joining the committee and ended up joining the network. He committed surprising churn the networking committee, and he was talking offline that, you know, I actually won an award yesterday for mail contributor change. But my approach to that association has always to give never to receive maintain is always to give more to share more to learn stand to learn more to actually be active in that networking group. So that’s one way I do it. If you’re going to go to a network group where your target market is there, hopefully you can you know, people beforehand, so you can go along, so you don’t ever want to stand in the corner. But if you don’t like go to network events Don’t go. So these are the things you know, most of you know the be a lot of your listeners that will have two kids at school, are you actively involved in your school committees? Why? Because you’re probably at the age, same age group as other kids parents. And if you had a private school, you probably can afford the private school fees. So you probably got the same wealth. Okay, so get actively involved in why because when two kids play with to run and one kid plays with another kid, what happens the parents start talking to each other not about being an accountant or financial play, but the introduce themselves to make sure that family that the child’s play with is from a good family. So you start talking about something about who you are, not what you are. So that’s to join committees, join a charity, join a committee, get involved in podcast, look at what your differentiation is, you can just do LinkedIn, I’ve got a LinkedIn marketing strategy. Okay, I actually don’t talk to anyone else. So one engages through my LinkedIn messaging. So networking can be a variety different things. It doesn’t matter whether you’re an extrovert or an introvert, it’s about doing things on a very consistent basis. So when we talk about that not to do lists my timetable, I’ve got a calendar, where I’ve got eight things this week I’m doing regarding networking. And only one of them is a lunch. So I’m doing different things all the time targeting different marketing pieces. So I’ve got a there’s a free book I’ve got called network with purpose. 30 different ways to network, that 30 different ways. There’s probably five or six that anyone can adapt to any one time, they pandemic proof. So it doesn’t matter that we’re in a pandemic, or it doesn’t matter. I mean, lockdown, in fact, some of them actually work better that we know, lockdown. So people can get that off my website for free. It’s a free book is 20 pages, and they look at it and they go, Well, that’s bloody obvious. I went. Yeah, it’s bloody obvious. But it’s so bloody obvious. You actually haven’t done it.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Sometimes a lot of stuff obvious. Sometimes a lot of stuff we do that works really well. And then we stopped doing it because we sort of get a bit bored with that now sort of works too well, I need, I need to give myself a new challenge. So the whole

Gordon Jenkins 

the whole thing about networking is you’ve got to be able to differentiate yourself of the price. So I don’t believe in elevator pitches. I do not believe in elevator pitches. The reason I don’t believe in elevator pitches is because I don’t like taking elevators. Is because an elevator pitch is a cell and it gets you there for 30 seconds. But if I’m having a so when someone meets me, you’re expecting me to say to you how you doing or what you do? Well, I never say that. The first question I ask is Who made you smile this week? And the person goes, Well, I’ve got my elevator pitch ready. I said, I don’t really care. But I want to know, who made you smile? The second question asked is, Who did you make smile? I want to know who you are. I’m intrigued about who they are, who they are as a person. So networking can be a variety of different things. It can be whatever you want to be, but it has to suit your, your DNA and who you are and who you are.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I agree. I think it sort of needs to be a bit more a bit more of that longer form. This is who I am, versus um, you know, just the Quick, quick elevator pitch. That’s great and that that ebook is a great resource and if somebody wants to grab that they should go to your website, Gordon Jenkins and in download that. I have a saying about networking events. When I go to sometimes, sometimes I can be extroverted, sometimes I can be introverted. I’m kind of like sitting on the fence sometimes swing between the two but I like the idea that I’m going here. You know, I’m here to stand out not to fit in is one of one of

Gordon Jenkins 

my things. And that’s why you’ve got to, you’ve got to know what your story is. So I go in there and people say to me, you know, it says Gordon Jenkins, it might say, executive coach. So what you coach, are you an executive coach? Well, thank you for the bloody obvious. And they said, Well, what do you do? I said, Well, you’ve got a choice. I can tell you about why I’m an executive coach, I can tell you why aware, I choose. So I always wear or choose the blue shoes, but the very odd shoes, or I can tell you why I carry yellow rubber duck in my pocket. And I don’t go anywhere without this yellow rubber duck. No one ever ever asked me about an executive coach. But each story each whatever they ask me reverts back to who I am. And the idea at the end of it, is this so intrigued about who I am, they’re actually compelled to actually find out more about me and go about me do it. Now, sometimes if I bring someone with me to an event, and they say, Well, tell me what you do. I said, Well look, rather than me tell you what to do. Let me introduce Nicola Fraser to rephrase. Why don’t you explain what I do? Yep. And that’s a great segue for someone else to validate who I am. Because they’re going to tell you about their their own experience. I’m not using my elevator pitch.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. And they use it. And they usually

Gordon Jenkins 

do without any bs as well.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, you get the testimonial, then we’ll go into this Montesinos in a moment. But you’re definitely here to stand out not to fit in type of person. And I love that I love the concept that you mentioned earlier, where you go to give a you have that focus on not hitting, you go to give. And then you’ll get to me back later. That comes a bit later.

Gordon Jenkins 

So I used to think about cash rich passion, Paul, I say today and passion rich, cash poor. Not that I’m pouring cash, but I follow the passion of people, and the rest will take care of itself. If I’m following the cash, my mindset is completely different. So follow the passion of people. And the rest will naturally just occur.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. I think I think if you say cash rich passion, poor, and then you say passion, rich, you don’t go back to cash Poor you. It just means cash stays rich. Yeah. Let’s Let’s be talked about, you mentioned a little bit around the ideas of price and fees in the last in the last conversation there. Talk to us about how you work with advisors in the space.

Gordon Jenkins 

So like an advisor, like anyone in the services, if someone asked me, How much do I charge? I’ll go, I understand why you may ask that. But I don’t think we’re actually fit. She don’t think we’re fit. So straightaway. So when asked me about how much do I charge, good chance that they’re at their price something. And I’m not interested in price centers. I don’t know whether I’m cheap or expensive. I don’t really care whether I’m cheap or expensive. What I do know is what I deliver, or what I will say guarantee Liberty commerce, because some things I can guarantee but what I will deliver, and what you can hold me accountable to so someone says to me, how much do you charge? I go back, I said, I understand why you might want to ask that question. But that’s the wrong point. What? You know, I don’t think you’re the right client. For me. Now, they often say but I think I am. So let’s get price. I have a piece sounds like got double standards here. I always negotiate in price. If I’m the buyer moved into the big business Service offices are not paying their back, right. I know MLB right now there’s a deal to be made or commercial property, no matter what is advertised. And so if you are marketing yourself being out there in a memorable and intriguing way, people never asked you about price. So what is really important is that there’s a change happening in the last 18 months regarding how consumer packaged human behavior. But 95% 94% I think McKinsey did a report earlier this year of consumer behavior is decided on before they even speak to you. It’s done on the web. And your language on the web will determine whether someone is so one sees language on the web, and then comes on digital and then connects with you. They’re not really after price. We think the one price and we think have to be price. I have never worked for a price conscious business now worked for accountants, and I’ve been a CEO of an accounting professional services firm that had account it was in six minutes laws, and trying to get them to think about that’s a cost not a value add is a different metric. So don’t get first of all, get the mindset of not have a conversation about cost. If your cost if your service fee is totally is only related on the fact that you’re going to provide investment advice, you’ve got very little bargaining power. But then just think about what value add you can add on top of that. You can bring the client into seminars, if it’s if you’re dealing with business clients, you can bring him into a business that work in internal business that work in lunches. You can take him to events. It’s about how you if you’ve got a couple or household with Rodney, Sony, the one of the partners coming through how do you engage the other partner as well. So you’ve got to think about your activities and what you’re doing on a constant The basis other than other than price, if it’s if you’re trading, and I would always go to the, to the point now in Australia that I should don’t think stop picking my trading is evaluate because anyone can do now because there’s so much research that you can get out there right now. So what is the value that you’re going to provide? Other than price when discretionary portfolios first came out, we were the firm I was with UBS, I think we did it at NAB. And then look upon as we were, it was 1015 20% more than a normal portfolio. But it was the privilege of having your portfolio manage your individual portfolio managed by a portfolio manager that you prepare to pay an expertise that was behind that paper. But also you got access to international IPOs. Not that way. But once at this time, you’re getting introduced to international private equity things like you know, when LinkedIn came out, and before Google came and stuff like that, so you’ve got a different price offering. So you’re going to think about what you get, I don’t think taking clients out for big lunches is the way to win clients over now. And otherwise, no one wants, no, I,

Fraser Jack 

I love the love the concept that you mentioned, just being around the idea that people, people will sort of buy you before they even meet you, because they’ve read your website, have they’ve seen your videos, or whatever it might be I love the concept of podcasts. I think that, you know, advisors should add their own podcast, this is a plug for me, you know, promoting that. But that the idea around that is that you know that people get to get their message out there. They’re the idea before you buy them. But also some of the things that you mentioned the costs. And I really like that word costs that you use, they’re around what you know, the cost to work with you that professional cost that you charge. I think that’s that’s obscene to research around how that much better word to use them fees. In financial advice scenario, instead of charging your client fees, just explain to your client what the professional costs are. But also the fact that there are people by people like him sort of mentioned there that people buy people in the in, in the rest of it’s just all stealth.

Gordon Jenkins 

So this, this, I’ve spent a lot of time around. I’ve spent a lot of time and unconventional people for stop what psychologists and mindset people who is who think slightly differently, so I never do proposal, I never do proposal, the moment I send you my document, my class is in agreement, because I’ve got there’s nothing else to discuss, we spent all the time discussing. And you know, I, when I can’t gauge your client, we have a 15 minute chat, goes to the 30 minute chat, and then goes to one hour chat, right after that you either know you out, we know how they’re gonna work together or not. So you get a proposal, you get an agreement for me, and it’s titled, as an agreement, the fee is classed as that your investment fee. So the investment that you’re making in this engagement, and I go through the document, I talk about your investment in this program, your investment in this service is x, your expected outcomes from this investment is x y Zed. So very much about ensuring that they’re not they don’t ever want it to be a cost. Now, I could be charging x dot x making them but I could be charging $10,000 a month. And he might say that’s expensive. I said, Well, if you want to make a million dollars a year is $10,000 a month, you know, $120,000, you know, you get 10 times roughly 10 times or two times return, you know what, what what do classes expensive is in the mind of the holder. spending half a million dollars on a car seems expensive to us. If you’re spending half a million dollars on a car that only might be 1% of your wealth tells you it’s not expensive. So what is expensive to us to individually is is based on perception. So but understand the value that you’re creating and articulate the value that you will deliver.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. 100%. And we when we were talking about the networking, you mentioned the the concept of getting somebody else to talk about you rather than it coming from you. Is it sort of is that sort of a something that you can use in this space to?

Gordon Jenkins 

Absolutely, you know, I think when you talk about your service, and you’re offering your service, having clients to talk about their experience and their own experience, you know, if you’re talking about intergenerational wealth, wealth, you want the you want people the testimony of people that have gone at the end of that, that pathway as well as those that started those pathway. You want to know why they picked you out and why they haven’t picked Well, you know, if you’re targeting the 60 plus generation, then you want to know you know those that started with you 55. So those are still with you at 17 longevity, you know, it’s really strange that, you know, if I’ve got $20 million dollars, I don’t want in mind money to be advised by someone where I’m at that top of that tree. I want to be advised by people that deal with $20 million clients on a day in day out basis. I don’t want to be that special, that only one. And that’s if you’ve got $200,000 the same principle applies. So getting people to talk about why they want to be with you is couldn’t I suppose I’m probably going to go against what some of my clients are doing at the moment. So my corporate clients I like Raw unedited stuff, which sometimes if you’ve got a client talking about who you are, and it’s edited to make it look so should make and everything else, it just, you lose, you lose that authenticity, just let it be, it doesn’t matter if they’ve got an M in it or whatever, just let them speak who, who they want to speak. Now, if you are having a testimonial, there’s two things are absolutely critical. One is their name, their full name, to if they’ve got a LinkedIn account to link it to LinkedIn, if it’s not on LinkedIn, or all their organization does none of this, while 57 said x, y, Zed, none of that. So you want to make sure that your testimonials? Absolutely valid.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more the sad we’re so used to seeing them now. And one of the things about the testimonial is, it’s interesting, because if it’s a testimonial that’s on your website, it’s kind of like yeah, of course, you’re gonna put the good ones on there. But we also have the system of a review, like a Google review, right or, or, you know, other type of review, you know, visit a five star, etc, etc. I think it’s, I think that’s a great way to have been able to promote your business to be able to say, you know, Gordon, thanks for being a client of mine. Really appreciate it. You might want to do a testimonial for me, which I’m gonna I’m gonna get into in a bit more in a second. But can you you know, would you would you be able to leave me a Google review, and give them a link in a way to that?

Gordon Jenkins 

So absolutely. So I can talk about one of my worst testimonials is actually one of my best testimonials. Okay, and I’ll explain what happened and what people don’t. And what people don’t often know is when you ask him for testimony, be very clear what you want them to talk about. I don’t want him to say phrases a good bloke. So if Hey, Fraser, we’ve been here would you mind leave in testimony in particular, what I’d be really grateful for? If you could explain, you know, how you how you found Houston, how you found God and Jenkins how you found Joe Bloggs, how you found, you know, whatever the organization is your impression when you first met us what that was, and you know, you’ve been with us now for two years. Keep let us know what you let us know what you think, you know, hasn’t hasn’t met your expectations. Now, and be honest, you know what things haven’t done? Well, yep.

Fraser Jack 

Can I Can I throw a little piece into this too? I love the idea of, you know, like you said, You know how you found us. So it’s exactly what you say there, how you found us the impression to him first met and where we’re at now, is a story. But it’s a journey that takes it’s not just a testimonial, it’s a story. But I love the idea of throwing something in there of how they were feeling. Prior to approaching you all I was nervous about approaching you or I was blood, because the person who’s reading that testimonial can empathize with that testimony. They go I’m actually nervous about reaching out. I don’t know if I need a financial advisor I don’t need if I think about you know, when I first before I went to this firm, I was thinking I don’t need this. It’s not for me, I don’t have enough money. But then when I got there, I blah, blah, blah. And then when I met I was relieved. And then now I completely I’m you know, I’m an advocate, you know that that’s the the journey that you want them to go on, but you want them to touch I think you want to touch on that nerve that is in the mind of the person who might be reading the testimonial. What they’re thinking, yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. perspective, you know, yeah, I’m coming. I’m thinking, if I if I copy that don’t need to do it need to reference to say your head or on the podcast?

Gordon Jenkins 

Yeah. testimonies are really important. So I do on my testimonials on LinkedIn. I, I’ve started now getting Google testimonials. And the reason being because my Google is starting to go up. So I actually I say to people, now I’m looking after two testimonials. Can you leave me one on LinkedIn? But also Google’s becoming a key part of my business growth? Do you mind doing both in the go? Yeah, so that’s, that’s no problem. So so they’re all on there. So I talked about my worst testimonial, which is my best testimonial. So in 2018, my father, my father passed away a couple of months before that a friend said to me, says, Gordon, I’ve never had a coach before, would you coach me? And I said, Yes, but so you understand your friend, but you still going to pay because there’s no free I don’t do any only do freebies, for women, insolvency and my own foundation maturity. So you are going to pay because you have to feel the value. And at the end of the three months, you’ll know then either I am the right coach for you or not the right coach for you. And if I’m not the right coach for you, you’re lucky know what you what type of coach you want. He’s fed up. And then he saw my fee, and he goes is that match rates? I said, No. It’s a full rate because I don’t do match, right? You just pay could you get about? I said, you know, when you get a horse, you know what to pay the full price for a horse you expect to get a three legged horse or four legged horse, your four legged horse, right? Okay. And after about two months, we sat down and it wasn’t working. He said to me, God, it’s not working. I said, No, it’s not working. That’s fair enough. I said, Well, before we go write down on a piece of paper on the left hand side 10 things You now think you want from a coach. And five things you don’t want from a coach, we did it over a cup of coffee. I said, Now circle three things that non negotiable circle. So when you go out to look at different coaches now those are the three things that you’re not going to get six thinking I’m going to move on. He’s gone with another coach with a coaching group, paying five to six times what my monthly rate was remember that he did want to pay my initial rate, that organization has been a tremendous has had a massive impact on the growth of his business, a huge impact more than I would do, because they worked on something completely different to I did. But he says if unless I would have gone through what I went through you, Gordon, the first thing is I would have said no because of their fees. But because the mindset was, what do I want out of that? He said, again, we go and he did exactly the same thing. for them. He went, he committed to a 12 month program. But he said, it’s a three month trial. It’s like a three month probation. If we if it doesn’t work, if we don’t gel on the first three months, I don’t want to leave. Now, no, with financial advisors, you can’t do that. But you can take the same ideology, you can take the ILO and adapt it to the business and the way that you enjoy the way that you choose. And I would say that part of the ideology is, when you talk about what we’re going to do for clients, the first impression of a client, really of a new organization is not the investment. If the onboarding process. And if you can’t get that onboarding process down, Pat, you’re getting making errors and that onboarding process, if people aren’t communicating, if you’re offloading the work into client service teams, and they’re not really communicating an internal communication, not your first impression of the clients gonna go downhill straightaway. And that’s gonna be really hard to recover from.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, it’s definitely a the onboarding processes are half, like you did the whole first impression piece. And it’s, and you can break that into, you know, 6000 different small pieces, or you can, or you can get that done. That’s probably probably a good time to cover all that today. But one of the things I wanted to bring up and have a chat about was the concept around and this is, I guess, it we’ve had a couple conversations around it actually, around the idea of, you know, compliments and appreciation and showing that, as you said, you mentioned the idea of authenticity and bringing this into the into the conversation.

Gordon Jenkins 

So I haven’t read a book on this. I haven’t listened to podcasts, this is the way that I was brought up to play Thank you go back to my sporting coach, you know, after playing badminton, is that the first thing you do in your badminton, when you finish your two rounds, you play with a doubles partner, you go and shake their hand, and then you go over to the captain of the team, and you say thank you, thank you for your team. And then you go over to the team manager, and the team coaches. And there’s usually three or four coaches and you shake everything one of those hands that you say, thank you for being present today. Thank you for being here. And it’s really clear, thank you for being present. And that has stuck with me all the time. Thank you for being invested. So when you when you say to someone, how are you, you pause and you expect to listen back to them and their comments back. So there’s a large accounting group, and they have the word appreciation is one of their values. And one of the ladies I coach is really big about this appreciation, she got an email from someone that she didn’t know within this organization’s 1000s people and she went, Oh, just hit sell my emails. And I’ve got 4000 emails. So they’re an accounting firm. So you can tell they never delete their emails. There’s only one email with a board appreciation in it and it came from you. Now that was massively powerful for her. So what did she do she picked up the phone and had a conversation with this person she’s never ever spoken to. She didn’t actually even remember what she actually said appreciated for so she actually said I don’t actually remember what I did. So being appreciated and saying thank you is is something that you can say thank you and always you can say thank you to as a general email, you can go to people to say thank you. You can pick him out in teams me to say thank you. I appreciate your work. You know, we talked about it before on Google 100 ways to say thank you and 100 ways to say appreciate some of the big crafts, but use them all the time in my jaw. I’ve got thank you cards. I hand write thank you cards. I’ve got congratulation cards, I handwrite congratulation cards, I tend not to send emails. Okay, I’m always looking to differentiate myself. When you take clients on to functions, and the partner staying at home. What do you do for that partner? When you go into the football match and your partners, the partners going, you know, you go for a lunch or a football match or you’re going out to a football match or something like that. Or long lunch you take one of the patterns but the other partner stayed home what you do for that partner? Yeah, you send him a bunch of flowers or some scans or bottle wise Look, I really appreciate both you’ve been clients I know that Jane’s out for lunch with us and Bob staying at home, okay, those little things go millions of miles. What happens is they actually start talking to their friends about this and you get that work done. Test network, it happens when you’re actually not doing network when other people are talking about you without you even knowing. So the same appreciation of Thank you is really, but I’m not a big fan of employee of the month. Although I do always believe there are winners and losers, and that’s life. But if we are having employees that month, I believe that everyone is an employee. So yes, the CEO can win the award. Absolutely.

Fraser Jack 

And I’ll just throw my two cents within here and the appreciation of the month or the employee them I think, I think it’s great if you’re getting if you nominate particular people to then award that to somebody. Yes, it’s everyone gets a turn and nominating who they think should win the award. And then they get to give them whatever the thing is, and say why they’re appreciating that person.

Gordon Jenkins 

So we talk a lot about advising the services they give to clients, I want to talk on one thing about appreciation, thank you. I have my own business. No one ever awards me employee of the month, but every single year, I go out for dinner, and congratulate yourself for being an employee of the year. And this is the thing for solid intrapreneurs. But the other thing I do is every fortnight I have a date night with my wife, okay, between six o’clock and 830, she has her own resilience business, between six and 830. We switch the phones off, I take when I’ve got an Instagram a foodie Instagram page, I take pitches on it, but we don’t take client calls. But between six and 830. That’s a time that we invest in Asia that to say, I appreciate the support you give me the last couple of weeks, I appreciate you. And we don’t talk about this. But we talk about fun things that we’re going to do. So when we talk about appreciation. It’s not just about all the staff and clients. So it’s about our loved ones. But it’s also time to recognize our own what we’ve achieved ourselves as well, because sometimes we are our worst enemies that we don’t we appreciate everything else. But we never actually think back and go. Whoa, yeah, I’ve had a pretty good week. Yeah, let’s go celebrate. Let’s go and appreciate. Let’s gonna appreciate I’ve had a hell of a bloody week because of all the hard work I’ve put in over the last six weeks or eight weeks. So let’s so you don’t always have to be appreciated by other people. Sometimes it’s just as much to be appreciate yourself.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Well, congratulations on being Employee of the Year of the year. But that that look, I think it’s one of the things that you sort of skipped over them, which I think is quite important, as well as the fact that it’s in your diary.

Gordon Jenkins 

Yes. It’s non negotiable. It’s in my diary, and it’s non negotiable. I hate it. When people say to me, you know, going into Monday for shift the meeting, I’ve got another client meeting. Yeah, okay. Let’s just not do it. Yeah, but now go into the client. No, no, what you’ve told me is, I’m not important. You told me that something is more important than Don’t tell me you got another client. Tell me you’ve got a medical emergency. You got funny murders. They don’t tell me you got another client meeting or you have to staff function or something like that? Because it’s just devalued what I am, no one’s going to argue if you’ve got a medical emergency, because it’s sick. It’s got a bathroom at home. Just I was lying. But don’t tell me you canceled my meeting for another client? Because you told me that I’m not a value. Yep.

Fraser Jack 

Couldn’t agree more. It comes back to that. But But look, I think I think this appreciation thing is a really big piece. That In the previous episode of the podcast, I spoke to Peter diamond Teddy’s and we talked about the concept, again, at networking, of just having some compliments, and appreciation up his sleeve, ready to go. And having that little bit of preparation around that. And just going look, I’m walking into a meeting here was going to be for three or four people in the meeting, or where am I be, I’m just going to remember a couple of things that these people have done in the past. And if I get the opportunity, I’ll slip in the appreciation piece of

Gordon Jenkins 

meat is really important. So when you start a meeting, you say to people in meeting, like I really I know everyone’s really busy, I really appreciate your time here, the meeting schedule for an hour, I’m hoping to get everything done in 45 minutes. The reason we’ve got an hour is just in case, we got 15 minutes. So Billy, the 45 minute area, I’m going to call it a 45 minute I’m going to call it and we’re going to see what we need to do in those next seven or eight minutes. And what needs to be carried over straightaway. You are say you respect other people’s time. In this meeting, there’s nothing worse than having an hour and a half an hour meeting over an hour and a half. Okay, so appreciation is but also, also you’re setting the standards, right? You’re setting the standards by which you expect meetings to be held to. And it also means that when you go into meetings, people know you’re going into you’re expecting the same type of respect that you give in that. So it goes back to time management.

Fraser Jack 

They also it also brings me back to what you just said about your dad being Edinson coaches to walk up to somebody say thank you for being present.

Gordon Jenkins 

Thank you for turning up thank you for being present. There are no meetings I go in today. Unless there’s for medical reasons. I love mobile phones to be three use that. Now when I’m doing workshops, yes, I like mobile phones because I want to take a mobile you know picture for social media. That’s okay. But if when people start filling on the phone, I stop. Obviously, you got something more important today. You know, my time is valuable. If you don’t, my time is valuable. That’s an hour that I’m never going to get back an hour. You know, we get back. I’d rather go out for a cup of coffee and spend an hour thinking about my looking up meal mindset and looking at my own stuff. Worth sitting in an hour? Were you were you just where you’d rather be your mobile phone? No, because I have a sick Why? Now thankfully, Wendy’s better now. But I used to go to meetings. I said, I know mobiles are off. But my mobile is on. Because I might be getting a call from the hospital Tell me wife’s died. Right. So if it comes up on a private number, that’s why I’m going to get it. So I lay the expectations in that meeting. So you want to be recording? Yeah, I’m happy to be here. So what’s happening? Well, you know, she’s gonna have a double lung transplant. But you know, that’s all about also the network and about making things count as we’re going to make things work today, that’s going to be really quickly because I’m not going to get involved in all the BSD we were just going to do things that are actionable. So again, your time, your time, everything in so set the standards where you’re setting the standards going through None. None of this is rocket science. To me. Some of it’s very unconventional the way we think. And I think the way we think is because we’re tainted by a very traditional way of learning. And the very traditional way of learning is we go to school, we go to college, we go to university, we read textbooks, we parrot fashion textbooks into exam papers, we get degrees on the wall survey, technically savvy, but not very streetwise technically savvy. And this comes back to I want to know who you are know what you are. I take a good financial advisor, you got nice certificates on the wall. And if not, you’ve got some insurance that will cover both of us. So now I want to know whether I want to whether I like it, whether I’m going to actually pick up the phone. Well, I think it’s the one I’m going to introduce you to this one, I want you in my life. That’s what I want to know.

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Gordon, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you giving up your time to bring your unconventional golden nuggets of wisdom. Talk to us today. So thank you so much. I want to congratulate you too, on winning the award that you’ve just won or running with women and insolvency. I know that was that’s that’s a big deal. And I know you’re secretly very proud of that. And I think we should be publicly noted that it’s a very proud moment. So congratulations. Thank you so much. Now going if somebody wants to get hold of you and continue to continue this conversation, what’s the best way for them to find you?

Gordon Jenkins 

So my website is very simply, I am Gordon jenkins.com. So on there, they can find me. Social media, you just typing Gordon Jenkins or I’m Gordon Jenkins. And you’ll find me on LinkedIn. You know, we have a bald guy in a blue suit.

Fraser Jack 

So yes, professionally, we can find you on LinkedIn, with the with the with the odd blue shoes and the rubber ducks. Obviously, if you’re a foodie, and you want to be able to find you on Instagram, by the sound of it. Yeah.

Gordon Jenkins 

So so that’s it like and I’m, you know, anyone that’s listening, that’s, you know, some of the, you know, I’ve, I’ve listened to some of your podcasts before, and I’ve connected with some, some people that may, they’ve been on your podcast. And I’ve built up some fantastic friendships and relationships. Now some of the you know very well phrases on the back of that some great business opportunities. And the first thing comes from having a conversation. So I just want to put that if someone just wants to have a conversation, let’s start off and have a conversation. The worst conversation is a conversation we never have. So if someone just want to talk to me, you know, if I can help you without actually engaging, I’m going to help you.

Fraser Jack 

And I’m pretty sure some of the stuff that we’ve talked about today is very helpful for the listeners. So So yes, I think I stick in that idea. It’s a very, very appreciative of your time and I look forward to chatting to you again very soon. Thank you. Well, there you have it another episode of The X Y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack, and I’m joined by Emily Blanche. Hey him.

Emily Blanch 

Hey, Fraser. Jack, how you

Fraser Jack 

doing? I’m tremendous. Thank you for asking. It’s been another great episode. And we’re here to do another great shout out to one of the members of our

Emily Blanch 

community. Yes, we are. So today, I would love to give a shout out to x y member, Rob Wari, he kicked off a great discussion on active versus passive investing. It really came around his share of the SP fever report. And this kicked off some awesome comments, people adding in other areas or things places that they go to to find great research. Advisors were sharing their investment philosophies and their methodologies and what they use in their businesses. And other advisors were adding value and sharing some other PDFs and resources that they’ve used to support the research that they do for their clients. So thank you, Rob, for sparking a fantastic discussion. And thank you to everyone who got involved and really, yeah, made a really valuable discussion on the platform.