#243 Marc Bineham – Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

advisors, people, clients, ifa, financial advisor, retire, years, elderly parents, helping, retirement, sandwich generation, book, financial, advice, education, super, consumers, industry, life insurance, money

SPEAKERS

Capital Group, Fraser Jack, Marc Bineham

Fraser Jack 

Welcome to the x y advisor podcast, a global community of financial advisors sharing and learning with one another to drive the positive evolution of financial advice. To get involved, go to x y advisor.com. Or simply download the x y advisor.

Capital Group 

What gives me confidence about investment decisions? rigorous fundamental research with portfolio managers focused on the long term, who looked beyond the spreadsheets to understand the companies they invest in from break room to boardroom, who know the only way to get a 360 degree view is to go around the world to get it can I rely on in depth research to give me steadfast confidence with Capital Group? I can.

Fraser Jack 

Welcome back to the x y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack and today I’m joined by Mark Burnham get a Mark Fraser, good to see you. Good to see you. Good to see you too. We’re actually looking at each other through the internet. But but not in real life because we both been locked down. Funnily enough.

Marc Bineham 

How are you? Good. Although this, this lockdown does seem to be a lot more frustrating than the last lockdown at least we’re prepared for or we realize this is going to be it. But um, this last one after being so many months in freedom. So supposedly, yeah, it’s a bit tough to take this latest lockdown. But anyway,

Fraser Jack 

we’ll get through it. Yeah, absolutely. Now tell us about you tell us about what you’re doing at the moment.

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, it’s all a bit. It’s a little bit strange phrase, it’s I’ve made the big leap, and I’m giving up my authorized rip statuses of advisor after 33 years. Not because of you know, there’s a lot of things going on and exams and education and just not happy with way the professional industries, I’m actually still much want to be an advocate for this profession and industry. And I pass my exam. So it’s, I can always come back to being advisor. But just so wanted, I’ve just turned 60 had heart operation in the last couple of years and just thought, well, I want one really big challenge, new challenge. And so getting into coaching, and helping others, maybe the many rather than the few. And so has had as in my COVID project, a new book. And so that’s just been launched in the last week. And so everything’s now moving towards that.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, exactly. Very exciting times. Now I’ve known you for a number of years, I really see this from the outside looking in as something that you’re, you know, your new transition towards, you know, retirement, but obviously really in the in the process of giving back in a lot of ways to the profession and what you’ve seen and not just to the profession, but also to the new and we’ll get into this a new wave or the next wave of clients for the profession. So now let’s start with let’s start with coming back and tell us about your as you mentioned, 33 years How did you get into this industry and and tell us about your, your, your journey through it?

Marc Bineham 

Sure. I it’s a strange entry. I think actually, for a lot of people before the education requirements coming in, there’s more of a standard pathway. Now for many who came into this industry, it was always just as an odd occurrence happening and mine was exactly that I was actually 1987 back July and had been an electrical engineer for 10 years and decided that I wanted to get into this booming share market got a job as the share market broker, but I just said Well, I’ve done this for 10 years. I’m going to go around Europe for two months backpacking. And while I was there, the October 87 share market crash happened so when I got back the job I had was actually not there anymore in the person in there actually sacking everyone so went around the corner and met someone who was a family friend of a family. And he was doing something called superannuation and all I knew about superannuation back then was it paid for my European trip and I left engineering after 10 years. And so and after about an hour I just asked him well what does he think where to go where this industry is going or what would he say is possible opportunities and so I was now unemployed, he said will actually come work for me and he’s been my boss and mentor for the last 33 years and chap by name a video ease and yeah, so and never looked back. So he was very much an old Elio a mdrt type person you have to remember back to three years ago, late 80s ANP national mutual was still at their height, High Commission products were all that you could sell. And he didn’t believe in that and he went into one of the first people I knew were to corporate super member benefits, savings plans, financial planning, as well as having life insurance is the core of any good financial plan. And so yeah, he taught me and I’ve never looked back.

Fraser Jack 

Wow, it’s amazing isn’t how will that the first position you get into and we always say we fell into it, right? It’s, it’s the common the common catch phrase. And and just so people know that alleyway is the life underwriters Association, which formed which was, which was the precursor to the Association of financial advisors. And so we do we fall into we fall into this, you know, this profession, and then we that sort of mold you, and how do you think that molded you that initial few years that sort of tells like this, you know, molded you very much around the rest of your career?

Marc Bineham 

It did, probably in a couple of ways. One was, you realize, I think a lot of people just fall into this, you realize how little you know about financial, financial planning and savings. And I realized I said, the only way I was able to travel around Europe was I cashed in my super after 10 years, I just didn’t know about it. And so having getting the education doing the courses, and he was one to make sure that I had a lot of education, and self learning. And, and I think that, you know, that’s definitely a one of the winners of the last 510 years is the amount of education that the latest advisors have come through. But what he also believed the education was was around, yes, you need to know your stuff. And as long as you feel confident, and I had my first retiree couple of 60, when I was only 30. So I said, Well, how Why would they listen to me, I said, as long as you know, your stuff that and they feel confidence and comfortable with you. That’s the important thing. So you need to know stuff. So education was very, very important to him. But for him, education was not just the technical, but also the soft skills, great believer in soft skills. And it was when I actually launched the book last week, I had a speaker, who was his existing client, retiree client now. And he was actually it is one of his first clients who then became my client. And Chris got up and spoke and actually said, I remember Eddie saying to me, right back then, and this is nearly 35 years ago. And you’re, and a lot of advisors will resonate with this. Is that okay? What do you think your greatest asset is Chris? And Chris said, Oh, well, you know, of course, I’ve got this house, it’s worth $500,000. I’ve got a big mortgage, but it’s worth 500. Right. Okay. How much do you make quizzes that are about 50,000? He said, Okay, so how much do you think you’re making in 10? years are all 500? How much are you making? 20 3040 years, you still think that house is your greatest asset. So you know, even some things never change. And that still resonates with me, as it did back then. And Chris still remembers that. The interesting thing was, he is in a wheelchair. And for me to get him income protection was one of the biggest accomplishments I do remember, he and his mate. And trying to get income collection for someone in a wheelchair is, is pretty tough. So yeah,

Fraser Jack 

I can imagine that, you know, those profound moments in a human’s life, and the amount of them that come out of a financial advice experience is, you know, it’s pretty high. It’s fantastic that you mentioned, Eddie, and that you you put praise on Eddie, because I also feel that you know, that obviously, that massive influence in your early years around having a really, really strong mentor that can teach you all that not just the product pieces, because that’s the I guess that’s the easy part. You can read them, you can read the they were probably custom information brochures back then. But the the PDS is of these days, you can read the information, you can get the knowledge, but it’s just having those that mentorship, I think is a really important part.

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, I totally agree. And I’ve no, I am hopeless at being killed accountable to myself. I’m a human being. And most people, you know, financial advisors, I always say 40%, maybe is the actual planning, but 60% is definitely the actual holding people accountable, even maybe higher, to make sure they reach their goals. And I just think a lot of doctors are the worst patients and I think a lot of financial advisors are the worst in holding themselves accountable. Like they do their own clients. And I absolutely believe anyone who was successful, has a mentor has a few mentors. There’s definitely you know, mentor slash coach, I suppose. And it’s know if Roger Federer is the number one tennis player in the world and he has a coach, full time coach, and it’s not as if that coach can make him more talented, but he holds him accountable. Make sure he does the training, make sure he does the drills and keeps him on that end. So you have someone like Roger Federer, Branson all these people have mentors and coaches. There’s got to be something in it and I’ve just never looked back and I do find But really, we have some young if the service commits or campaigns, there’s plenty of coaches that will, we can avail ourselves for, and probably less than 10% of advisors do it, and don’t have mentors or someone to that. And it can be a very lonely business, our business. And I think that’s nothing that’s definitely been highlighted through the whole world before COVID do. We had the floods, we had the fires, we had this, and a lot of the people, clients, the first people, they turn to other advisors and the advisors and nearly counselors and the mental health of our advisors, and I’m getting down definitely in for the path of what we did the IFA and the FBA we’re doing is that we realized and saw the amount of advisors struggling in that how, even if they’re part of a big license, they’re on their own. And I think that’s something as a profession, we definitely do need to, to do more for. But yeah, having a mentor, someone who keeps you accountable, someone you see a month, make sure you’re hitting your targets, make sure you’ve set a targets. Yeah, is absolutely imperative.

Fraser Jack 

It’s really interesting to note, because I think we all as you know, as advisors, we got into the industry in the first place, because we enjoyed helping people, you know, it’s very much the idea of, you know, helping other people. And, you know, sometimes you we really have to sit back and go, Well, you know, are we helping ourselves? You’re absolutely right. Yeah, I

Marc Bineham 

think. And I do think the old, I said, No way, the old, from beginning to the IFA, and having the older advisors, that’s the one thing that I’ve always been really proud of. And you know, definitely a lot of advisors, listening would understand that a lot of the older advisors told everything, you know, they there was nothing, they kept secret, this is what worked for them. This is what didn’t work for them, and you can have it. And the only thing a lot of these older advisors used to say was, when it’s your turn, you need to give back. So you know, the light, late, Michael Murphy, who was an IFA present in from South Australia always just said, we’ve been put on this earth to serve. And I’ve been that’s struck a chord with me. And so and I’ve always been very happy to speak to any advisors or any groups aren’t helping coaching. And if this is what worked for me, I was all my intellectual property, no problem about here it is, this is what worked. Because what we look after probably 10 to 20% of the market. There’s there’s a lot of market out there. And I do see a lot of other professions, accounting lawyers, when you go up there, and you see, it’s all their intellectual property, they don’t share they don’t see. And you see anyone who comes to our conferences, and they say, we can’t believe how much you guys share with each other. It’s fantastic. And I that’s one of the things I want to make sure our profession keeps as we move more professional, you don’t want to stop that collegiate aspect to our profession.

Fraser Jack 

Absolutely. Now, you did mention obviously, some of the serving that you’ve done with the Association of financial advisors, you spent well, 10 years, I guess we could say in three different positions on the on the board, not just in local committees, but actually on the board. Tell us about your your time with the NFA

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, I think it’s it’s a wonderful period of my life. It was 10 years over 12. And I took two years off one point. So I was New South Wales and ICT state director for six years. And I was the VP for two years. And then I was the national president for four years, the last four years until Mikey Nova became the new prison. And I suppose that was a really nice way of seeing how our profession has developed. Definitely, the IFA was a very much volunteer organization. And it has been for the whole 75 years. And but really, as an association, it needed to come into the 21st century. And you can see from the range of CEOs that we’ve had over the last that period of time there were people right from the Richard klippan right there. So who would who is bringing bringing people like myself and so many other you know, had 30% volunteerism, when I first started on the on the IFA in every committee and all this man still probably about 15 18% which is still great. And but you had to just get in and do it yourself. Whereas then yeah, we were able to bring in specialists marking general managers in different professions. And so I suppose it went from Yes, a small bar association body to a corporatized body. And so definitely with the last Phil kulen breadbox before that, there was definitely a focus on we need to corporatize this it’s the whole the industry the the government asik expect this and, and the good thing actually this we never Never was really a target. But just the way the FBI has gone and the IFA, the two organizations have never been closer. So and I think that that’s a great thing. We definitely have so much feedback from politicians and saying, Well, you know, the IFA comes from one point, the FBI comes from another point, if you guys Rahu represent pretty well over three quarters of the whole profession. Coming together, it’s a much stronger voice. And so definitely the last three years, that was an ame. Yeah, there’s definitely things that we may not agree on, philosophically, or whatever. But if there is something that we’re on the same page about, why don’t we do that together? And definitely the life insurance framework is definitely one of those where we actually had a joint committee and that met every, I think, virtually every second week. And that was, that was some of the stuff they were able to do with that, in dealing with asik. And the government has been terrific.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, I agree. Some of the things that y’all let me unpack some of the stuff we went through the the idea around getting involved in any association or community or whatever that might be really does reflect on, as you said, before, the the volunteers getting involved actually, people putting in some volunteer time and then and then what they get out of it is a lot more than just, you know, what you get for your membership money. For example,

Marc Bineham 

I always say you get back to things like this tenfold. And you do you really do. And they always said, Oh, well, yeah, we will take away from my work. No, one you become more efficient at your work. But the people you’ll meet the, as I say about, you know, one of those things I said that we found through the fire, the floods and COVID was how you were so alone. Well, people who are part of an association or comedian, something like that, they weren’t alone. They had people outside their own license out, you know, within the general community that they’ve made the friendships. People like just knowing yourself and what you’ve done, always, you’ve just put your hand up praise whenever there was anything needed. And it just, you just get to meet so many more people get to build your networks better build your friendships. And this is just fantastic. So the collegiate aspect of it is wonderful. But really, it was never, it never took away from my own work. If anything I was able to hear about for other people. How do you do this? You know, you’re doing this in your business? What are you doing, as I said, we no one was had a problem sharing. And it actually helped my business, that I was part of these networks and part of these associations. And at the end of the day, it does come out down to also when bofur came about where the government asked and asik asked for people to put in submissions, there was less than 100 submissions for Vova. You know, our 20,000 25,000 advisors. And it does show that there isn’t a lot of people out there. You know, they say, you know, we don’t want this, we don’t want that we’ll have you actually put your hand up. And so I do think putting your hand up. And if there are people out there thinking well do I really I know I’ve got all this education, and I’ve got all this, you’ll always be busy, there will never be a period of life. Four years ago, we had the Royal Commission, we were busy. So it’s definitely I’m just, I’ll get off my soapbox and sick but definitely volunteering, you will get so much more out of it. And that’s where it’s the IFA, the FBA SMSF mdrt, whoever it is, you will get more back than you than you put in because there are just so many upside to all this

Fraser Jack 

and agree more and and also the fact that it doesn’t matter what association or group or community group we’re talking about. I think everybody just gets involved in these groups, because, you know, they want to do the right thing. And then they’re on a mission and all these groups have, you’ve got the, you know, people all believing in the cause. Tell us about obviously, in the past, you know, associations have have come from very different angles and had very different opinions and, and haven’t always seen eye to eye and, and, you know, as you mentioned, over the last few years, I’ve been, you know, the associations have been coming together in a lot of a lot of ways. Different, you know, one voice and you know, from different people. Tell us about that transition, and maybe even what you think of the future.

Marc Bineham 

Okay, I think, yes, it definitely came has come from two very different paths. And it’s quite clear that, you know, it was just in the name, they’ll use a life underwriters association to adfa that it was in 75 years, the majority of that time has been life insurance specialist. There’s, and pretty well, for the first 60 of those years, yeah, really, up until early 2000. Life Insurance, people were specialists and they did not do super didn’t do investment. And definitely, there was a new breed of advisors who wanted to do, who came to this industry who wanted to do the investment who wanted to get into shares. He wanted to get into superannuation and just didn’t want to do that and At sort of the FPA, we’re very much especially coming from America. we’re promoting that side of it. So I definitely saw people who were saying, Well, I’m, I’m an FBA member, because I just do investment. You’re a risk advisor. So of course, you’re with the IFA. And that’s definitely traditionally where it’s come from. And there was pros and cons for both of that I definitely felt the ones who were getting toward risk or had risk as part of their, their offering, definitely got taught more about the care factor, because it’s bloody hard to sell someone life insurance, it just really is. And so unless you actually had soft skills, and had the care factor, and I definitely felt like from the 90s and early 2000, from the FDA point of view, we’ll know were more professional, where we look after investments and all that. And this is what we do. So we’re very much going down a professional accounting type route that we’re doing this. And where I really think it’s come together, has really ever been since the 2008. Global Financial Crisis. Funny enough. So this is just my own view. And what I saw from then, was that people and I actually see a bit of a trend now, which I must be concerned for a lot of people in their 30s 40s and 50s, who are advisors are doing a little bit similar saving some of the advisors talk to what happened in the 2000s 20 years ago, in that the share market was booming, just right up until 2000 2000 2000, people were leaving their jobs because I can do shares. This is so easy, I’m gonna make so much money. And advisors definitely at that point, were saying, I’m professional, I don’t really need to know you, I’m getting you the best possible return, you pay me because I’m doing that it’s and it was all based on performance. There was nothing there on relationship. So of course 2008 happened. And people’s portfolios dropped by 3040 50%. And all of a sudden, these people who didn’t have relationships with their clients, and the clients are saying, Well, what you say, you know, I’ve just lost 50% of my money. What are that. And so I think that was a big transition happened in America, I traveled to America at least once a year and go to conferences there and see what’s happening. That was a big turning point in America and was so reflected here in Australia, in that advisors really, even if I’m an investment advisor, if I don’t actually have soft skills and know how to build relationships. That’s the same, and it was the opposite for the insurance guys. We know how to build relationships. But everything is changing. It’s you needing to, you know, we’re used to be a two page customer advice record, you know, it was all changing. So his statement advices, everything was changing, CPD points. And so risk advisors were having to learn what we have to be do the education on not just insurance, but on everything else super, because insurance is under super tax, deducted tax, and everything like that. So there was very much emerging ever since 2008. For I think, two reasons. But they’re just complimentary. Definitely. When I see what the FBA, FBA, doing in the soft skills in the life insurance side is fantastic. What the IFA are doing in the investment side and suicide and helping educate. So you know, that’s why I see, there’s a lot of similarities. Now there’s more similarities than not. And so, if I was looking at this, I think if it was five years ago, could I still see the two organizations being separate? But just joining on mutual mutual points that they if they wanted to deal with the government on? Yes, I do, is I would, but now there’s two things that have happened. One is due to the whole fussier education are 25,000 visors, we’ll probably end up around 15,000. So you’re going to nearly have a third of your membership disappear. So therefore revenues are lower. The second thing is definitely insurance companies super funds, licensees banks don’t have the money they used to have. So from those two revenue points of view, it’s very hard for two major organizations to be able to provide the services that they used to or are, and so something I actually thought when the FBI built the single disciplinary body, which they built for the industry, and everyone was gonna be part of i thought was the start of something coming together. But now, that’s being not is taken out of our hands. I think, in the background, both organizations, I’d be surprised if they weren’t looking at this as a plan B. It’s just simply that you know, there’s got to be a point where finances revenues if they keep dropping and we just don’t know how far membership will really drop with this. And so you’re looking at maybe as a plan B, maybe it’s a Plan C or plan D. But definitely there’s too many things that are helping the membership with to be a priority. But it would be surprised if it’s not being looked at in the background in some way or another.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, it’s interesting isn’t this, there’s two aspects of this is obviously emotional history. And it’s very emotional, but history. And then you’ve also got the practical, the numbers, you know, I guess, I guess this is how we do financial plans, as you know, as advisors, right, it’s around looking at the numbers, but the emotional factors involved as well, and then working out whether, you know, the numbers aren’t gonna lie. As you said, you know, even it’s gonna get tighter.

Marc Bineham 

I think things change. I was there when I remember, you know, 10 2030 years ago, and hearing advisors talk about each other’s associations. And yeah, there was, it came, it was hatred, it was really, there was some serious issues people had with each other’s associations and over my dead body, so, but things change, circumstances change, and we’re, you know, what we’ve, what was happening 2030 years ago, if they lot, if they saw what advisors now had to do to provide a piece of advice for insurance. They’d be shocked to hear a 30 page SLA for a piece of life insurance. It’s just yeah, it’s just, it’s a very, very different world. And you just have to know, the deal. You dealt with these certain cards, and you just you just got to play the handbook. Fair enough.

Fraser Jack 

Fair enough. We weren’t ran out of that conversation about this, the the associations, thank you, by the way, thank you, for Mima, for all of the your 10 years of service and giving back to the community through those roles in the association work, by the way. Thank you. Thanks for the next part. I guess one of the things that you did do the though, that you were championing was the idea of how do we help consumer and obviously, we know, from a professional point of view, we have helped the top 10% of consumers who can afford to pay for financial advice. And then there is an underlying line of you know, a whole lot of people who really would benefit from financial advice consumers that will benefit that don’t necessarily, you know, have the the idea yet to go and pay for that advice, whether they have feelings that they can afford it or whatever might be, but going to a more of a how do we help this a, you know, 8060 80% of consumers that would benefit from financial advice? and let them know the message of of how financial advice works? And what what am I do for them. And one of the things that you were did for you there was looked at the idea of taking that idea to consumer through things like an expo and to tell us about those?

Marc Bineham 

Sure. It was both the FDA and the FDA has as one of their pillars, looking after the consumers, direct to consumers, and they do it in different ways. And one of the things we did do a few years ago, just asked for a commission. So some people didn’t like the timing, but I just thought well went better than that, when we’re getting so much negative press is to try and do something positive. And one of the things when we did do the consumer Expo, and there’s a lot of things learned and why things are done differently. But at the basic core of it, this meeting some of the individuals that just came in over those two days, and they weren’t coming in and talking to me, we’re talking to some of the other volunteer advisors about, well, what do you think about ETFs? And, you know, give us some share market tips. Or they were just ask some simple questions like, how do I start a savings plan? Will I ever have enough to retire on you know, I just feel like I’m going to have to work forever, and you hear some of their stories and just realize this is real Australia, this is middle Australia. It’s not what a lot of the clients we see day to day who can afford our advice. And I think that was the other thing that’s so much to the lobbying of the last four years and meeting politicians and why they all kept saying we definitely no, of course we want to keep advice affordable. That was from what was the face was telling us but from behind. You know, we were every ethic with raising their fees, compliance was getting more education requirements are getting more so everything advisor was facing is increased cost and increased compliance. So it sounds wonderful to keep advice affordable, but in reality wasn’t and these are real people. And I suppose it led me to doing some more research on this. And where we’ve come to is that s Verona put out stats, and one of the really striking stats that I saw was that they’re saying the average couples at retirement need $640,000 to his tire. It’s 50 570,000 if you’re single, but 640,000 they they’re making some assumptions like you’ve got your own home, but you know to most of advisors out there If I only had 640,000, by time they get to 65. Say, that’s not their type of client. It’s that’s just not that’s This Week, they can’t afford us. So I think that’s the same average. But what was worse is when you take it little bit further, what in reality that’s that was, as we were saying, was that what you need, in reality, the average couple at 67, retire with 420,000. And if it’s English is a second language in your family, it’s actually half that again. So there’s my course, there’s the thing that really for the last two or three years has really driven me to sort of say, How can we, whether it’s limited advice, or general advice, or something like that help those people who are in their 50s, and so on around that age, and you only get one chance to retire for most. And if you’re in your 50s, and you’ve only got 80 100 200,000, with a super, you need to make some changes, but these people will never come see an advisor, they won’t go see help n, most advisors will have to turn them away anyway. And that’s the sad thing, because I can’t, these people can’t afford that advice. So and I say, I should say two causes, the causes of people not retiring enough, in the second cause is that women over 50 are in some of the worst financial positions. Now, there’s a lot of great female advisors out there taking up that cause, which is wonderful, because I don’t want to have a 60 year old white guy, you know, on a cause, helping women over 50. And I get that so but I do think it’s one of the two big causes for people over 50. Yep, not retiring with enough and women who are financially in dire straits. And so those two areas need to be looked at. And I just thought, well, I could keep going while I’m doing looking after my retirement pre retiree clients, or do I really want to give this a go. And that’s where I basically said, from my time looking at that from the IFA, the consumers, and let’s see how we can help those in I should say, actually, if I take a step back, when I went out looking, and I was playing to write this book, it was a money for all ages. But I kept getting really good advice saying, right, what you know, and you know, I’m a 16 year old, I should write what I know. And it was where I’ve discovered these areas where that do need help. And if I look at the x, y, look at the millennials and all that, the amount of coaches, the amount of podcasters, the amount of people putting advice out helping other advisors, or helping consumer directly is wonderful. They just seem to be for the people in their 50s and 60s, there’s not a lot out there, direct, and I just thought, well, there was a niche that I could help. So I do see that the profession is changing, and that the people like financial coaches, and I know Glen James brought up a thing about you know, there’s our even our fin influences, and African looking and influence in Africa is looking at that. And I get that, yes, you need people who have got training, have education, to be able to do this, not just someone just saying, yep, I’m going to give advice out there. And I’ve got no experience or no education. So I agree with that. But definitely millennials x wise, there’s lots of people out there coaching and teaching, but just definitely in my age bracket, not a lot.

Fraser Jack 

And when you were talking about the, you know, the men and the men in suits, I think of our friend James Sutherland used to always say, you know, middle aged white men in suits, and we wonder why we can’t get to the general part of the population. Yep, totally. So that’s fantastic. So that’s really about the concept of, you know, looking at that middle Australia, as you said, but you’re really now focusing on and obviously, this is part of the book, which we’ll get into in a second. The the over 50s or 50 to 60 market, people that are approaching retirement, obviously, there’s probably a lot of fear in in there around, you know, their situation, what that might mean, time time running out all those sorts of things. So,

Marc Bineham 

yeah, it’s money. Stress is is a thing. It’s for all age groups, whether it’s millennials who have got 5000 in credit card debt, the number to keep you up at night moments that an ABC survey did recently was retiring with enough. Climate change was number one, but retiring with enough and that was across all ages. So that’s not just something for 50 and 60 year olds, but it’s definitely it. And I think a lot of advisors would find this. It’s surprising even with people who have a lot of money, there’s still fear keep them up at night type moments is definitely Do I have enough? And God for advisors, a lot of things they can do is actually show you them Yeah, do a projection and show that that they do have enough and just you could see the relief in this. You know, their shoulders start to relax in knowing that they’ve got enough to retire on is you can see it’s a huge concern. So I do see the stress and the fear around retirement. And there’s a lot of problems with the way people even picture it. You know, you How many times have we seen, you’re retired, which means you’ve got to walk hand in hand with your wife along a beach, or you’re going to play a mean games of golf. And a lot of people don’t want to do that they, they enjoy what they’re doing, they enjoy work. And it’s just as I said, we talked previously about this, that you just want to be in a financial position that you work because you want to, rather than forced to, and that’s it, if and so, you may even want to just reduce your work to three days a week, but definitely don’t give up. There’s so many people who are forced out at 60 or 65. And they’re just not equipped. Joe, Joe, Professor, giant Earl, who a lot of people in this industry would have heard that she’s seen as the head of the psychology department, Macquarie University, and she, she loves looking at the whole retirement and thought the science around that and she sees the four areas is in financial is one of them, but probably the least it’s your health. What’s your next big challenge? And your relationships? You know, if you’re, if you’re a couple, you may have not spent more than eight hours a day together. River and Joe now you’re going to spend 24 hours a day for the next for the rest of your lives. Are you actually prepared for that? Do you see retirement the same way? Is your health the right? You everyone’s living longer, but you want to be able to have quality, not quantity. And you do need that next big challenge a lot of retiree advisors who help retirees, one of the biggest thing is well, what are you going to do? Okay, it’s 6567? What are you going to do? And they just people haven’t been faced with that question before. And it’s usually a very different answer from the wife to the husband. And I should say to any advisor out there that you will get a lot of pushback, some a lot of still males, especially older males, oh, y’all come and see, you know, I, and you, as the advisor, need to say, No, I only see both, both of you, husband and wife. And it’s a no, no, I’ve got you know, I know everything you need, you need to do that. And you need to include both of them in the conversation because especially when it comes around retirement, it’s surprising how these haven’t spoken to each other about this. And and you have a box of tissue sometimes on that table as well. Because it can get quite emotional. But it’s, it’s it’s a really interesting period of life. And I think it’s great. I’m I’m right in the middle of that period. And I think it’s a wonderful period of life, but just comes with financial challenges. But people don’t think about retirement until sometimes it’s too late, unfortunately.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah. Now, I want to get into that, that idea of retirement because I know they I’ve heard other people talk about the concept of the baby boomers have never done anything the way that you know, their parents did. It’s always around the concept of the baby boomers create a new thing. So the concept of retirement, that we’ve you know, we hang on to as this thing that, you know, people start working now they retired, is changing. And obviously, a lot of that has to do with the fact that that boomers won’t want to do things differently. So tell us about what you think that the new thing of retirement could could be?

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, I think, definitely. And actually, if I just separate slightly, the baby boomers are coming to them, because the pretty words 1960 or people who are 60 years of age at the end of the baby boomers, so a lot of the people I’m seeing now are that next generation, and just above the x y generations. And unfortunately, the best name anyone can come up with is middle age, which is no one in my generation wants to be called middle aged, I can tell you that phrase. So that’s why even the book cover it says how to help people in their 50s and 60s, because you just can’t come up with a title from that. So baby boomer

Fraser Jack 

the sandwich generation

Marc Bineham 

I did it’s called the money sandwich after the sandwich generation because of and this is also a bit different to the baby boomers, who are now from they’re in their 80s to to the 60s in that a lot of those baby boomers are those people who are going on those, you see those cruises, those Danube river cruises, and you see all those people. And the the group in the 50s and 60s that I deal with the sandwich generation. They want to work actually they don’t want to do that. They want to actually travel and travel really well. But they want to work. It might be a new challenge. It might be a side hustle, maybe whatever it is, or they want to give back and help with charity or something like that. But they want to work. There’s no question. That’s the biggest difference between I see people who are in their 70s and 80s. When they were retiring, they wanted to just give up work and travel the world and just or do whatever but this generation definitely want to keep on working, but be financially able to take off a month here or take off two months there. And the sandwich generation really has come about in that this is the first generation that have elderly parents and this is sort of the Start with the baby boomers and the end of the war generation is that they’re living longer, and they’re living healthier. But they’re dealing and that’s why aged care is a booming because they’re looking in that lifestyle aged care is coming to that that’s what they’re entering into. So my generation are helping my elderly parents with aged care and estate planning. And they’re living, you know, to the late 80s, or 90s. And with the other generation, we’re sandwiched between is our millennial children. And children of all previous generations, probably by the time they left school started University were off. That was it. No, just due to whether you’re in Melbourne or Sydney or wherever city and house prices, people, millennial children are living at home through university. And Definitely, yeah, into the until basically, nearly marriage. So this this generation that I’m in, having to deal with, in extremes, this is very new, very unique. Because kids, these were previously the left home or elderly parents, unfortunately, had passed away. So and you also try and look at your own retirement. So it is interesting, and I definitely see anyone and I’m a financial advisor, I’ve met other financial advisors. And having to deal with an age, an elderly parent with aged care, is just a minefield, and I just anyone who’s I always just go straight to an aged care specialist, I know a few, you know a few. And because it’s just as a financial advisor, this is a, that’s a hard area to deal in.

Fraser Jack 

So what you’re saying is if, if you’re a member of the sandwich generations, then you’ve got elderly parents, and you kind of feel like you need to be supporting them with their financial efforts. And you’ve also got elderly, elderly, you’ve got adult children, who you also need to think you’re supporting, so you’re kind of taking on the role of three different financial aspects. So

Marc Bineham 

yeah, and I see see, that’s one of the things I want to do is after now that I’m stopped being a financial advisor is actually help coach people about this, because this is a minefield, and one of the things that advisors keep saying, when I speak to them, willfully if I was one of the hardest things I do is to prove my value and to charge an appropriate fee. Well, here’s a perfect circumstance for you, or opportunity for you. Because if you ask, you know, a traditional factfinder, for anyone in my sandwich, generation of age group, and you think, what are the three priorities? Yes, okay, I want to retire with enough money. Secondly, I want to pay off my home, and although probably the renovation to my home, and thirdly, have enough put aside for holidays. But in reality, and that’s a fact fine, just in doing but if reality, if you get to understand this generation, the most likely three answers that you will read is I want to be able to retire and understand your retirement as in, that’s an umbrella. It’s not just financial health. It’s my next challenge. It’s my relationship and all that. It’s definitely my second priorities, how do I help my millennial children get them the best financial starter life, I can see they’re already into. They’ve got gambling apps, they’re already got after pay, they’ve got credit cards. And yeah, it’s a sign anecdote. But when I was their age, we didn’t have an ATM, we had to go to the bank, we didn’t get to the bank before four o’clock on a Friday, we had no money for the weekend. So we got taught budgeting by default in my age group. So this age group, really, access to easy money is a real problem. And it keeps their mothers especially doesn’t seem to be the fathers that much, but it worries the mothers, it keeps them up at night. So if you can help that solution, provide them simple cash flow, cash flow solutions, and or direct them to some of the great podcasters out there or coaches or something like that to get them started. And then third priority is I don’t know how to have my conversation with my parents about aged care. And they’re getting they’re not as good as they used to be. They’ve had a four. And there’s all saying to me, the only way you’re going to get me out of my house is to carry me carry me out a box. And there are a lot of people have had that conversation. So if you can solve and help them with those three areas, you can charge whatever you want. Yeah, so realistically, but you can prove the value you have. And just if I can just on one last point on that phrase is unfortunately, the code of ethics has now brought in that you can’t because they’re worried about elder abuse and all this if you’ve got myself as a client, you’re not allowed to help their elderly parents. Now, that’s, that’s a tough call. Because if I’m helping that client, for them to have the trust and the value what You’re doing to me to introduce you to my parents is a big step for them to be able to then say, Okay, I’m not allowed to do this is tough now, what I do say is that you can still give general advice, you can still give help, you can still give that or you can, if they really do need proper financial advice, you can introduce them to someone else in your practice, and all those sorts of things. So you can still do that. So I wouldn’t be put off by someone who I’ve had advisor will know, the code of ethics says, I can’t do that, you absolutely can still do that. And you can put them on to help their kids with two things cash flow, and get them onto a level trauma policy straightaway. So you can do that you’ll have those clients for life, because you’re helping them the things that they worry most about, which is their adult children, and the elderly parents, as well as you’re helping their retirement.

Fraser Jack 

Yeah, hear it well said actually, in an interesting concept about the cash flows you’ve just brought up, then when, when the next generation is not dealing with cash. They just numbers, they’re just numbers. It just

Marc Bineham 

numbers. And I i’ve, I must have been spoke at the start of a staff day that Glenn here and Jessica Brady put on for their staff a couple of months ago, and Glen actually asked me at the end of that front of the staff and knew all the new advisors, do you still see this as an industry that’s worthwhile? And I absolutely see it as a, there’s so many opportunities. You know, technology will catch up, it will make advisor practices far more efficient. But if I saw the two biggest areas that people in your 20s and 30s and actually write through I see is cashflow Yeah, we help small businesses with cash flow, we tell them that God to help you get your business, right, you do need to understand your cash flow, your profit and loss, your expenses, all those sort of things, will you do that, and there’s so many programs out there that help people with that. And so many advisors now get into that, but I just see that as a boom market. Absolutely up to if you get their cash flow, you can then help them in all other aspects, you can get their investment going, you can get this super, you can get this super not in their default balance, you can get this super into the high growth and explain the reasons why you can get there those people into get the safety net of trauma insurance. It’s not Yeah, I’ve unfortunately had a client, the daughter of a client, her husband died at 30 have a brain tumor, it does unfortunately happen and having a level trauma, one will not have to have the conversations I’m having with my 50 and 60 year old clients when their trauma premiums are going through the roof because they’re on level premiums. So there’s definitely huge opportunities for people in the 30s 40s. And especially if you can get technology to make it faster, more efficient. Because the one thing I do see is I could see 15 clients easily when I first started, the average advisor out there is only seeing five or six clients or five or six appointments a week because I’ve got so much other education appliance and stuff. And that needs to change. You may not be 15 but 10 maybe 10 or so

Fraser Jack 

I find it really interesting that you know, financial product advice is the part that all the legislation and compliance and everything is around you know, are you recommending a financial product? And if so, then you know, what are all the conflicts and disclosures you need to make yet when you think about all the great work planners do from planning goal setting therapy in some way through to you know, professional relationships, networks implementing all the pieces around all the the accountability stuff, the coaching the mindset stuff that you went through. Surely, there’s there’s opportunities for someone, you know, obviously like yourself that gives away their their authorized representative status to you know, there are a lot of other areas to help.

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, I think, yeah, there’s a lot of times when, probably when fofa came out, and a lot of visors who were helping their clients get into their first investment property, for example. And that’s all we can’t do that now. It’s got to be a brand product, and we can only give advice around products. Yeah. And now you realize you can still you need to help your client otherwise they see you as well. You’re just trying to source a product. And if unless you can make money from the Superfund I have or the insurance policy I have you’re not you’re not going to be able to do anything. And advisors do need to be better at that they knew need to sort of say were providing an overall service and which includes exactly just said get the core basics right and once you got all the core basics right, they’re super their insurance, their debt, the cash flow, okay, then we look at next things well what are your goals, we go settings and all those things and it could be to get into their first investment property and you can help them with what the you’re not going to buy the property for them. But you can absolutely help them and talk them into this and get the savings plan and work out the cash flow on that and the tax effect. Never saw that. And then it’s the third thing. And so high things were what I what the relationship setting and goals and what you’re doing and advisors are in the best place for this? And I think there is and you can charge for the value that you’re providing that. And I just think, yes, the one, the more you get caught up in, it’s the product, or even as I see a lot of advisors doing, we’re talking about, as I say, nearly 2000, I’m seeing that similar trend, model portfolios, a lot of young advisors, all they want to talk about, look at these brand model portfolios I’m building for my clients, the clients don’t see value in that. That’s That’s a given. Yes, you’re supposed to get a good return. For me, you’re a financial advisor. That’s not I and I’m not interested in that. What’s the other value you’re going to provide me? Where’s the relationship building? Where’s the care factor? Where’s the, you know, I was told years ago, you need to have contact at minimum 20 times a year with your client. And that could be a newsletter is 12 times. But that means also phone calls meetings. And understanding that and I still find I’ve been saying it for 30 years. Do you know what your clients favorite coffee beverages or alcohol is, you know, there’s no use if you get a client coming to your house into your office, and they come in every six months or every year and every time they come in, you ask them, well, how would you? How would you like a coffee, or Yes, I’ve been telling you for three years now I like a cappuccino with one sugar, write it down on your database somewhere, just know that people want to feel like you know them that you care for them, that you, you really take an interest in them, their investments is separate. They want to know first of all, no. clients don’t care what you know, until they know that you care. Simple as that. And, and I say about the alcohol not trying to do anything. That’s a anti foe for anti this code of ethics code of ethics. But sometimes a client refers you somewhere, the next client and I’m a great believer in teaching advisors how to get your next referral. And I could go on for a whole nother hour just on that side of it. But the most simple thing is, if I learned very quickly on that I gave a client who referred me this lovely new client, and I gave him a bottle of red wine. It was a really lovely expensive bottle of red wine. He never drank red wine, he only drink white wine. He actually took it, he sort of appreciate it, but did say, you know, by the way, you know, I had to give this away cuz I don’t drink red wine. You feel bad? Because you think I should have just asked the question at some point. What do you like? And so let’s see. So I think there’s a lot of things like that, that I think advisors have the opportunity to prove their value, and it’s all about building relationships. And I do see that’s going to be now that we’ve got the education and that sort of the technical, it’s going to be learning the EQ not not just the IQ. That’s the next big wave.

Fraser Jack 

It is exactly right now you’ve written the book, The the money sandwich sandwich now that talks about is basically for like he said, those 50 to, you know, aged 50 to 60.

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, it’s to help those and there’s a, there’s a backup website that goes with that and has information on that. And it really as I said before, help those in the site, there was two reasons for a one was to help those who were never going to see an advisor or could afford to see an advisor, so that there was something and, and I was hoping I’m hoping you’re adding coach and speak about this in more over the when we can get out of lockdown. Yep. But the second thing was as a DIY book, it is the worst DIY book. It’s because everywhere throughout the whole book, it says, okay, there’s the basics. And now he gets into the more complex part. And by the end of the chapter says Yep, see how complex that is. That’s why you get a financial advisor. They help you with this. And as the whole last chapter is what to expect with getting a financial advisor, what that meeting will be like how to actually find one. So it’s, it’s, I wanted something because you see a lot of DIY books out there that say this is all you ever need, you’ll never go need to see a financial visor, well, this is the opposite. It’s a DIY book, but really don’t do avid, you got better things to do if your time goes to your financial advisor. But of course, there are some people who just won’t or can’t afford it. And so he at least gives them all the basics across from cash flow, debt, super investing, and so on, but also chapters purely on where you’re the sandwich generation and your elderly parents, you’re the sandwich generation in here. How do you help your millennial children? So helping all that and I just think from an advisors point of view, I love for any advisor to buy the book, read it. See it is and if it’s something I don’t think there’ll be any advisor out there who wouldn’t read into it. Oh, okay. That will help me with my next meeting with a pre retiree couple. Understanding how they think what are their challenges, what they’re concerned about what this leads to keep them up night moments, but I also Think advisors wanting to give a present to their clients. And so okay, it sounds like a bit of a pitch here. But it’s something that if there is very few things advisors have out there that you can be proud of giving to your client, which actually is very pro advice. And so I’m definitely will always want to be an advocate for the benefits advice, which this book does. And there’s a section on the front page open up. So if you want to write it your own personal message on there, you can do that. Or if you want me to sign it, I’m very happy to sign it for your client. But it’s Yeah, I just think it helps. Definitely advisors helps their C and D type clients, it helps them to even their even their top clients give it to them, because all it does is reinforce the value they provide to their clients.

Fraser Jack 

Yep, fantastic. I was actually going to just say that exact thing, that it would be fantastic for advisors to give to those clients in those in those demographics, whether there, and it certainly does encourage those clients to then come back and spend some time with a financial planner or financial advisor going through and creating something soon. So thank you, Mark, how can people get hold of that? Or check out their website? What’s the name of the website,

Marc Bineham 

it’s the money sandwich.com. Simple as that.

Fraser Jack 

Fantastic. And you are also working with planners in developing those relationships, skills.

Marc Bineham 

Yeah, there’s definitely some practices that I’ve helped where I’ve just gone into their practice itself, and I might have six dozen advisors there, and I will just speak to them. And there’ll be talking, it talks them in two parts. One is the about the book, in that sandwich generation and and and how to understand that what their challenges and how the so as an advisor, you can provide more value. But secondly, it’s all those EQ, not just the IQ side of it, just as I said about that, I always thought that the best way to get a new client was to get from the last client, and how to build and get them to introduce your new client, how to build referral networks, how to do all this. And as I said, that EQ not just the IQ and love speaking about that. Any way I can help advisors, I will now have time I’m now an unemployed, ex financial advisor after 33 years raise.

Fraser Jack 

Well, fantastic, Mark, thanks for coming on and sharing your journey with us. It’s been amazing. And obviously, as I mentioned before, thank you for all the giving back. You’ve done throughout the industry in the through the associations, but also even now get the giving back you’re doing through the book. So really appreciate it. It’s been fantastic. It’s been fantastic to talk to you.

Marc Bineham 

Thanks, guys and appreciate the opportunity.

Fraser Jack 

Well, there you have it, another episode of The X Y advisor podcast. I’m Fraser Jack, and I’m joined by Emily Blanche. Hi, Emily. Hey, Fraser, how you going? Amazing. It’s always a pleasure to chat to you at the end of these podcast episodes. And we get to do a really cool part of the week for us is to do the shout outs.

Emily Blanch  

Yes, let’s do it. So today, I would love to give a shout out to x y advisor and legend Kathy Kay, it’s so she got on the front foot with the upcoming changes to income protection that’s coming down the pipeline. And she wanted to summarize it in a way that would be easy for her clients to understand those that have income protection already and those who don’t have it yet things to think about. So she put together a document and then shared it with everyone in the community and said Feel free to use it and share it with your clients. So super collaborative is really a part of that brains trust in and sharing your ideas and IP more than anything. super helpful. So thank you, Kathy.