#17 Terence Tobin – Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

clients, financial planning, people, financial planner, journey, fee, pay, louis, terrence, ideas, business, align, important, advisor, commission, appointment, bit, meeting, months, terrance

SPEAKERS

Terence Tobin, Louis van der Merwe

Louis van der Merwe 

Welcome to another episode of financial planners, South Africa. Today I have Terrence Tobin. With me, Terrance is the financial planner in chief at rich ideas in Johannesburg. I got that correct. He loves financial planning and has a passion for financial planning. And I’m so glad to have you here today.

Terence Tobin 

Thank you. It’s an honor to be on your podcast.

Louis van der Merwe 

Brilliant. We’re going to have a great discussion today a little bit unpacking your history, what you’re up to now, how you’ve grown your business, how you’ve brought in new people, and the journey through that process to Terrance, give us a little bit of a background of how did you get into financial planning

Terence Tobin 

that goes back over 20 years, and back at school and learning Business Economics and accounting and trying to figure out how to apply that to life. And learning how that applies in day to day business. And watching people around me that were very successful. And sadly, in my family, that wasn’t the case. And I didn’t want to repeat that cycle. A second job out of school, I worked at a company that taught people how to invest on the stock market. Now, at the time, that was pretty easy, because the market only went up and you could buy any share with a dot and a week later, you’d like doubled your backs. So and I wasn’t too challenging. But in those conversations I would have with people is saying that equities is an asset class. Yes, it can make you money. But this is not the Holy Grail. This should form part of a plan. So please see our financial advisor, four years of saying that I was like, Well, why can’t I be that guy. And that’s when I started looking into options to get into the industry. Because at the time, that’s what I called it an industry that’s now changed for me. It’s a profession and a passion for it. And I joined a discovery net PCO in 2008. And it was a wonderful place. I enjoyed it. It was fantastic, great team of people. But unfortunately, the chap who ran that net co was the old school policy smos and the first week I was there. We had training in the boardroom and he says the first thing you do in a client meeting is check their budget. Well that makes sense. He’s as you check all the expenses, check the income sheet, the disposable income, and Louis this is where it freaked me out. He says you then match a life policy to the disposable income. And I was like wait a second. Like why would a 29 year old need a 4000 Rand a month life policy and I was there for a couple of months and it just would often clash because of that reason because you know how I want to do financial planning not sell policies. I got an opportunity to jump across to fnb at the time. So I joined them in March 2010 as they were preparing for the World Cup which was fantastic. And it was an amazing place and it really was and they actually did embrace financial planning. And I spent seven years at fnb, but this it was always the not to sell things to offer clients financial planning. And in many review sessions with area management. They will go well Terrance, you had 27 appointments this month, but you only did seven deals. Oh, dude, you know, you’re not doing too well. And I’m back. But none of it hold on. I saw this chap, we helped him figure out how to pay off his credit card. I saw this one and we gave them ideas on how to save for education. I did good work. Yeah, they say but your good work doesn’t pay the bills. And Louis in my second last year, they had an opportunity to do fantastic business assurance. It was an amazing opportunity, great meetings. And the client at the time turned around in one of those sessions. It was for homeowners in the business. And they said we’re happy to proceed, we will pay but strip the commission from the product that will pay it in full but invoice us and I was told by my hiring manager. It is not possible. You have to get paid the commission and I’m like well surely it makes no difference. If the insurer pays the commission or the client pays the commission, it’s RANS and scenes and in my mind if the client paid as well we’ve got zero colbeck risk so it’s actually even better. And that’s when I started like okay, this is not working and I started looking at perhaps it’s time I’ve outgrown this corporate entity and the consistent drive for selling new things to people. Some of the people at fnb in financial planning were exceptional financial planners, I was motivated and inspired by so many. Unfortunately, there were a few old school guys that if it moved, they needed a policy, and they didn’t go home that day unless they sold a policy. And I just I don’t get that like it didn’t even make sense to me.

Louis van der Merwe 

Yes, this myth of kind of good financial planning is more products.

Terence Tobin 

Yeah. And it’s so much more than that as you and I know. And that’s when I started investigating other options. And whilst I was there, because I didn’t want to be a bank broker, so I had client evenings, I had newsletters, I started, you know, differentiating myself back then a little bit more complicated getting brand to sign off on it and legal and you know, all that kind of good things in a corporate environment. And I’m, I need to do this on my own, I need to now do what actually excites me. And fast forward to today, four and a half years later, we have rich ideas. And I absolutely love what I get to do every day, help people with a planning and now that I’ve had clients for almost 14 years, and many have been with me that long, you know, the magic really starts happening in your 345. Like they start seeing those really great results. The consistency comes through. And I’ve had the opportunity to continue to learn and develop and give others opportunities within my business. Yeah,

Louis van der Merwe 

Terrence, what a journey. And it’s something that we hear so often, you know, it’s the frustration with how the financial planning profession used to operate. And by and large still does. I’m wondering when you when you reflect back, and you talk about these brand new opportunities in the way you differentiate yourself, tell us a little bit more about what went into that, like, what are the things that that you felt was really important to you show as the Terrence Tobin brand,

Terence Tobin 

it was that I’m not here to sell you something you don’t need. I’m not here to sell you something that I perhaps don’t have myself. And that financial planning is so much more than just a policy, or just another investment product. It’s understanding who you are. Where do you want to go? What do we need to do together to make that happen? And sometimes that’s not only financial, it’s being someone that people can turn to, to talk to, as they’re developing their business growing in their career, starting families, sadly getting divorced. And it’s who can they talk to that’s been with them for many, many years that knows a lot of their journey, and can just be an accountability partner, or a sounding board.

Louis van der Merwe 

So it sounds like this idea of partnership was really important from the beginning. And how did clients respond to that to potential clients? Like, what were the things that they were saying at that time,

Terence Tobin 

I would often say to them is I’m not here to do business with you today, I want to be your partner for decades, I get so involved in helping you design and develop your financial plan, because there’s no one size fits all. And then I actually want to see this thing through. And I want to make sure that the goals we set and what’s important to you, that we achieve it and I always use the wheel language, because I feel like I’m with you on this one. Because it’s so important to know and understand that if you’re going to trust and confide in someone with your money and your financial future, that they are with you in their journey. And when you need them, they are there to help you. And that’s what I’ve striven to bold and to create and collaborate with my clients.

Louis van der Merwe 

Also this concept of, I guess, delayed gratification from an advisor side, but at the same time you needed to put food on the table. How did you balance those two for the people that might be already struggling with that saying, Okay, I know that I need to build long term, long term relationships. But at the same time, I need to feed my family and how do you find that balance?

Terence Tobin 

Louis, that’s a long journey. And you’re back in those days at the near cone f&b. Obviously it’s sales driven. And you take commission and commission is often thrown around is such a dirty word. It’s like oh, you get paid commission. It’s how we get remunerated. Let’s not be unhappy by it or be embarrassed by it. First and foremost, has always made sure our clients knew and understood what they were paying, how much they were paying, and why they were paying it. This I do still today sell products. It’s not that I’m not not selling life insurance and investments, etc. But we’ve migrated from that environment to fee based financial planning, where we have that session with the client, we understand what is your expectation, what is your need, what is your requirements? How much time are we going to spend together, and we build in a fee for that, so that at no point you feel that we’re having a conversation, that my agenda is to get you to sign a piece of paper at the end and the conference As I’ve had recently because of that has been astronomical. But Louis, it’s a journey. So four years ago, when I then started rich ideas properly and left fnb, I transitioned from 100%. commission, to a 50% Commission on risk products, and the rest is an annuity. And it was irrelevant how much that was. I mean, some deals, it was two grand a month. Others It was 300 grand a month. But I explained and showed clients that this is the cost for doing business upfront and for working with you and helping you etc. And this is the cost to continue looking after you and servicing you. And it did have a big income impact on me, thankfully have a bit of an emergency fund as we should. But yes, revenue does take a dip, and over time, and it’s probably two, two and a half years. There is now no upfront Commission on any product whatsoever. And on many products, there’s no commission at all. It’s fee driven via an invoice paid by the client.

Louis van der Merwe 

Yeah, and I think we get so stuck in the mechanism that what you’re saying is that maybe the mechanism is less important. But the client knowing what at what are they paying? And why are they paying that is probably more important. Over the last week, I read a piece that spoke about actually increasing your fees, because that helps clients to commit to actually implementing and taking you on this journey. So I’m wondering why like what your response would be to that.

Terence Tobin 

When you say that, Louis, so first of June, I changed my option to have a first appointment with me, they are no longer free. Okay, you don’t get to see your dentist first appointment free, you don’t get to see a professional first appointment free, we can have a 10 to 15 minute phone call. That’s cool. Let’s have a quick chat. See, if we’re gonna gel, you want to meet with me that first appointment is a cost, how will invoice you and you will pay it prior to that appointment. Otherwise, I will cancel it. I have had a number of people sign up. It’s very scary to do this. And I just want people to listen, especially if they’re in this transition phase. Guys, when I first launched fees, I proved myself every time I had to say I had a fee. Because it is terrifying because the market knows they pay for advice. They just don’t know how they pay for advice. And now, since I’ve implemented this cost for that first meeting, my word people respond to those emails, immediately they send me information immediately. I’ve had people send me a three page Word document of who they are, where they are, what they got, and what they want to talk about. Like everything was just dumped immediately an hour after they booked that appointment. So it is exceptional. So nobody expects financial planning to be free. They just want to know what they paying. And then what will they get in return for it is their value. And one of the hardest parts of my journey with setting up rich ideas was to design my value proposition. And when I’m going to tell you are going to pay 1000 Rand to work with me. Why is that? And what are you paying for?

Louis van der Merwe 

Yeah, so kind of being clear on on that value, position proposition and also positioning. It sounds like you know, when you saying I’m implementing fees, that actually the benefit to the client was a lot more time than the benefit your pocket actually. But, you know, we might feel like I am doing your client a disservice by not charging for this yet any other profession charges for the services. So you no longer have a chemistry meeting you have a paid meeting from from day one. And then how do you position your service to clients during that first meeting?

Terence Tobin 

salary? I’m always an open book. I tell them they can ask me absolutely any question they want to know about me my business and the journey and what we’re going to go through. I also tell them that first meeting, we’re not going to talk about any products. And I’m not going to give you any financial advice because I can’t, I will not talk about your money until I know who you are. What right do I have to talk about your money unless I know who you are. And it makes no difference to me if the client has got 100,000 Rand that they want to learn how to invest? Well, they’ve got 100 million Rand, my fee is my feet. It doesn’t it’s not linked to income. It’s not linked to occupation. It’s based on what they expect out of their journey. And in that first meeting, we spend a lot of time understanding each other. We how we got to this point, why they feel they need to talk to another financial planner. Where do they feel that financial planner dropped the ball? But then I throw that question back at them and ask them where did they drop the ball? Because it’s not always the plan or the advisor that didn’t do something? And what are they wanting to achieve? And one of those wonderful questions is should we work together? What do you expect and what do you feel will make this successful and they need to articulate that and Lewin I had an interesting conversation with a couple last week who are retiring in three years time, her expectation is for the next three years, I’m going to be able to choose the best investment fund to grow the money as much as possible. Immediately. I’m like, well, you’re speaking to the wrong guy, because that’s not what I do. And her husband packed up laughing. Howard, why is that he goes, because he says to me, if anyone claims they can do that, they’re a charlatan. And I was like, I went to high five you, but we can’t do it through a laptop screen. But that’s exactly it. That’s not the value we add. And it’s not something people should expect.

Louis van der Merwe 

It’s almost like pre empting in a one of the problem areas that can come up and saying, Okay, let’s talk about this before the relationship starts. So that we can agree on what it is that my role would be? What are the things that are non negotiable. So you’ve said, you know, you’re not going to be the one that’s picking the best performing fun, what are the other things that have come across your table that you had to say, No, I’m sorry, this is not what we do.

Terence Tobin 

That’s interesting, it often comes down to investments is I had a client go, I will pay you more than your asking price you’re trying to do in the field you want to charge, but it has to be linked to the investment performance, we’ll review it every year. And you can take a cut of that performance each year. And again, I’m like, that is not the way this is going to work. And also, for a number of reasons, it’s impractical. It’s obviously not tax efficient, and I cannot control the markets. And if you feel that is what you require from a financial planner, you are going to be sorely disappointed with every single person you talk to. The other one is the managing the expectation of the relationship, that we’re not a call center, you can’t get hold of me every minute of the day. Because I look after many relationships. And I’m quite proudly state on my website, then I’m a family focused financial planner, because family is so important to me and time with my daughter is critical. And Wednesday afternoons, I have the joy of taking her to swimming lessons. And I’m not available for two hours, because we’ll chat in the car, we’ll have swimming lessons, we’ll come home, we’ll talk with etc. I am not available. And I make that very clear. And the right clients love and respect that. And I’ve had many say that because of reasons like that. That’s why they want to work with me. Because what I say is important to me, is actually what is and I presented and projected going forward.

Louis van der Merwe 

While tiryns you’re so clear on the family values and where that sits into what’s important to you. How did you go about structuring that? Was that something that was always there? Or did you go through a process to say, this is how I’m going to position it, and this is what’s important to my life.

Terence Tobin 

So I knew what was important to me, but I often couldn’t articulate it correctly. And in 2017 and 18, I worked with two different coaches in South Africa, both with a focus towards financial planners that helped me create my ideal client, create my values, my value proposition, and get comfortable with the fact that now I’m a fee based planner, I am transitioning into fees. And Louis, one of the bits of advice I was given was forget how much it’s not important. The next new prospect you meet, whenever they ask you to do tell them it’s going to cost 500 Rand 1000 Rand it doesn’t matter the figure, get comfortable with saying you charge a fee. And I will never forget the meeting that to keep it short. Client heads particular needs. We did our fact finding our discussion was an hour and a half session. I said I’m no problem. I can do this. It’ll be 350 Rand, because it’s about two and a half hours of work I need to do. Now that’s a joke. But okay. 350 bucks. Yeah, but terrines, my financial advisor at Liberty doesn’t charge. So that’s very interesting. Then why are you talking to me? No, because he also doesn’t do what I want you to do for me. So I bought now we need to understand this. So you have a need that’s not being fulfilled? I can do it. But you’re not prepared to pay 350 ran for it. No, I’m not. Well, unfortunately, we can’t work together. I close my file. I’m like, Well, thank you very much for your time. And I never heard from him again. Now there was a million Rand investment on the line. So the old school would be like, Oh my goodness, you just lost a million bucks. But I was so super proud of that. That I stuck to my guns and that was what my charges. And the next person. I was now a little bit clever. And I was like that’ll be 700 grand. They paid that invoice the next day. And since then, I’ve been charging fees and Louis, not every single person will pay it. They say they won’t fee based planning. It’s all shared. It’s all disclosed there is never a surprise. So I never invoice post an event. It’s always that’s what you want to do. That’s what all costs Do you accept and there’s many that don’t do it. And I’ve spoken to a number of Financial Planners that want to migrate. And I had one way, she positioned it to two different clients both declined. And she says fee based planning will never work. And if two knows is gonna derail you, I’m very sorry for you, you’ve got to embrace the No, and this is who I am, this is my business. And that’s how I operate. And if you want to work with me, you work with me in these parameters.

Louis van der Merwe 

I love that you said you have to embrace the no and you know, to is not a big enough sample size, you need to look at a bigger amount of of clients. They often talk about the close ratio, right? So the percentage of prospects that become clients, like on average, what what would you say is a good target in a fee based practice where you want to find that balance between not being too cheap, but also not too expensive? where clients say, Yes, I want to work with you. But also some of this or no, hey, maybe I can afford working with with Terrence all my need is not that great to substantiate the fees?

Terence Tobin 

It’s a very interesting question. And for me, my closing ratio, and I’m going to have to say this, and then back it up, is 100%. For the people I want to work with. Because from that first meeting, we see if we want to work with each other, and our position that saying this is always a good fit meeting. And from that meeting, if I’m willing to quote you to do the work, I want to work with you, however, those that actually then engage and mandate and they now work with me, probably around 80%. And I’ve been told by a couple that my fees are too cheap, especially by clients with me during the journey, they were like, no, this has now gotten too cheap. And by two or three other IFA is that charge fees, again, going, but you’re too cheap. I kind of feel it’s at a good price point. And it’s something you alluded to earlier, Louis, I’m not here to get rich off my client today, I want to build a multi decade relationship, where Yes, I’m going to make money off you and I say to people, but I want to add more value than what I charge you. But those first few times, sure. It was probably like a one in four, where they would be like, yeah, okay, I’ll think about it, I’ll get back to you. Oh, you know, and often they would say to me, but it’s so simple country, just do this, I’ll pay the commission. And then I explained commission, and I explain our pullback risk. And I explained the premium adjustment, and by building commission into the products on the life insurance, or the investments. So for me, it’s always disclosure in education. And it’s amazing how many people once they know and appreciate that my fee becomes a non issue. But once they’ve committed and agreed, and I’ve sent off that invoice, every single invoice is paid.

Louis van der Merwe 

So it’s not rushing into the planning, and then finding a surprising Whoa, this is how much you’re actually paying. It’s saying it’s agree what we can expect from this journey. This is how much it’s going to cost you. And if it’s a good fit, you know, we’ll figure out a way for the fees to make sense. And for it to be mutually beneficial.

Terence Tobin 

Absolutely. And that’s always what it’s got to be. And I say to them along the journey. If you feel I’m not living up to your expectation, even though we’ve outlined it at the beginning, tell me. But I’m also brutally honest, I’m going to tell you to. So if you tell me a particular goal is important, and we have a check in three months later, and you’ve done zipped towards that goal, I am going to crap on you. Because you told me it was important. You’re paying me to hold you accountable to what’s important to you. So I’m sometimes get a bit blunt, and border on that in your face. But that is what I feel you’re paying me to do. And I do it with love and care and respect. Because, again, if you’ve paid me to offer your service, if you’re not going to let me offer the service, should we be working together? So why is there now a disconnect? At every single meeting? I have that first meeting to now understand the expectations and are we a good fit, I learned better ways of asking questions, and getting clients to engage so that they know exactly what they’re going to receive from me. What we’re going to expect from each other, obviously, are summarized that all in an email afterwards with a proposal so that when they come on board, there’s 95% of the time we’re well aligned during our journey together.

Louis van der Merwe 

Wonderful. There is like now our clients on board, they know that your family comes first you’re there to serve them. How do you like what other limitations have you put in place to make sure that this client stays on track, but also doesn’t take up too much resources within your business? I love the fact that you said Wednesday afternoons is a no go like what other restrictions have you put in place,

Terence Tobin 

Louis, I’m working on those. So at the moment, I have a problem is if you message I will reply even if it’s a Saturday afternoon. And I’ve been getting better at learning how to put some boundaries in place. Because some things yes are very important to you as a client. They’re just not very urgent at the time. So 100 Sunday afternoon, wanting me to change your beneficiary details on a policy is not going to happen anyway until Monday. And part of my onboarding, is to explain to them that I am here to help with your financial planning your admin related tasks, I have to support people in my office that are there to help you. So it’s that continuous education. But I want to be my clients go to guy. So I’ve said to them voice note, email, phone whenever, if I’m not available, because I’m with someone else, while I’m with my family, I will always respond to you, at worst case, 24 hours,

Louis van der Merwe 

okay, so just being clear around when it’s going to happen, and saying, hey, please am available, but I’ll channel it into into the right area and get get it sorted for you. That’s very, very valuable, because I think oftentimes, we just want to jump into, into doing it right, and you get so busy with tasks that you shouldn’t be doing. I want to talk a little bit about the team that you’ve built around you. And you’ve recently expanded, like, how did you go through that journey.

Terence Tobin 

So I’ve had a wonderful partner in my business, she joined me as we started. And she has been with me now for four and a half years. And she is my two IC, so she helps me with every aspect of the business. But thankfully, we have grown fantastically well every year. And things that we started putting in place four years ago, three years ago, excetera have been coming together, it’s kind of like an investment with compounded growth, you see very little the first few weeks, months year, but eventually it goes. And we’ve now gotten to that point where Yes, from March of this year, I’ve added two more financial planners, and another headman support person. So we’ve grown from a business of two to a business of five. And I feel very humbled and honored to be able to do that, considering our economic climate. And the times we find ourselves that I’ve got a platform that I can allow others who align with me. Many advisors have approached me saying they want to join. And Firstly, I’m like, Well, what are your values? People don’t know, what is your value proposition? They don’t know. So well. What are you going to bring to the table? Oh, I sell 50 policies a month? No, thank you don’t find you that you’ll make lots of money offer split? No, thank you don’t want you. My business is not about making as much money as I can have lots of people, whether they are staff, or whether they clients, I’m not in that game, we must be here for our clients, we must be here for the success, and what’s important to them, will get taken care of as a byproduct from that.

Louis van der Merwe 

Wonderful, I love that and kind of that concept of not hiring rainmakers to come and generate more sales in your business. It’s a product of how you show up and what you what you deliver, jumping from a small team, you know, more than doubling, I’m sure it had came with its own headaches, like what are the things that you would advise a business owner to think of before they expand the team? What are the things that they should be thinking of, and putting in place before then happens,

Terence Tobin 

make sure you have capacity yourself to look after and support those people. It’s a very long onboarding process, especially for existing advisors to move from one FSP to another, and to be able to explain and help them and guide them through their journey in that process, because they will experience an income drop. And it can be exceptionally demotivating. It’s also which we are developing because as you said, This growth kind of happened overnight, is some standard operating procedures. It’s a collective where we all work together. So everyone is my teammate, or my colleague, we don’t have a hierarchy, because we will all help each other. And that’s critical as part of our onboarding process is if I need help our phone, any admin person or any advisor, and they must do exactly the same, so that any client over time that works with anybody of the rich ideas team will experience the same journey. It’s not to take away from an end financial advisors individuality, because we all have our uniqueness, and how we interact and engage. But there’s certain basics that must always be met. And this is an experience that I would like everyone to experience. And that’s what we are doing. And they’ve joined knowing that they’ve joined knowing who I am and my value proposition and what I do, and it’s now to share that and pass that along. whether right or wrong, Louis, I do this as a collaboration. I don’t do this as a boss telling you what to do. So we have a team meeting, we design documents together, we design processes together. Yes, ultimately, as the key individual, I sign off on it, and all Make final tweaks. But everyone must bind to the process and the flow so that we all can do this together. Yeah, so you’re crafting

Louis van der Merwe 

this journey that an advisor and an administrator and the client would go on. So does that mean that less of your role is spent with clients?

Terence Tobin 

At the moment, I would say 70% of my time is with clients and 30%. So 70%, in my business 30% on my business, I never want to lose what I’m passionate about. And I’ve made it very clear in our team meetings, my core purpose is financial planning. But I’ve now gotten to that point where I need to now look after my current client base, I’m not looking to grow and expand, I want to help my team grow and expand. And I’m now exceptionally selective of any new clients I take on, we’ve got to be cognizant of the magic and the honor of getting a referral. So I don’t ask for referrals. I never have a second debt, I feel if I do a good enough job, you will recommend me And better yet introduce me. And where I get a recommendation or an introduction, I will work with those people. But I’m very selective now on who are onboard as a new client, we’ve got to align, I’ve got to see the journey is going to work for both of us to remove as much friction as possible, if it’s not somebody that I can work with, but they would fit within our rich ideas, philosophy, our introduce them to the other two planners in the business. And all three of us say, why don’t you interview each of us independently, and find your right fit, because we all work together. So it sounds

Louis van der Merwe 

like you’ve created this ecosystem where someone can come to reach ideas, get help with their finances, know what they’re going to be paying and have a consistent journey. They aren’t you do quite a bit, you’re quite vocal on their social media platforms, and you have a podcast, you’re active on Twitter. And definitely I’m sure that generates new business as well. Talk us a little bit through your marketing strategy. Is there a strategy behind it? Or is it just Terrance creating content for the love of of sharing,

Terence Tobin 

I don’t have a plan. So that’s one I’m working on Louis. So it’s engagements I have with clients, it’s trends I see in the market, it’s news related items. And that’s what I use to create. I don’t have anybody that manages my accounts, I do this myself, every message, every podcast, every video, whatever is done is me, I’ve written it, I’ve done a drill engage with me, I keep it authentic. So what you see as my written word, or as my podcast is what I say and what I do, as myself, I do have ideas, I do have campaigns that are run from time to time. But nothing is pre written and sheduled. It’s all live and on the fly and as we go, but it’s always authentic. And I will always stand by whatever message I’ve put out there because I believe that to be in the best interest of the person reading or listening to that message.

Louis van der Merwe 

And that’s so wonderful to hear that you’re saying that you’re not overthinking this, because often times are too easy to say I can’t start until I have the perfect plan in place. And what you’re saying is create authentic content, it will resonate with someone and you’ll start putting a voice out there and you start building your brand and you see rich ideas popping up. And I’m sure clients also resonate to that, Louis that’s

Terence Tobin 

a couple of things on that. Which has happened over time, is when I thought I’m gonna do this podcast Firstly, what am I going to say Am I just more noise that’s already out there. And one of the coaches said to me but Terrence it’s the way you say something that will resonate with a person. So and it’s still on my channel because I haven’t taken it down because if your first release is perfect, you waited too long. So my first probably five podcasts are rubbish, there’s crackle, there’s noise, there’s an echo, but get going, just get started. And there was one person that reached out to me, he’s now a client. And he says the reason he reached out to me is I spoke like a South African as if he was talking to me at a Bri. And I said something was a CAC idea, a really bad idea on that podcast. He was like, right, that’s my guy. And he says, You stopped listening, you booked that appointment. And that’s how we engaged. So you’ve got to be who you are.

Louis van der Merwe 

So what you what he saw on the box was actually what he experienced as well. And that alignment, you know, you don’t have to have a written down strategy. As long as these things are aligned now what like what you can expect and what you’re getting is the same if that differs widely. If that guy came in, then you wore a suit and you went through a corporate planning process. It would probably not Have resonated with him as much.

Terence Tobin 

And I think he’d be sorely disappointed if that did actually happen. So, you know, there was a chap that I spoke to and got a couple of marketing ideas from. And from that meeting, he says, Listen, Terrence, you need to be the Nando’s or financial planning, because that’s your personality. Now, don’t be shy, go and do it. So I embrace that. And that’s what I do.

Louis van der Merwe 

I love the Nando’s of financial planning. And for those listening, that might not know what Terence is talking about the Nando’s is iconic for the way they advertise very tongue in cheek approach and direct. So that definitely sums up their ads and, and your approach there. And so I want to talk a little bit about, you know, maybe maybe the more difficult times, you know, because you’ve been in this industry now for two decades. And I’m sure that there’s been some, some hiccups and some pitfalls and some unhappy client. Is there anything that comes up that you might want to share with us?

Terence Tobin 

There has been and it’s interesting, I’ve gone through many cycles in the markets and with clients and journeys, and moving brokerages is obviously very disruptive for relationship, they do get quite concerned. I love and value and appreciate any feedback, especially if there’s feedback with room to improve from a client. And if they’re going to do a broker change, I respect that. Because we no longer aligned for whatever reason, and where I’ve dropped the ball, please tell me because I don’t take offense to it. That’s how we’ll learn and grow and develop within my business. In the first few years, God wasn’t always easy, because I didn’t know how to align expectations. I didn’t know how to ask the right questions, obviously, being in a sales environment. So you know, you would take the marketing blurb your consultant gave you from the company concerned. And that was it, and you never interrogated. And something I started doing many years ago was now asking lots and lots of questions. So if anyone has ever been with me in a workshop, or one day might ever be with me in a workshop, I’m the OIC that’s going to ask that presenter 37 questions, because I want to know, and I want to interrogate because you have to unpack everything, not just sell the sizzle. But I’ll also explain that I’m aligned to where you going and what you’re doing. So I’m in the same journey. And obviously now global crisis last year, recent one with obviously being COVID. And markets going down 3040 50% wherever we are in the markets. I only had two phone calls of clients going, Okay, I am concerned, what should I do? One listened and did nothing. And two months later, was very happy with himself, because it was his decision, obviously. And the second one sadly, didn’t listen, cashed out into money market and two months later, is still upset and actually hasn’t done anything yet. Because now the markets have run. So it’s a bad idea to buy again. So it’s being able to have those courageous conversations, and sometimes difficult conversations with people believe in yourself and your ability of what you do, because financial advisors inherently want to help people, the good ones, want to help people want to see them better off, be open and honest and share that with your client that we’re going through this journey together. If you’re worried about COVID, I promise you so am I, if you’re worried when the markets are down, so am I, we have the same fears, and I will share openly with my clients. And that is cemented my relationships. So Louis, you asked earlier, what’s a good closing rate, etc. A rate that I look at is my persistency. And in 2020, I had one leps clients that are with me, stick with me. And I will take a pat on the back for that because I believe we do good work. But I feel we align and I take on the right type of client. And that’s why I feel that persistency is virtually 100%

Louis van der Merwe 

Thank you for that tyrunt. I completely agree with you. You’re aligning your clients with these long term visions that we preach all the time. And the piece that you said about the concerns that the client have, we have the same because we’re not robots. We’re worried about the same things. And inherently through confirmation bias. We tend to attract people that think like us, as well. So how do you challenge that with enrich ideas to avoid this kind of concept of groupthink being worried about the same things and being triggered by the same things like how do you balance that within a team,

Terence Tobin 

I engage with my team almost every single day. And I want to know what’s going on. I want to know what they’re struggling with. I want to know where I can help them. But I also push their buttons. So working with me, I rip you out of your comfort zone and we throw that thing as far away from us as possible. Because if you stick within that comfort zone again you attract the same so if you want to excel And if you want to grow and you want to develop, you can’t keep doing the same stuff we used to do for the last 10 2030 years. And a chap that joined me recently, and I’ve had to explain that to him. What he’s seeing today is not that this is not how I started out in 2008. So please don’t take that as well, I have to be like him today, because you’re going to set yourself up for failure. I want to set you up for a massive success. I am not anybody’s ceiling and rich ideas. I am here to catapult all my team. So as an example, the lady I spoke of earlier, her name is Salome, she joined me four and a half years ago, three days a week, half day as an admin person. Today, she is my business partner, operations manager and financial planner. And she wanted that journey because she wanted to study as it doesn’t have to be financial planning, pick what you’re passionate about. Obviously, I’d like to align with people that want to stay with me, either in the business or as clients and service providers that we align. And we can make multi decade relationships. And if we don’t, let’s have a chat. And if I energies don’t align anymore, let’s discuss that end. If we need to part ways, that’s great, and I wish you well. But we need to always go back to managing those expectations. So I want my team to challenge me and they do, which is great, because by no means am I a guru. But there are certain systems and processes that work. And if we’d like to continue to grow as we have and develop and do the good work we do, we need to align those resources together.

Louis van der Merwe 

That’s brilliant. I love this concept of continuous growth and saying, you know, I want to catapult you into this ultimate Korean vision that you have catapulting rich ideas into the rich ideas of the future, what are like, what is that vision for rich ideas that you have at the moment, Lee,

Terence Tobin 

and I say this, and if any of my team are listening, they probably gonna laugh, I don’t want a massive FSP I like that we are now five people. I want to create opportunities for other advisors that want to learn how to do fee based planning. And whether they work in rich ideas or not doesn’t matter. So I’ve got two other advisors, they work at other fsps. And I’ve been mentoring them for the last year, 18 months. And it’s terrifying for many, and I get it I was there. Like I said 350 grand for a two and a half hour work, you know, do work. It’s crazy. But we’ve got a start, and they just don’t know who to turn to. I will never give up financial planning. I absolutely love it. But I would also love to help create that change that we need in our profession, to go away from this sausage machine policy sales, to do financial planning, and actually see lives improve. And that’s what we do at Richard is. And that’s what we want to help others to do. And we are busy working on one or two things for that. So watch out for us next year.

Louis van der Merwe 

errant. This podcast is all about the positive evolution of financial advice. And what you saying sounds like you are bringing in financial planning into a new era with new ways where there’s a different market segment that you can service and through different fee structures and it’s it’s wonderful to see your passion for this profession. You call it and if people want to reach out to you, Terrence, what’s the best way for them to get hold of you?

Terence Tobin 

Terrance Tobin dot zero j or rich ideas dot zero delay, and I’m exceptionally active on Twitter. So follow my handle at Terrence Tobin and let’s chat.

Louis van der Merwe 

Thank you very much Terrance. I thoroughly enjoyed that. So thanks for being here today.

Terence Tobin 

Louis. Thank you, him for your good work and this amazing podcast. Let’s continue to make Be the change for our future financial planners. Absolutely.

Thank you.