#245 Adam Crabbe – Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

advisors, client, people, advice, reports, financial, bit, part, significant, risk, planners, extending, perspective, fraser, financial advisor, track, provide, pursuit, financial planning, find

SPEAKERS

Emily Blanch, Adam Crabbe, Capital Group, Fraser Jack

Fraser Jack 

Welcome to the x y advisor podcast, a global community of financial advisors sharing and learning with one another to drive the positive evolution of financial advice. To get involved, go to x y advisor.com. Or simply download the x y advisor app.

Capital Group 

How can I find the stability needed for long term success by investing with the world’s largest active fund manager who oversees over 2.3 trillion US dollars worldwide, adapting and growing across the globe? With more than 340 long standing portfolio managers and analysts that have earned unrivaled access to the companies they invest in? Can I find a firm that values long term stability like I do with Capital Group? I can.

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack. And today I’m joined by Adam crab again, I Adam. Hi, thanks for joining me today. We’re here to talk about, well, quite a few different things actually. But really around the concept of client connection. And obviously, the company that you work with, has done a lot of research into this, of course, and what we might do is talk about all that research, there’s a white paper there is focus reports, all these sorts of things that I’ve had a look at into presentations that you’ve done on it. So thank you for joining me today. Before we get into it, I might just quickly start with you. Who are you? And why are we talking to you?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, so look, it’s fantastic to be with you. So who am I, I’m a risk strategy specialist. So I’m in a bit of an insurance guru, if you like. And I’ve been with Zurich for just over three years, I’ve always had a passion for wealth protection, and protecting people, you know, their finances, their family. And, you know, this particular client connection piece is really an extension of that, you know, one of the things that I like to do is try and find opportunities, opportunities, where if there is a bit of a gap, in terms of an offering something that could really enhance that financial advisor client relationship. That’s something that I really like to try and hone in on and make may come to life. So ultimately, benefits, not just the advisor, but the community at large.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, fantastic. Helping people. I love it. It’s sort of a shared passion of mine. So they’re very good. So tell us about the this piece. And obviously we did too, right? You did some research, when I say we because x y community was involved in some way, don’t tell us about the research that happened.

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, so we sort of knew instinctively that financial planners were doing a lot more than idsa just providing financial planning advice, which obviously is critical. But we’ve got a sense that there was a lot more going on. We sort of heard anecdotally that, you know, advisors were kind of becoming an extension of the client’s family in some ways, going to barbecues and weddings, even funerals, and we thought, Well, what is actually happening? What’s going on? And is that providing a broad detriment to the financial planning, relationship, and even the tenure of that client? And so we sort of went down the track of trying to really find out how much and to what extent. So yeah, so we were really fortunate to reach out to the xy advisor community. And what we found was quite revolutionary. Just the level of engagement that advisors having beyond that traditional financial planning mold. It was some elements around you at all, certainly, how much of it is what you’re doing is outside that traditional? And over 90%, Fraser was saying that, yes, their role is kind of almost morphing into things like coaching and counseling. And even with that, we thought, Well, what is it that is going on? Well, what’s happening? What’s what he talking about. And a lot of this then drove us into understanding that things like emotion, there was a lot of emotional interactions that was happening, which is we know was driving a lot of clients to become more forthcoming in the sorts of information that they divulge, almost sort of lets the guard down. You know, around 70% of advisors apparently now being told a secret by their client. And apparently, a financial adviser is the only person that this particular client actually divulged that secret to which my mind was blind when I found out like, wow, like that’s such a level of trust and this kind of about the doorway to prosperity. One of the The most common things that’s discussed from a non financial perspective was health. It was lifestyle, it was stuff happening outside of work, that really started off part of that the process to exploring this client connection and the research behind it.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of that, you know, the lifestyle financial planning. Obviously, I’ve talked about goals and values based advice for many years, really getting down to these What are, you know, some of your goals and values and passions and beliefs and the things that you like to do everyday that aren’t necessarily just about saving money, or investing money or spending money. Obviously, money has a small piece to do with it, because it’s all intertwined, but it’s really around looking at a client as a human being and saying, what are the things that drive you and motivate you to do so, you know, it’s been, it’s been a massive, you know, thing that I’ve loved to follow as well. So I just really resonate with that word, the secret that, you know, being devoted to secret.

Adam Crabbe 

Yes, it was incredible, just the notion that people are really quite open to talking about themselves who they are, and really opening that door to someone’s soul in a way. And you think about any other industry or profession, I just, you know, I can’t think of any that are like that. I mean, even, you know, we’re finding out now that financial advisors and knowing a lot more than even their own doctors, it’s far more than just health, it’s money. It’s its goals, dreams, wishes and aspirations, its income. And even from the XY advisor findings. It’s, it’s extending it to things like addiction issues, to conflicts with children to marital issues, which obviously have significant impacts to someone’s, you know, finances, but also significant impacts to their mental health, their emotional well being. And it’s, it was startling. But one of the things that we’ve tried to do is kind of capture and gravitate this data and make it and make it valuable in terms of how we approach that from a financial planning lens, from an advice value add. And that’s why we’ve come out with each of these different, not just the white paper, the focus reports. So it’s data into what it is that people are doing the sorts of things that is driving them to, you know, to work hard to provide for the families, and then the emotional, almost the therapeutic value that advise offers to that client relationship. And then practical tools of what advisors can do to implement change to use some of the insights from some of these new ways of thinking into their own their own business model.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And just from that, from their high level, before we get into the nitty gritty of the of the research, the idea of an advisor creating a financial plan, which is, you know, obviously around right now, and then projecting it forward into the future relies so heavily on that, you know, the human behaviors, the health or well being the lifestyle that if you’re not doing that, I guess my point is, I want to make it if you’re not doing that part of the process, then the financial plan is never going to be right, it’s going to be always going to just, you know, be derailed by that by something else.

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, that’s very true. And, look, I think, as we know, look, it’s probably stuff that advisors are doing instinctively. But it’s a case of really leveraging their value off that. So really opening up the discussion, and then that, in turn, is actually having significant benefits to that, that longer term relationship.

Fraser Jack 

pentesting Let’s start with the white paper, tell us about the white heavy, that’s the sort of the main piece of this.

Adam Crabbe 

Yes, it is, like a bit of a data junkie phrase. So I love the insight, I love the data. And when we understood or kind of realized that what people are doing from a non financial perspective was so critically important we, we sort of dug deep, and found some fairly recent government data, Australian government data, just on the sorts of activities that people are doing better, you know, recreation, hobbies, leisure. And from that, it kind of painted a bit of a picture in terms of what it is that Australians we love doing. I mean, you know, anecdotally, we’re such an active nation, but trying to find out what it is that we’re doing. And then coupled with that the mental health benefits, particularly as many of us, you know, come out of a COVID lockdown. You know, I’m sure there are many clients out there that just looking forward to nothing more than getting back to doing what they truly love to do. And, you know, we kind of know that it’s not, we don’t just love it, but it’s good for us good for our soul. But of course, there are risks inherent in what we do. And you know, even if it’s something as trivial as going for a walk some of this data and some of the research that we’ve uncovered is that there are actually risks in that. And what we’ve managed to do interestingly is quantify The different activities that people are doing, and overlay that with certain risks so that if an advisor was to chat to someone and say, Hey, you know, I’m thinking about taking up, you know, soccer or basketball or Rugby League, we’ve actually built tools that enable advisors to say, well actually look, yes, that’s fantastic. And here’s some of the insights into the mental health benefits, but it’s probably worth just discussing some of the risks and how they compare to other sports, or leisure activities or hobbies. And of course, that can then lend into that broader discussion of appropriateness, product selection. And, you know, if it’s something that the clients are comfortable and undertaking from a risk perspective,

Fraser Jack 

yeah, it’s, it’s certainly a massive piece in you do interlay, those, you know, those activities. And as we look at those activities, let’s get let’s jump into them, because some of them are a little bit more risk risky than others. And so and so you’ve gone into some of those activities and said, we’ll look at we really need to sort of think about what they can do not just obviously, from a, you know, a risk product point of view, because we’re not sort of doing that product today. But from a from a lifestyle. how’s this going to affect your lifestyle? One of the things that we need to think about from an risk assessment point of view?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, absolutely. And look at you, you’re 100%, right, I we uncovered part of this, this data research, we found that there was, you know, some of the the hobbies of people doing are quite significantly high risk. And so, some of the more common ones around recreational walking, fitness, gym, jogging, swimming, are probably some of the more commonplace type activities, you know, and some people listening, I’m like, Yes, you know, that certainly resonates with me. But when we look at some of the more common or perhaps less common type pursuits, things like push bike riding, even soccer, surfing cricket, and at some of these types of sports are actually quite high on the on the risk spectrum. And when I say risk, one of the things that we wanted to understand was, what are the risks of hospitalization that happens off the back of some of these events, because typically, those sorts of things are, are quite impactful. You know, suddenly people can stop work very short notice. And do they have, you know, liquid assets that they can get access to? at very short notice. Being able to articulate this information from a financial adviser to a client, we felt that the information just wasn’t there. But with some of the planners that we piloted this particular program, through, the information we got was that they felt it would be quite valuable to have access to something which they could use to say we’ll look Yes. Oh, yes, you do bike riding? That’s fantastic. But are you aware of the, you know, the chance of, you know, something happening to you? And what that risk looks like compared to say, simply going for a walk or playing netball? Or, you know, like I do the my pursuit is jumping on the back of a motorcycle. So yes, mine tends to be a bit high risk. But then having a bit of a bit of a playing field to articulate how do these sports and leisure pursuits compare from a risk perspective?

Fraser Jack 

And obviously, you did some work on the idea around cost of care and cost of recovery. Talk a little bit about that. But also, tell us your story around around your motorcycling addiction.

Adam Crabbe 

Yes. So look on the cost of care. One of the things that that particular program of work and look at wasn’t just me behind that, but someone I know, the x y family knows very well, Danny vissa. Amazing. So together, we really tried to answer that question as to what, you know, illnesses and injuries cost across Australia. And one of the findings from the cost of care was that in terms of the total cost impacts of the total health spend across Australia, injuries actually sat at number two, so they were the second most costly type of entity, like happening in Australia today. So that was, in a way part of the genesis for the client connection piece of work was to understand well, let’s just explore that injury sub segment just a little bit more. And that’s kind of led us in part to where we are. But yes, with with flying sort of situation and circumstance. You know, yes, there’s sort of risk inherent in everything. But around a year ago, you know, my leisure pursuit ended up seeing me in hospital for a spell. In fact, I was in a high dependency Ward for for a short period of time. So I was involved in an accident with only a relatively sort of low speed type accident. But I’ve since found out my orthopedic surgeon mentioned that they’re often some of the most dangerous in terms of risk to you know, to limb as it were. So yeah, involved in an accident. had about six to seven broken ribs. I shattered my right shoulder blade, my scapula, And was off work for three months. So this was obviously quite dramatic, quite painful. And, you know, kind of landed me in a situation of, well, how will I say, in this particular situation. And honestly, one of the great surprises off the back of that was, you know, despite the fact that I’m quite financially literate, obviously, I understand insurance products have been an average was that even in my own situation, despite the fact that I had great support in a family wife, I was getting physiotherapy care or speaking to GP medical specialist surgeon, as I mentioned, I felt there was something missing craser. And, you know, in my situation, and one of the things I found out afterwards, after doing some independent research was that it’s actually very common that people in situations where an accident happens, even illnesses have suffered is that they need direction, they need some something that, you know, GPS, medical specialists, even family and friends can typically not provide. And that is someone to keep you on track from a financial perspective. So really, one of the things that I felt was that and perhaps what was lacking in my situation was that assistance from my advisor, to help make sure that you know, money’s coming in, regardless of the source, whether it’s from an insurance contract or motor accident, claim, workers compensation, whatever the illness or or injury. And even despite the fact that something has happened in taking people off track from what was their financial plan or strategy, that the advisor is there to just kind of keep track of what you’re doing. So really, with the client connection piece, and what I’ve done here is include some of the ways in which a financial adviser can actually help, even if even if someone is not, you know, a client necessarily, seeing some of the positive planners are actually saying they’re actually getting referrals from people who weren’t, you know, their own clients, but purely for the fact that they actually they’re helping people from an advocacy perspective, it’s such a valuable resource that people have not only paying for that particular service, but willing to recommend people because it kind of lifts the ethical bar somewhat. But often, some of the planners we spoke to were saying, Well, how do you do that? What are some of the ways in which you can help people when something happened? Like, Surely there’s just too many people around, you know, medical people and family and friends? But, you know, the short answer is no, there really is a significant opportunity for an advisor to actually step in and keep people on track and make sure that they’re liaising with medical specialists, how is their recovery going their rehabilitation or plan to the undertaking, one of the great things that helped me was tracking my milestones. So everything from how many medications I was taking each day, in the early stages, it was around 20, to 25 different pills each day, one of my goals was to get off them as quickly as possible high taking tablets and things. So every week, I would just kind of, you know, jot down how many I could manage and reduce that. And, you know, that’s something I think the advisor can be party to as well, what are you on track with? What’s that looking like? For me, it was lifting weights, being able to hold a phone to my ear, I think it was around six and a half weeks before I could actually lie flat and sleep back in my bed. So it’s these often these little things around Well, what are those little progress? milestones? You know, are we on track? And is it something that is really driving someone and, you know, from an emotional and mental perspective, it was such a valuable thing to do, because I was able to track where I was, and how much better I was doing even, you know, almost on a daily basis.

Fraser Jack 

It’s, it’s incredible. So obviously, off the back of you at the community. That’s your personal story right now. Because you look at this in two sides, you look at from the personal story that you’ve been through in the, as you mentioned, the emotional and mental state and things that that helped you recover. And then you’ve got the medical stuff that helped you recover, and then you’ve got the financial side of it. So obviously, you’ll be able to see this, from the from the inside looking out as well as the outside looking in. It’s one of the stats that came out was 60, you were one of 60,000 other Australians that year that was you know, that was hospitalized because of their sports and leisure injuries. But I want to get into some of these ways to help because the you know, tracking the milestones was one way to help as you mentioned, what I think if I look around the country, I’ve spoken to a lot of risk specialists over time that that put a lot into that claims process, have a whole you know, structure and process around helping clients through that. It suits you know everything to with regards to setting some goals and milestones and in helping a client track along the way. It doesn’t necessarily involve a statement of advice from a financial planner to be able to help a client in this during this client process. Tell us about what you To see some of the other ways that advisors can help during this during this time.

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, that’s a really good point. And what’s interesting with a lot of the planners that we’ve spoken to, and not just off the back of this particular piece of work, but across many years, is really trying to find ways in which not only use the word capitalizing, but how some advisors are really transforming the way that you’ve advice off the base of the value added, they provide, particularly in that claims, or even non claimed advocacy space. So some practices of and I suppose taken stock on even some of the simple things they do. So, you know, the question that they’ve asked themselves and their team is, what what do we have in place, if a client or perhaps a client’s partner spouse was to call us and say something’s happened, you know, is it a case of, you know, like you said, You don’t necessarily need to jump into, you know, statement of advice mode, but easy, just making sure that they have the support that they need. Some planning firms have a claimed kit, something that they can just, you know, get access to, almost like a bit of a checklist for some staff. Because some of the advice firms, they’re in such, you know, rural regional areas that, you know, the staff themselves, really well known to the clients and the community. So they can actually take quite an active step in assisting reporting back with the client situation, in some cases, discussing with family members. So, there’s certainly an element to that. One of the fears, though, from some of the the advisors that were just sort of jumping into the stage was a fear that they didn’t know enough to be able to provide the assistance and support. But really, some of the leading advisors in the space Fraser and you may be across this yourself is that they’re not experts, they don’t need to be experts, they can rely on others, they can simply be that port of call, helping them direct, almost project manager in a way, you know, people are not feeling themselves, then helping them to direct them towards a network GP, a psychologist, a counselor, social worker, just making sure that money from the bank, making sure that they’re getting the help they need, is often those small steps, but really, really valuable ones. Just knowing that there’s that kind of care factor. And as we talked earlier, you know, clients are giving themselves really to a lot of advisors, particularly around that stuff. We talked about, you know, addiction issues, conflicts with kids, marital issues. So there’s almost an expectation that if something goes wrong, that advisors are there to sort of be involved. And it’s not necessarily a to a degree that requires that statement advice, that written record, but just to be there, to talk them through to make sure that they’re checking in. Even if it’s a five minute conversation once a week, or once a fortnight. It just provides such a significant difference to that planet client relationship.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I Well, I really like the term care factor, actually, that you mentioned. And because you’re right, there could be a fear involved in our Look, I’m not a therapist, I don’t want to get don’t step on toes, I want a bit, but I think we kind of are as planners, they are in a way, a therapist, and because just just by sitting and listening, you know, can great can great create great therapy for for the client. So I like the idea of using that kit, am I demonstrating that we care? Like is there a care factor involved? as does the client feel that we care because of the way that we’re going through this? But But you know, I think, um, you know, that’s really interesting, and putting some checklists around the, the concept of how do we, how do we hope help in all those areas? And, you know, are we checking in to make sure that, you know, the client’s emotional state or mental state or, or their, their other parts of their life is recovering and on track? So?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you, if if planners are looking for more, we’ve included that as part of this client connection work. So you mentioned the milestones. For me, that was significant. Some of the other data and research uncovered was, advisors should be talking to clients and saying, look, try and avoid making major decisions or big life changes, at least until you feel better. Even if someone is physically impaired, sometimes that can really translate to their mental incapacity. And, you know, maybe getting to people just to sort of focus on their, their recovery, even things like making time for regular exercise, if that’s at all possible, helping get people to a little bit back to normality, before making significant decisions, is often actually welcomed at a later stage. You know, well, you know, some of the feedback we’ve got has been client saying, well, we were so grateful because you know, looking back that we really wasn’t the right decision to make or wasn’t in the right headspace. So just just some of those small things can actually make a big difference.

Fraser Jack 

It’s interesting, so now’s not the time. In other words, we need to do some, you know, obviously, let’s say you’ve had a payout or you’ve got to make Now’s not the time to do it, we just settle down, we wait and then when you’ve you’ve mentally and physically recovered, then we chose long term decisions,

Adam Crabbe 

to take those small steps. One of the interesting facts I found was that, particularly with physiotherapists, it’s obviously a very physical type role, you know, manipulating muscles, you know, around 90% of the physiotherapists role is actually mental. So if, if their patients and clients are not mentally prepared to get better, it really doesn’t matter how much manipulation these physiotherapists do, it’s not likely to be as dramatic, you know, people need to be mentally geared up even for physical betterment, as it were. So, yeah, it’s really, you can’t underestimate the power of someone being mentally in the right headspace. Even for something like the physical repair that people and medical professionals actually work with.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I kind of feel it very much the same way about financial plans. I feel like gum, you know, 10% of them is that is the numbers and 90% of them is the mental state that somebody is willing to do the work because it’s all sets and reps, right? You know, you’ve still got to do some work to to implement it. Fantastic. So so as we dig into the, the white paper, obviously, we’ve got the concept around how you know that, you know, how these things will work together. And then we can go into some of the some of the items like, like we just been through and setting up some claims service. And one of the some of the other things that advisors can take away from the white paper.

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, so one of the things that we’re noticing is that, and part of the last of the reports the value beyond the SLA report that we publish, he looks at some of the ways some plans have actually made changes in the way that they’re giving advice, some has decided to sort of pivot their practice from the front end. So the way that they are engaging from a fact fine perspective. Others have actually use some of the information from an ongoing perspective. So what we’ve done in that final report is really provide a bit of a practical, or series of practical ways that some of the planners have actually decided to utilize the insights. So we really wanted to make sure that it wasn’t just about like the data and the numbers, while it’s interesting and useful. How you can actually make a change make a difference in your business. So that was certainly one in terms of that back office type approach. Others essentially,

Fraser Jack 

so if we go to so if we go into that, sorry, can I just dive into that. So show the practical ways, as you mentioned, some of them, some of them have implemented that forward looking thing in a new way of, you know, like rethinking their advice process,

Adam Crabbe 

correct? Yeah, absolutely. And even the remuneration for phrases, so part of dipping the toe into this kind of area. And actually, some planners that we’ve spoken to have done this from a pro bono perspective, just to kind of give them a bit of an upskill, in terms of what it’s like to interact with people that are going through sort of traumatic events, is that they’ve got process in place that they’re able to articulate their value added. And they have to apply a cost overlay for that. And it’s interesting to see some of the businesses that are doing that from a non claims perspective. So these are practitioners who may not be overly insurance savvy, and they don’t need to be because what they’re doing is providing that differentiation through the stages of recovery, rehabilitation, and being able to apply their own value in that framework. So, you know, some planners have actually shifted their entire business model to engage just on claims advocacy and non claims advocacy. Now, we’re not suggesting certainly other advisors do that. But you know, if they’re not utilizing their, you know, after claims, skill set, which for many might just kind of be a sleeper, we do see that as a significant opportunity, one, which could not only enhance that relationship, but actually provide a financial benefit to that particular business.

Fraser Jack 

Well, okay, so Well, yeah, check out the check out one of the some of the reports if you want to dive a bit deeper into that. Now, one of the things I want to cover off is the concept that just getting advice is actually a therapy.

Adam Crabbe 

Yes. Look, it’s true. It’s, it was almost one of those instinctive things which we kind of knew, but we wanted to find out just how much of a difference it makes. And the second of our focus reports goes into the real psychology of advice, and that’s what therapeutic value you mentioned. And what we’ve uncovered is that clients are more open, they’re more willing to divulge willing to engage and more receptive to To the value of advice. And what we’re finding is that the part of that psychology of advice use that exploring the non financial aspects means that planners are more ingrained in that kind of family or client network. And it’s extending into things like, you know, mortgage brokers and accountants, solicitors, because the it’s not just about you know, cash flow, retirement planning, it’s, it’s everything, everything that the client, the family, the spouse are doing, they want to, they want to include that advisor to make sure that they are maximizing just not not their financial benefits, that they’re almost there their life benefit, if that makes sense. So it’s, it’s a case of trying to extend the the benefit into great communication. So we’re finding even one interesting bits of research was that the value that the financial advisor is providing is actually having a betterment to the communication between husband, wife, or client and spouse like it’s, it’s significant, because it’s just open, it’s clearing the air. And, you know, money is such a, it’s such an important part of what makes up a family dynamic. It’s extending to different elements of that particular situation, some advisors becoming mediators between family and extended family members like it’s, it’s having flow on effects to other areas, some of which is quite, quite surprising.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. So I really want to dive into this sort of section because I think it’s really important. So part of the survey was was like a dive into the concept of how much time would a an advisor spend actually talking about financial advice? during a conversation? How much time was sort of spent with sort of non financial issues? Tell us about some of those conversations?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, it was quite startling it. Certainly in the early days, I think, you know, financial planning is built on, you know, that sort of financial strength, the technical knowledge, expertise, but really, that that is starting to shift. And it is extending into these sort of non financial areas. And it’s becoming, as you’ve alluded to, it’s kind of becoming almost a core part of their of the discussions that they’re having with with their, with their clients. But what’s interesting is their businesses increasing. So part of the the, the data we’ve got, when we sort of reached out and surveyed through the x, y advisor community, we found that, you know, 45%, of advisors agreed their business had increased, and 28% had strongly agreed that their business has increased purely because of allocating their time to non financial issues. Because it’s extending into there, really, what are the core values of that individual. And that is becoming a significant differentiator, because there are no other professions really, that engage in that non financial area as much. In fact, one firm we spoke to, they’ve aligned their business model with an accountability overlay. And what its meaning is that, even from like a cash flow perspective, they’re kind of checking in on their clients quite regularly, just to make sure that they’re hitting the milestones hitting the mark. And what they’re finding is they’re getting a lot of referrals from what I would call non traditional strategic alliances, like personal trainers, those that have a similar mindset around in a health well being countability. And they’re finding that there’s a similar profession that’s doing it from a financial perspective. So it’s, it’s one, which is starting to shift the way I think people in the community see financial planning, but also the value that they offer.

Fraser Jack 

Yes, this is a really interesting thing over the last few years, I’ve talked about the concept of, you know, the we had a we had a legislation coming talked about fee for service and want to get into the way that advisors charge for their advice at the moment. They’re moving slowly moved to the concept of fee for advice, and, you know, obviously, you know, someone’s getting financial advice. It’s what we charge for, when I look at all the different things. the roles of financial advisor plays, whether it’s, you know, therapy or goal setting on, you know, having track milestones, and, you know, the strategic financial advice, and then the product advisor, the two parts that really fall under the ESOP type conversation. But there are so many other parts that that advisor is doing, that they’re not necessarily charging for, because all the charging or the or the fees is locked up in that advice, and, you know, product advice and strategic advice around that conversation. So, if we think about that, from a point of view of how do we start charging for these non financial advice, parts of our business? How do we do it?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, it’s like it’s not easy, I think, for people who are really looking to ingrain In this in a cost element into their business, I would suggest starting with the financial, so, you know up. And I think too many in terms of financial planning, it’s probably a natural start. So is it a case of understanding more about the superannuation environment, for example. So, you know, if something’s happening to someone, can they get access to this of benefits, be they Tpd, or income protection, maybe extending that into, you know, compulsory third party or motor accident type claims. And in fact, the client connection, one of the things that we’ve done is we’ve developed some fact sheets, state and territory based fact sheets, because part of the part of the feedback we got was that many planners were really unaware of how state based and territory based matter Accident Claims work. So we provide a little factory to talk to, you know, who was covered or at fault drivers covered, what’s the tax implications. So it’s not something that they necessarily give out to clients, but something that they can keep in their arsenal, as part of their value add from a financial perspective. So, of course, there’s that which was included, even things like offset treatment, is becoming more topical. So if, and I know we’re not talking product, necessarily, but if someone has an income protection type policy, and something happens to them, and maybe there’s an entitlement to things like sick leave, or long service leave, or annually holiday pay. So part of the advisors working in that advocacy space are actually utilizing that as part of their offering just to talk through what their entitlement is likely to be based on the quality of their contract. And only if the policies inside super if it’s in a group super policy or outside of Super. So I think the financial element is probably a natural place to start. And from that, they can then extend their their value and therefore the costs that they can apply to that non financial elements. So it may be a case of, you know, being able to articulate Well, with our clients that go through these particular events, we reach out to them every month to two months, or every fortnight or every week, we liaised with certain providers. So just kind of being that conduit helping someone to project manage or direct them into a certain a certain professional and being the go to for any concerns, questions that that particular individual may have. It’s really interesting. And

Fraser Jack 

I think, I think they’re also there was a lot of information that advisors could add to the question sets, when in that pre space as well of trying to find, you know, like, when you having conversations with clients, are they doing what record? What recreational activities are they doing? in getting that information and things like? Are they doing cycling and soccer and sports? Or are they doing what are their activities? Talk to me about how you can think advisors can incorporate that into their practices?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah. Interestingly, the part of the feedback we’ve received is that it’s playing a an increasing role, regardless of age. So even planners that may have, say, a predominantly retiree database, they’re not typically like insurance focused or anything like that. They’re finding that they’re using the tool in that environment, because many of these people who are maybe approaching retirement, haven’t had time to do something, and then now entertain the idea of maybe I’m thinking of doing golf or tennis, and, you know, but you know, isn’t something that I should do? Or is it something that others are doing? And one of the things that we’ve built in our, in our sport and injury leisure tool is not just the risks inherent, but the participation rate across other people of that particular age. So, you know, potential advisors can now sit down to actually Yes, in terms of, you know, tennis, and for people your age, you know, there’s a certain demographic or percentage of people that are actually undertaking that particular pursuit. So that can actually help them again, from a non financial perspective, perhaps be able to build a social network for their activity that they’re undertaking. So we were hearing that that’s actually providing an interesting value add something which we didn’t necessarily think would be a value, but it’s one that’s opening up that greater engagement pace, once again. So yeah, participation rate, we’ve managed to break it down into certain genders and age groups, and across many of the different key pursuits and activities. So that’s kind of like a bit of a fun interactive tool that advisors can, can play around with

Fraser Jack 

it just on their phone, an interactive tool, where can they find that

Adam Crabbe 

setting? That’s a good question. So to get access to the tool, that central fact sheets, what advisors what you’ll need to do is reach out to your Zurich onepath contact the white papers or the white papers, the focus reports. We do have them available online. So if you go to an if I just give you the website address Fraser Sure. So just zurich.com.au forward slash the client connection, and you simply just, you know, click on the button on the right hand side that says, Get your copy today. And you’ll get access to, to the reports and gear for the additional tools. If you just reach out to your respective contact, they will make sure that they get access to that, you know, you

Fraser Jack 

mentioned reports as an as in plural. So there is actually the main white paper as we talked about, which is I think it’s a 44. On page white paper. Korean in there, then there are two focus reports as well.

Adam Crabbe 

That’s right. So the white paper we’ve called lessons in Malaysia. So we’ve talked through what are the pursuits that people are doing the benefits of doing that from a health perspective, but also the risks involved. The second report, the advisor focus report, which we’ve called the hidden therapeutic value of advice, really talks to the significant value that financial advice offers from that, you know, psychology and emotional aspect. So that was largely driven off the back of part of the incredible findings through the x y advisory community, but understanding people’s not just their financial affairs, but they’re, you know, they’re non financial, that the issues people are having the significant value, and improvements that people have with their lives through engaging with a financial advisor. And the third report, which is our practice focus report, which called value beyond the soI, really is the practical tools that advisors are doing the shifts they’ve done in the way that they are providing advice, and give actual examples of how advisors can implement some of these changes as part of their their day to day.

Fraser Jack 

Yep. And obviously, I’ll extend to numbers too. So off the back of some of those reports, I’m just looking at what a line in front of it that says, in a 50 50% of Australians receiving financial advice reported their mental health had improved as a result, and rarely get reported their family life was better. Isn’t it interesting, they these these benefits of financial advice that we don’t list as a as a benefit?

Adam Crabbe 

Absolutely. And it’s, it’s, it’s significant. And we from part of the trends, it’s only increasing. So it’s providing a significant differentiator to people’s lives for those that actually choose to engage with the financial planner.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, the whole lot better position, conversation comes up. And when I when I think about that, everybody always comes back to a financial better position.

Adam Crabbe 

Yes, but it’s a real it’s a lifestyle, better position. It’s there more, yes, financially prepared, but mentally, emotionally, their sense of purpose is more defined, like it’s quite significant. And look, if you haven’t read the papers, for those listening, I’d certainly urge them to pick them up, have a read and hope that provide a real value add to them and their business.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I feel like a practical off the back of reading these papers, and then doing something about it. Any business could be the scenario where you’re actually asking some, you know, qualitative questioning, before the client comes in around how they feel about certain stuff. And then and then asking those questions after they’ve received the advice and be able to track that improvement.

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah, true. Any effect some clever ways that some advisors are telling us they’re doing that is that kind of introducing that, you know, tried and tested boring, if you like, tech, find FDA, to the client. And this is how we kind of get the data, etc. But they’ll slide it to one side, and then just say, but, you know, tell me about you, what are you? What are you looking to achieve? What’s keeping you up at night? It’s those sorts of more open ended nonfinancial type questions, which then start the ball rolling, it’s all messed up, the fact finding becomes almost incidental. So it’s quite, quite incredible.

Fraser Jack 

So some of those questions, I’m trying to, you know, the answer I’m thinking is, uh, you know, on a scale of one to 10, where are you now? And then, and then be able to ask those questions after and get the show the improvement?

Adam Crabbe 

Yeah. 100% in and using almost at scale, you could ask them, you know, in 12 months, 24 months time, if we sitting here again, how can we shift that dial? What would mean an improvement of a six or seven today to make it a nine or 10 in 12 or 24 months time. And it really gets those clients and potential clients thinking about what it is that they’d like to do. And it’s actually having some practices, what we’ve understood is it’s really extending the factfinding journey from a single meeting, to maybe multiple meetings so that they can really gone out proper insights into an individual, which is obviously then transforming to better advice for that person.

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. Well, Adam, thanks for coming and chatting with us today. Really appreciate your time and sharing your story and your insights with us and, and obviously, some of the stats they came off the back of the export community.

Adam Crabbe 

been my pleasure, Fraser. Thank you, and thanks to the x y Advisory Committee for their assistance with the project.

Fraser Jack 

Well, there you have it another episode of The x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack and I’m with Emily. Blanche. Hey, Emily.

Emily Blanch 

Hey, Fraser, how are you?

Fraser Jack 

I’m amazing. As you know, as you know, I always say I’m tremendous. I was gonna say tremendous again. But believe it or not, hey, we’re here to do some shout outs The best part of the week for us. So who we’re gonna share that today?

Emily Blanch 

Yes, so a big shout out to x y advisor, le Ford ham for making her debut television appearance on the project recently. So if you missed it, Ellie took a group of millennials through a series of questions around how they’re engaging with their super in particular, and to demonstrate the long term impact the decisions they make today will have on their financial futures. It was pretty eye opening Actually, it was really great to watch and it just really highlighted the value of making smart money decisions. And Ellie really brought that to the table and absolutely crushed it and it also highlighted the value of what an advisor can bring to consumers into a client’s life. So well done Ellie there was so much love for you on LinkedIn on this and very well deserved was amazing.